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  1. #91

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    You get the service Disney pays for I guess.
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
    -Dr. Strange

  2. #92

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Damn Techskip, that's some good info. It adds credence to the side that claims "Pay peanuts, get monkeys." I had no idea things went down THAT bad. I don't get the feeling too many people work as a CM expecting it to be a lifetime 40+ year career, but I am pretty sure everyone comes there expecting a fair shake. That medical benefit issue sticks in my throat.

  3. #93

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    Lead and Trainer rates when I left had just changed. The original rate for Lead was "top rate +$1" which was an incentive for younger CM's who hadn't made it to the top rate mark (usually you hit that ceiling within 5 years since the cap is about $10). Trainer if I remember correctly was "top rate + 50c", again an incentive for younger CM's to step up to the plate.

    During my time there that changed entirely. Disney backed out of the "top rate" part and instead the new contract was just an extra $1 or 50c. So someone now taking on the extra responsibility as a Lead made a whooping $40 in a 40hr shift... someone as a trainer made a whooping $20. Obviously that discouraged a lot of experienced individuals from even applying.

    Moving up is pure politics, as it is at any major corporation. People make trainer, people make Lead, but only a fraction make it above Lead to a salaried manager position. Salaried for the most part was brought in from outside the company. But my friends who are salaried complain just as loudly about the low pay. Many of the better managers have moved on to greener pastures.
    .
    Haha, at my old job (not for Disney) I was "promoted" to lead, I worked my butt off, always sweating. My manager told me I was the greatest employee he had in years. Um, lead, making just over minimun wage. No raise. at least they get raises. The people I supervised made more then me. I got a tiny raise later, still made less than everyone else. But I for stayed for another year, working my butt off. Because I'm loyal and work hard. I'll admit, I'm not the standing around type. I can be a robot (obviously).
    Before I was adocating for people having fun one the job, but I had quite a bit of fun working my butt off, when there were no customers I would talk with my coworkers, while I worked. When they started standing around talking to me while I worked, I moved on to a new section so they did. So, actually, people can have fun while they work. It just depends on how you look at work!

  4. #94

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by fifthrider View Post
    Damn Techskip, that's some good info. It adds credence to the side that claims "Pay peanuts, get monkeys." I had no idea things went down THAT bad. I don't get the feeling too many people work as a CM expecting it to be a lifetime 40+ year career, but I am pretty sure everyone comes there expecting a fair shake. That medical benefit issue sticks in my throat.
    In 98 when I first started a 5 year pin was a dime a dozen. A lot of people worked like crazy to pick up CR25 and get benefits because B status was at roughly the 2 year mark. In 2000 B dipped to roughly 1 year, but you still had a very healthy A and B population. When I came back in 2004 it was a lot more difficult to find a 5 year pin. They were around, but not as common, and the 10 year service pin was an endangered species. In early 2005 Disney changed the nametag to say "class of" and the year you hired. By the end of 2005 so many people had left that they changed it to "hometown" because Disney was embarrassed by so many low numbers. Guests wouldn't respect the decision of the Lead if his nametag said 2004 or 2005. I think Al even did an article on that one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine711 View Post
    Haha, at my old job (not for Disney) I was "promoted" to lead, I worked my butt off, always sweating. My manager told me I was the greatest employee he had in years. Um, lead, making just over minimun wage. No raise. at least they get raises. The people I supervised made more then me. I got a tiny raise later, still made less than everyone else. But I for stayed for another year, working my butt off. Because I'm loyal and work hard. I'll admit, I'm not the standing around type. I can be a robot (obviously).
    Before I was adocating for people having fun one the job, but I had quite a bit of fun working my butt off, when there were no customers I would talk with my coworkers, while I worked. When they started standing around talking to me while I worked, I moved on to a new section so they did. So, actually, people can have fun while they work. It just depends on how you look at work!
    There are a myriad of CM's that work their butts off on a daily basis and I do not mean to undercut them. But when people ask about the state of the park or wonder why the service isn't what it was I point this out as one of the primary reasons. Disney lost decades of Customer Service experience in only a few short years.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  5. #95

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    In 98 when I first started a 5 year pin was a dime a dozen. A lot of people worked like crazy to pick up CR25 and get benefits because B status was at roughly the 2 year mark. In 2000 B dipped to roughly 1 year, but you still had a very healthy A and B population. When I came back in 2004 it was a lot more difficult to find a 5 year pin. They were around, but not as common, and the 10 year service pin was an endangered species. In early 2005 Disney changed the nametag to say "class of" and the year you hired. By the end of 2005 so many people had left that they changed it to "hometown" because Disney was embarrassed by so many low numbers. Guests wouldn't respect the decision of the Lead if his nametag said 2004 or 2005. I think Al even did an article on that one!

    There are a myriad of CM's that work their butts off on a daily basis and I do not mean to undercut them. But when people ask about the state of the park or wonder why the service isn't what it was I point this out as one of the primary reasons. Disney lost decades of Customer Service experience in only a few short years.
    Is there any hope for a turnaround?

  6. #96

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by CAspace View Post
    Is there any hope for a turnaround?
    There is always hope for a turn around, but thus far the top rate remains unchanged and Disney is content with a low retention rate. The retention went up as the economy soured but PLENTY of CM's are now looking to move on as the economy improves. As I said this is a reflection of long term business decisions.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  7. #97

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Disney parks have benefitted from some desperate job seekers during this long, so-called great recession. They might have fewer good CMs applying if the economy improves. I think Rasulo Iger, Staggs, and Crofton would respond to a stronger economy not by improving wages of CMs, but by building another addition to Aulani. They don't want their CMs to be middle-class. The middle-class is not their thing--it was Walt's thing. Though Henry Ford was loathsome in some ways, the President recently and correctly praised him for paying his employees enough so they could afford the cars that they tried to make excellent for the middle class. Rasulo, Iger, Staggs & Crofton (RISC) just don't think this way. They follow Michael Eisner, not Walt Disney.

    No, it doesn't take a college degree to wake up Jose, but if you want to attract CMs who consistently inspire audiences to participate enthusiastically in a Tiki Room show that is only wonderful when many sing along, then you have to pay more than McDonald's. And they should even pay more than In 'n' Out & Starbucks.

    --Tom Sinsky
    Last edited by jcruise86; 10-13-2012 at 03:08 AM.

  8. #98

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by jcruise86 View Post
    Disney parks have benefitted from some desperate job seekers during this long, so-called great recession. They might have fewer good CMs applying if the economy improves. I think Rasulo Iger, Staggs, and Crofton would respond to a stronger economy not by improving wages of CMs, but by building another addition to Aulani. They don't want their CMs to be middle-class. The middle-class is not their thing--it was Walt's thing. Though Henry Ford was loathsome in some ways, the President recently and correctly praised him for paying his employees enough so they could afford the cars that they tried to make excellent for the middle class. Rasulo, Iger, Staggs & Crofton (RISC) just don't think this way. They follow Michael Eisner, not Walt Disney.
    Exactly right. Low pay, minimal training and little chance for advancement is part of the Disney Corporation's business model for its Parks. It's a model that has nothing in common with the pre-Eisner Walt Disney Company except the name.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  9. #99

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    I should stress that starting pay, while always important, does little for retention. Each Year you get a Union raise and a Cost of Living Adjustment. Once you hit the "top rate" all you get is Cost of Living each year. Someone who "starts" at $8 an hour will take X amount of time to hit the top rate of $10 an hour. Someone starting at $9 an hour simply makes that top rate that much faster.

    For example I started in 98, making $7 an hour. I left in 06, my time was bridged due to military service... I made $11.50 an hour. So over 8 years of service I made a whopping extra $4 an hour. That's why they can't retain people.

    Each department has their own top rate per the contract. So the $10 isn't everywhere within the berm.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  10. #100

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    For example I started in 98, making $7 an hour. I left in 06, my time was bridged due to military service... I made $11.50 an hour. So over 8 years of service I made a whopping extra $4 an hour. That's why they can't retain people.
    That isn't even liveable in this state. Of course that was back in 06'

  11. #101

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by clara View Post
    That isn't even liveable in this state. Of course that was back in 06'
    Assuming I started as a entry level cast member, I can then work my way up to lead, What are my advancement options once I reach "Lead" status. Assuming one wants to advance there career and take home pay at Disneyland, what are the options?

  12. #102

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Typically an ambitious lead will work up to a 'core' status (A, B or C) at an attraction and then participate in the Emerging Leaders program which can serve as sort of a gateway to becoming a manager. From there, the options continue to open up, although many complain that the pay still isn't great. Especially because by the time you get there, you very well may have a family to support

  13. #103

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by CMinParadise View Post
    Typically an ambitious lead will work up to a 'core' status (A, B or C) at an attraction and then participate in the Emerging Leaders program which can serve as sort of a gateway to becoming a manager. From there, the options continue to open up, although many complain that the pay still isn't great. Especially because by the time you get there, you very well may have a family to support
    Interesting to note that only a small fraction of Leads that apply make it to Emerging Leaders. Out of that an even smaller fraction are eventually brought up to the management level. That entire process is a political game, and everyone applying is well aware of that.

    Pay and lack of advancement are the two most checked boxes when CM's fill out the goodbye survey. Friends in HR let me in on that. And not everyone leaving was a "bad egg". Plenty walked out the door to better jobs because they simply couldn't live on the Disney paychecks.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  14. #104

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Well said.

  15. #105

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by jcruise86 View Post
    Disney parks have benefitted from some desperate job seekers during this long, so-called great recession. They might have fewer good CMs applying if the economy improves. I think Rasulo Iger, Staggs, and Crofton would respond to a stronger economy not by improving wages of CMs, but by building another addition to Aulani. They don't want their CMs to be middle-class. The middle-class is not their thing--it was Walt's thing. Though Henry Ford was loathsome in some ways, the President recently and correctly praised him for paying his employees enough so they could afford the cars that they tried to make excellent for the middle class. Rasulo, Iger, Staggs & Crofton (RISC) just don't think this way. They follow Michael Eisner, not Walt Disney.

    No, it doesn't take a college degree to wake up Jose, but if you want to attract CMs who consistently inspire audiences to participate enthusiastically in a Tiki Room show that is only wonderful when many sing along, then you have to pay more than McDonald's. And they should even pay more than In 'n' Out & Starbucks.
    So sad, but so true.

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