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  1. #1

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    Tomorrowland name change: Response to "In the Parks"

    Reading this weeks "In the Parks" article got me particularly riled up this weekend because of Norman's thoughts on Tomorrowland. While discussing this on the post's comment section I realized that not everyone in the forums necessarily goes through each article and some just pop on to forums alone, and some of the things Norman said should be discussed in greater depth. His thoughts on the franchise nature of the land versus it's innovation without regard to the rest of the park seems reckless.

    First, the notion that Tomorrowland was ever anything other than science fiction in it's purist form is ridiculous. Yes, it was meant to be the future, but so is Space Mountain, so is EO (a horrible interplanetary future, but the future none the less), so is Nemo (using technology to understand the creatures of the sea), so is Star Tours (so much technology in the forms of games, computers, animatronics, robotics, space ships, and government programs {lasers in the sky anyone?} are based on the wealth of vision in this series). Buzz Lightyear is so hard to defend it's ridiculous, so I won't try on that one, because it's not the point anyway. I argue that Tomorrowland, while in disrepair visually and argued to be failing, is no less futuristic than it ever was. The technology used in Star Tours wows the young and the young at heart in the same way attractions of old did.

    Second, Tony Stark. There hasn't been a better character in the last decade of film to better exemplify a current hope for future technology today than Tony Stark. To say he doesn't fit with Tomorrowland is like saying Snow White is too old a character for Fantasyland, or that cowboys are antiquated and no longer represent the frontier.

    To the point of renaming Tomorrowland because of it's franchise nature, I take great umbridge. I decided to do a point by point percentage assessment of the other lands for their "franchise" percentage scores as follows (updated as I forgot a few attractions in the original posting). There was some disagreement about rides turned into franchises versus franchises turned into rides, but regardless of how they became franchises, they are franchises now and forever forward.

    Main Street
    :
    1. Moments with Lincoln - non franchise
    2. Railroad - non franchise
    Score: 0% franchise

    Adventureland
    :
    1. Tiki Room - non franchise
    2. Jungle Cruise - in production film, will be franchise soon
    3. Indiana Jones - non Disney franchise
    4. Tarzan/Swiss Family Treehouse - book and film series turned into Disney film and cartoon series franchise / book turned into Disney franchise
    Score: 50% franchise currently, 75% soon upon completion of the Jungle Cruise film

    New Orleans
    :
    1. Pirates - 4 film franchise based from the original ride now converted to reflect the franchise (for good or for bad)
    2. Haunted Mansion/ Hauted Holiday - bad eddie murphy film based on the ride with a do-over in production from del torro based on the original ride/ Disney franchise holiday take over
    Score: 100% franchise

    Critter Country
    :
    1. Splash Mountain - based off segments from racially charged Song of the South (I only say racially charged because that's the excuse I've always heard for the reason it's not released), franchise
    2. Winnied the Pooh – non Disney books turned into Disney franchise
    Score: 100% franchise (possibly 66% franchise depending on the inclusion of Canoes as Critter Country or Tom Sawyer/Frontierland)

    Frontierland/Tom Sawyer
    :
    1. Big Thunder - non franchise
    2. Columbia - non franchise
    3. Mark Twain - non franchise
    4. Canoes - non franchise
    5. Tom Sawyer/Pirate’s Lair - themed off book franchise with Disney films afterwards/pirates franchise takeover of segments
    Score: 20% franchise (25% franchise if you put the Canoes with Critter Country)

    Fantasyland:

    1. Cinderella Castle - fairytale claimed by Disney (many incarnations before and after by others) franchise
    2. Snow White’s Adventure - fairytale claimed by Disney (many incarnations before and after by others) franchise
    3. Pinochio - fairytale claimed by Disney (many incarnations before and after by others) franchise
    4. Dumbo - Disney original franchise (who else would think up a flying elephant and talking crows?)
    5. Casey Jr - same Disney franchise (my family loves the monkey cage)
    6. Storybook Canal - a miniature tour of many Disney franchises
    7. Arthur’s Carousel - confusing mix of cinderella and sword in the stone, none the less a franchise attraction
    8. Peter Pan - fairytale claimed by Disney (many incarnations before and after by others) franchise
    9. Mr Toad's – book series claimed by Disney
    10. Alice in Wonderland - fairytale claimed by Disney (many incarnations before and after by others) franchise
    11. Teacups - based off single segment of the same franchise
    12. Matterhorn – non franchise
    13. Small World – non franchise
    Score: 84% franchise (83% if you don’t consider the castle an attraction)

    Toontown:
    1. Roger Rabbit - Disney original franchise
    2. Gadget’s Coaster -, Disney original cartoon series franchise
    Score: 100% franchise

    Tomorrowland:
    1. Rockets – non franchise
    2. Buzz – Disney purchased franchise
    3. Star Tours – non Disney franchise
    4. EO / Honey I Shrunk aka HISTA – non franchise (they’ve never released outside of the parks to my knowledge, someone correct me if I’m wrong) / Disney franchise
    5. Space Mountain – non franchise
    6. Innoventions / Iron Man – non franchise / Disney purchased franchise
    7. Autopia – non franchise
    8. Nemo / 20,000 Leagues – Disney purchased franchise / book and films turned into Disney franchise
    9. Monorail – non franchise

    This land, due to the changes proposed and being the focus this inquiry, requires multiple scores based on the possibilities.

    Current Score: 33% franchise
    HISTA replacing EO Score: 44% franchise
    HISTA plus Iron man with no other subtractions: 55% franchise

    So… by no means is Tomorrowland any more franchise based than any other land. So stop it, everyone, especially Norman.

    As to the point that Marvel isn't Disney, I firmly disagree. They are as much Disney as Pinocchio, Mulan, the Muppets, and every single Pixar franchise from before the merger. Disney has made them their own, and I for one welcome them.

  2. #2

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    Re: Tomorrowland name change: Response to "In the Parks"

    For the percentages for franchises, while Tomorrowland may have a lower percentage than say Adventureland, at least the franchises used in Adventureland like Indy actually make sense in the land. For Fantasyland, it is appropriate to have those movie tie-ins because they are all fairy tales that are relevant to the theme of the land. However, Tomorrowland has stuff like Nemo and Buzz which has absolutely nothing to do with the future., so those are examples of when movie tie-ins do not work for the land they are in.

  3. #3

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    Re: Tomorrowland name change: Response to "In the Parks"

    I wouldn't necesassily consider Haunted Mansion nor Pirates a franchise in the sense of the other ones listed because the movies came after the rides. I do not, however, have any issue with Iron Man. Disney needs to compete with Transformers. There is a BIG super hero market out there. Now that Disney owns Marvel, Iron man is technically considered Disney.

    I don't think the issue here is Iron Man. I think the real issue is the land itself. Space exploration is still something many of us cannot experience, but it's really no longer that distant of the future. I think Iron Man would be a positive addition to the land. I think the real weak areas are Autopia, gas powered cars the future? Also Nemo.
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  4. #4

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    Re: Tomorrowland name change: Response to "In the Parks"

    How do you get 100% in NOS? As GhostHostJeff has said HM and POTC were franchises after the rides were already in existence. I also don't consider the following to be "Disney" franchises which doesn't entail the crass marketing from Disney:
    1)Splash Mountain - no marketing tie-in
    2)TSI/Pirates Lair-marketing tie-in AFTER the Pirates movies came out
    3)Jungle Cruise-no marketing tie-in until AFTER the movie comes out

    So I got:
    NOS=0% franchise
    Frontierland=0% franchise
    Adventureland=50% franchise
    Critter Country=50% franchise
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  5. #5

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    Re: Tomorrowland name change: Response to "In the Parks"

    changing the names would be a travesty. "tomorrowland," no matter how out-dated it might seem in the present, was tomorrowland from the beginning and part of walt's vision. if they want to keep updating the attractions, fine, but don't change the name for franchise sake.

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  6. #6

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    Re: Tomorrowland name change: Response to "In the Parks"

    Sleeping Beauty Castle...
    Theatrical Roles: Various Roles (The Laramie Project), Fred (Oklahoma!), Oberon (Shakespeare in Hollywood), Hero (A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum), Valere (The Miser), Moonface Martin (Anything Goes), Thenardier/Laborer/Army Officer/Ensemble (Les Miserables), Franz (The Sound of Music), Tobias Ragg (Sweeney Todd), Tinman (The Wiz), Elles Dad/Winthrop/Ensemble (Legally Blonde), William Barfee/Leaf's Dad/Jesus Christ (25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee), Fiddler on the Roof (Rabbi), The Adventures of Tom Sawyer (Muff Potter/Ensemble), Shrek the Musical (Lord Farquaad)

  7. #7

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    Re: Tomorrowland name change: Response to "In the Parks"

    I totaly see where Norman is coming from
    i agree with him
    tomarrowland needs a unified theme like it did in the 1967 redue
    many of use MiceChaters will say that was TL's best time
    there were no franchises then
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  8. #8

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    Re: Tomorrowland name change: Response to "In the Parks"

    change the land not the name IMO. but everyone is entitled to their own. I dont know who Norman is, but I doubt he has the pull to change the name himself so maybe you shouldnt get too worked up. It seems like this post took you a lot of time tho. It was interesting

  9. #9

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    Re: Tomorrowland name change: Response to "In the Parks"

    Quote Originally Posted by lightofdarkness View Post

    So… by no means is Tomorrowland any more franchise based than any other land. So stop it, everyone, especially Norman.

    As to the point that Marvel isn't Disney, I firmly disagree. They are as much Disney as Pinocchio, Mulan, the Muppets, and every single Pixar franchise from before the merger. Disney has made them their own, and I for one welcome them.
    Actually, Pirates and the Mansion were not originally movie-/franchise-based. Just saying. But yeah, I think takes this aversion to all those not-originally-Disney franchises mingling with Disney is getting tiresome. Look at the George Lucas-created attractions as an example. And those existed as early as the late 1980s!

    Oh, and you can do a lot of things with Tomorrowland, but don't change the name.
    My top favorite Disneyland attractions:

    1. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
    2. Pirates of the Caribbean
    3. Splash Mountain
    4. Mad Tea Party
    5. Peter Pan's Flight
    6. Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin

  10. #10

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    Re: Tomorrowland name change: Response to "In the Parks"

    Norman is fishbulb,a MiceChat photogragher and writer
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  11. #11

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    Re: Tomorrowland name change: Response to "In the Parks"

    The Matterhorn was inspired by Disney's Third Man on the Mountain. I'll let someone else recalculate the percentages.
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  12. #12

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    Re: Tomorrowland name change: Response to "In the Parks"

    The caneos are also Davey Crocket explorer caneos so that ups your percentage where ever you put them.
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  13. #13

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    Re: Tomorrowland name change: Response to "In the Parks"

    Just because Disney has gotten lazy over the last 20 years in terms of Tomorrowland does not mean the theme is bad. Everyone keeps saying that its impossible to keep up with, but Space Mountain, Monorail, and Astro Orbitor/ Rocket jets are all just as relevant and popular as they were 30 years ago.


    The rides that have not retained the same level of lasting power are are Captain EO/ HISTA, Rocket Rods, Autopia, BLAB, and Innoventions. What was wrong with these attractions? All of them were either built originally or rebuilt on the cheap. 3D movies are cheap shows that have never had lasting power. Rocket Rods was built with a much smaller budget than it deserved. Autopia was relevant in the 50′s-80′s, and when it got rennovated in the 90′s, the majority of the money was spent on the ugly entrance/ queue area with very little enhancements added to the ride. BLAB was built as a clone of the attraction in WDW because it was cheap and popular. Innoventions was only built because Imagineering did not want to see the carousel theater go (and management complied because it was super cheap).


    The reason Space Mountain (1977), Monorail (1959), and Astro Orbitor/ Rocket Jets (1998/1967) is they were built with quality. In 1998, when Disney decided to revamp Tomorrowland to a half *** version of Discoveryland (what so many people want them to do even now), it failed. The paint scheme was awful, the place reaked of cutbacks, and the major new attraction was broken more than it was up. I do not blame the new theme they tried to push, I blame the execution.


    The idea that they cannot keep up with the theme of Tomorrow is the same as saying they can’t do any other theme. The key to a theme working is execution. Disney’s decisions in the past do not mean that the theme is undoable or irrelevant. Just as the rides under the original theme still work, the theme can still work.
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  14. #14

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    Re: Tomorrowland name change: Response to "In the Parks"

    And it's Sleeping Beauty Castle not Cinderella wrong park you're at buddy.

  15. #15

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    Re: Tomorrowland name change: Response to "In the Parks"

    Quote Originally Posted by frollofan View Post
    Tomorrowland has stuff like Nemo... ...which has absolutely nothing to do with the future.
    I beg to differ. While the talking cartoon fish may be stupid, the subs themselves are still very futuristic. Unless you know of a company somewhere that has affordable undersea tourism on nuclear subs available to the general public. That technology is still years away.

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostHostJeff View Post
    Space exploration is still something many of us cannot experience, but it's really no longer that distant of the future.
    I think space exploration is very much in our distant future when one considers that in over 50 years of manned space exploration we have ventured no further than our own moon. Travel such as that depicted in Star Tours or Space Mountain is still centuries away.
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