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  1. #31

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    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas998 View Post
    I think there is too much of the entitlement mentality that is becoming acceptable when you say someone with autism that doesn't like crowds or someone that is allergic to sunlight... I'm sorry but if you can't take the sunlight or you can't be around noisy crowded places then you really shouldn't be going to Disneyland or any other amusement park. Should we next set up special places on the beach where no one is allowed to play and have fun because it might upset someone that doesn't like noise? Should we set up large canopies that cover the entire beach so people that can't take sunlight can still go there?

    I'm sorry, but life isn't fair... we aren't all able to deal with the world as it is, but it doesn't mean that everyone has to change the world to suit a few that can't deal with it... at some point parents need to simply accept that their kid isn't like other kids and change what they do as a family to have fun instead of trying to force the world to change to them... I have a daughter that as very poor coordination should I sue the local school and force them to allow her to play basketball when she can't dribble a ball?
    It's not "changing the world" to allow someone with a legitimate need to access a ride through a separate entrance. Perhaps it's having something called compassion. Is it really going to adversely affect your day if that guy who is allergic to sunlight and has a life expectancy of 30 gets on a ride 5 minutes before you do? You're still going to get on the ride. They're not kicking you out of line, bothering you or changing anything you do with your day.

    People with disabilities are reminded every single day that they face obstacles that able-bodied people don't have. They deal with that every day. If they can come to Disneyland and spend a day being happy, why not?

    Maybe instead of resenting that guy's GAC, you should be grateful you're healthy and don't need one. That's how I see it.

  2. #32

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    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Poisonedapples View Post
    Anybody that is disabled in a wheelchair or ECV or needs use of any one of those can have a group of more then 6 accompany them into the ride.

    ---------- Post added 10-24-2012 at 12:31 PM ----------




    but yet you think it's silly that a actor in a wheelchair should not act on stage in the Aladdin show..

    So if a disabled mom with her group of 9 want to ride splash mountain, so let them be! the only time i see abuse of the wheelchairs an ECV is teenagers that think it's cool and funny to rent one so they get to the front of the lines.. other then that i feel everyone else has a legit reason
    Actually I said it was distracting and didn't fit the scene... but that has nothing to do with people abusing the ECV system.... And why do you think it only the teenagers that are abusing the system? I've known people that were full grown adults boasting of how they could game the system at Disney to get ahead of the line... Simply because someone is an adult doesn't magically make them saints, it that were the case there would be no need for prisons.

  3. #33

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    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Giant Panda View Post
    So, was the California DMV violating any laws when they asked me for medical substantiation for a temporary disabled parking plaquard? What about Southern California Edison, who also asked for medical substantiation when I sought a baseline allocation adjustment (for medical equipment)? For the record, I fully understand both organization's needs for justification and gladly provided it.
    No, they were not. The ADA does not prohibit either of those inquiries.

  4. #34

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    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas998 View Post
    I think there is too much of the entitlement mentality that is becoming acceptable when you say someone with autism that doesn't like crowds or someone that is allergic to sunlight... I'm sorry but if you can't take the sunlight or you can't be around noisy crowded places then you really shouldn't be going to Disneyland or any other amusement park. Should we next set up special places on the beach where no one is allowed to play and have fun because it might upset someone that doesn't like noise? Should we set up large canopies that cover the entire beach so people that can't take sunlight can still go there?

    I'm sorry, but life isn't fair... we aren't all able to deal with the world as it is, but it doesn't mean that everyone has to change the world to suit a few that can't deal with it... at some point parents need to simply accept that their kid isn't like other kids and change what they do as a family to have fun instead of trying to force the world to change to them... I have a daughter that as very poor coordination should I sue the local school and force them to allow her to play basketball when she can't dribble a ball?

    Poor coordination and distaste for noise are a far cry from a disorder like autism or being allergic to the sun. Also letting people who are not as lucky as the general pubic get on a ride a little bit quicker will not ruin your life, I promise.

  5. #35

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    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    It's not "changing the world" to allow someone with a legitimate need to access a ride through a separate entrance. Perhaps it's having something called compassion. Is it really going to adversely affect your day if that guy who is allergic to sunlight and has a life expectancy of 30 gets on a ride 5 minutes before you do? You're still going to get on the ride. They're not kicking you out of line, bothering you or changing anything you do with your day.

    People with disabilities are reminded every single day that they face obstacles that able-bodied people don't have. They deal with that every day. If they can come to Disneyland and spend a day being happy, why not?

    Maybe instead of resenting that guy's GAC, you should be grateful you're healthy and don't need one. That's how I see it.
    Actually having someone cut the line can adversely affect you. There is only so much time in a day and 5 minutes here and 5 minutes there add up over time... Would 1 person abusing the system make a dent in anyones day? Just ask the kid that missed out on getting to see their favorite character by 1 person. No one deserves to be treated special simply because they were dealt a bad hand by nature. A few decades ago the big push by the disabled was that they just wanted to be treated like everyone else... suddenly it seems to have shifted to better than everybody else.

    Millions of people have problems of all sorts, there shouldn't be any system where we provide free perks simply because you were unlucky in life.

  6. #36

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    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by sgtfox View Post
    No, they were not. The ADA does not prohibit either of those inquiries.
    Then why would the ADA prohibit Disney from asking for medical substantiation for a GAC?
    "She's taking everything. She's taking the house, she's taking the kid, she's taking the dog. IT'S NOT EVEN HER DOG. IT'S MY DOG! SHE'S TAKING . . . MY DOG!"
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  7. #37

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    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas998 View Post
    Millions of people have problems of all sorts, there shouldn't be any system where we provide free perks simply because you were unlucky in life.
    No, in a humane society there should be such a system. The challenge is to make it fair for everyone and to prevent it from being abused.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
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  8. #38

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    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas998 View Post
    Actually having someone cut the line can adversely affect you. There is only so much time in a day and 5 minutes here and 5 minutes there add up over time... Would 1 person abusing the system make a dent in anyones day? Just ask the kid that missed out on getting to see their favorite character by 1 person. No one deserves to be treated special simply because they were dealt a bad hand by nature. A few decades ago the big push by the disabled was that they just wanted to be treated like everyone else... suddenly it seems to have shifted to better than everybody else.

    Millions of people have problems of all sorts, there shouldn't be any system where we provide free perks simply because you were unlucky in life.
    Your kid could also miss out on seeing a character just because someone happened to get to the line more quickly than you did...that's neither here nor there.

    You seem to have a lot of resentment toward the disabled. That's too bad. I could spend hours writing a post to try to explain that there are NO free perks for the disabled -- go ahead, ask any of them if getting a GAC or riding in the wheelchair boat at iasw makes up for not being able to walk, or having arthritis or cancer. It seems pointless to try to argue it out if there's so much inherent resentment, though.

    The GAC and disabled line access, when used by those who really need them, HELP the disabled "be like everyone else." Without those options they wouldn't be able to come in at all. They're not being treated better; they're receiving the help they need to get on the ride.

    Disney can't do everything. There's no way to get a wheelchair to the top of Tarzan's Treehouse, for instance. However, when there's a situation where something like an alternative entrance, a GAC or an accessible ride vehicle can help someone experience the park, there's no reason, in a compassionate and inclusive society, not to have those options.

  9. #39

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    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    Your kid could also miss out on seeing a character just because someone happened to get to the line more quickly than you did...that's neither here nor there.

    You seem to have a lot of resentment toward the disabled. That's too bad. I could spend hours writing a post to try to explain that there are NO free perks for the disabled -- go ahead, ask any of them if getting a GAC or riding in the wheelchair boat at iasw makes up for not being able to walk, or having arthritis or cancer. It seems pointless to try to argue it out if there's so much inherent resentment, though.

    The GAC and disabled line access, when used by those who really need them, HELP the disabled "be like everyone else." Without those options they wouldn't be able to come in at all. They're not being treated better; they're receiving the help they need to get on the ride.

    Disney can't do everything. There's no way to get a wheelchair to the top of Tarzan's Treehouse, for instance. However, when there's a situation where something like an alternative entrance, a GAC or an accessible ride vehicle can help someone experience the park, there's no reason, in a compassionate and inclusive society, not to have those options.
    You cannot mandate compassion anymore than you can make racism or bigotry vanish through legislation... If Disney wants to on its one provide special lines for people in wheelchairs or people that simply have red hair, it should be their right to do so... The problem is that with the ADA and lawyer happy people, the companies have no ability to decide on their own what is reasonable and what isn't, they have to err on the side of caution to avoid being sued silly... and that opens the door for people that want to manipulate the system.

    Do you honestly think that if the ADA was abolished tomorrow that Disney would suddenly remove all the things that make the park accessible to people that really need help? I don't. But I do think that if the ADA was abolished, places like Disney could use their own judgement to insure that the systems worked as intended and wasn't abused by people just looking to get an edge. I would think someone like yourself would be bothered by people taking advantage of the system.

  10. #40

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    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    It seems this is a complicated topic. Now that Disney is aware of people abusing the system thanks to the wild success of Carsland's E-ticket Radiator Springs Racers, will they change the system? Especially now considering NextGen Xpass is coming soon?

    Personally, when I'm about to board a ride after waiting 30+ minutes and I see a small group of people with a person in a wheelchair who wears a cast or something board before me, I have no problem. Obviously that person cannot walk, so duh, they need special boarding.

    I only get frustrated/flabbergasted when I'm waiting in line at one of the thrill rides and I see people board with a chair-bound mentally disabled person (They're subjecting this poor individual to this intense ride!? What if they have an aneurysm or heart attack since they can't comprehend what's going on???) or a person who doesn't look handicapped at all, mental or physical. "Can't wait in long lines"

    I'm all for handicapped persons having access to rides, and I'm concerned that people are abusing the system, but I'm even more concerned with families putting their handicapped family member on a ride they most likely shouldn't be riding in fear of their health. To me, it's as bad as parents forcing their scared children to ride something they don't want to.



    Today, I feel like driving through a cursed temple, taking a tour of a haunted antebellum mansion, plunging down a waterfall in a hollowed-out log, bobsledding down a famous swiss mountain, traveling through the darkest recesses of space, and watching fireworks explode over a fantastical castle.

    Yeah, that sounds fun.

  11. #41

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    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Guess I should have made myself clearer in my OP (sorry I had just gotten back home from DLR about an hour before I posted ).

    There are some good point here and yes a lot of time (especially on busy days) the accessible lines are longer than the normal lines and personally I am fine with that. If I could wait in a regular line I would (in fact most times I would give anything to be healthy enough to wait in a regular line). My point was is that I just do not see any reason for a group of 16 (or even 10) people to accompany a person who must be in a wheelchair or ECV. 1 or 2 is more than enough. Of course if you have small children that can not be left on their own that is a different story and exceptions would have to be made. Most of us who must use one of these devices have no problem waiting in lines as long as they are accessible. In fact on the new Star Tours, the lines are accessible to wheelchairs, but the ECV's wont fit so they gave us a pass (much like a fastpass) that estimated the wait time that the normal line currently had and told us that we could go in through the exit and wait there or come back at the appointed time. I just found it ridiculous that there were huge groups pf people in the accessible lines that were not using ECV's or wheelchairs but were with someone who was. And these were not kids, these were all adults. I just fail to see why a person in an ECV would need that many people to help them.

    I am not complaining that the accessible lines were to long or that there were to many people in them, I was pointing out that the abuse of these lines seems to have skyrocketed since I last visited. At DCA there really isnt much of an issue with it as the park had to be built ADA compliant (although there are special loading areas at most of the rides).

    On a final note, I am one of those people that dont look like there is anything wrong with me.

    Just some observations and what I saw first hand a few days ago...

  12. #42

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    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Giant Panda View Post
    Then why would the ADA prohibit Disney from asking for medical substantiation for a GAC?
    Because Congress chose to write the law in that manner. The ADA is a complex web of rules and regulations, all of which affect different entities in different ways. The examples you cited are covered by the regulations in Title II (Public Entities). Disneyland's responsibilities are governed by Title III (Public Accommodations).

    And to reiterate, in the case of Disneyland's responsibilities, the law actually does permit them to request proof of disability, but also indicates that they must accept a verbal avowal of disability as valid proof (absent clear evidence to the contrary).

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    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    I'm sorry if this is a sensitive question but I was curious why ECVs are so popular and have replaced so many electric wheelchairs. Are electric wheelchairs much more expensive or hard to maintain? Electric wheelchairs take up so much less space in queues, stores, etc. Can anyone fill me in on this?
    Here are just a few of the key ingredients: dynamite, pole vaulting, laughing gas, choppers - can you see how incredible this is going to be? - hang gliding, come on!

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    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas998 View Post
    You cannot mandate compassion anymore than you can make racism or bigotry vanish through legislation... If Disney wants to on its one provide special lines for people in wheelchairs or people that simply have red hair, it should be their right to do so... The problem is that with the ADA and lawyer happy people, the companies have no ability to decide on their own what is reasonable and what isn't, they have to err on the side of caution to avoid being sued silly... and that opens the door for people that want to manipulate the system.

    Do you honestly think that if the ADA was abolished tomorrow that Disney would suddenly remove all the things that make the park accessible to people that really need help? I don't. But I do think that if the ADA was abolished, places like Disney could use their own judgement to insure that the systems worked as intended and wasn't abused by people just looking to get an edge. I would think someone like yourself would be bothered by people taking advantage of the system.

    Again, being disabled is nothing like having red hair. Your insistence for downplaying the major challenges that people face on a day to day basis is extremely ignorant.

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    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Everyone can argue until they are blue in the face about how this situation should be handled. Ultimately until the human race changes (fat chance), this won't change unless the laws change first that make it OK and/or required for Disney to ask for medical papers, etc before renting an ECV from the park.

    Just like the GAC problems that they face, it's not hard to group up your buddies, fake an injury, get a pass/ECV and be on your way. I don't know what's worse that people continue to do this or that there isn't a whole lot Disney can do to stop them..

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