Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 234567 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 103
  1. #61

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,495

    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by JMazz View Post
    I saw it as laziness on his part b/c he is the renter and encouraging the grandparents to use them. What was his main benefit? The kids get to stay longer b/c the grandparents wont be as tired. But I asked my SO for a diff POV. He says that it is the grandparents that are using the scooters that were rented by the dad so they are the abusers; my SO sees it as the grandparents as being very lazy. I say it is the enabling father. Yes, we actually debated this while having dinner after he got home.

    In the end, after having that family debate for a few min last night, we both thought it seemed like laziness on the part of the family as a whole. After all, we can climb Mt. Everest if someone makes a device that cuts out all the work. There was a time when ppl put an effort into the parks. The parks aren't designed to have 10k scooters in them and when it does have that many, the effect isn't a "happy" one. The last place you need to try out a new vehicle (and remember it is a vehicle), is at a crowded themepark. This testimonial (above) is a perfect example of abuse. I am 100% sure that no one in that family intended to cause anything negitive to happen. Their intent wasn't to displace truely disabled ppl who have a genuine ECV need; I am sure there was no harm meant. But good intentions do not make them any less of an abuser.

    Why do I even care? When it comes to GAC lines, I pretty much don't care anymore as the years wear on b/c I am caving in. It is the ECV problem of taking up space that affects me, my family and the legit ppl w/ disabilities who are displaced. An ECV abuser has a foot print up to 4x their standing footprint. And don't get me started on the ppl who use it as a battering ram. If you don't need one except when you go to a themepark or if a themepark is your inspiration to use it for the very first time, then IMO you are abusing. That is what it says in the testimonial. How do you see the testimonial paragraph???

    Short Answer:
    Scooter for an ailment?
    Of course because this is what they are designed for.

    Scooter-rental-for-the-first-time-because-walking-at-a-theme-park-might-make-you-go-home-earlier-because-there's-effort-involved-and-you-don't-want-to-upset-the-kids-who-will-have-to-cut-their-trip-short-by-a-couple-hrs?
    No way. This is abuse.
    Lazy? Seriously?

    You do realize that many, if not most, elderly people tend to be rather frail? Like, with osteoarthritis and brittle bones? Hardening of the arteries? Muscle weakness?

    Sure, the letter writer doesn't specifically state his parents aren't as healthy as younger people, but come on, does he really need to? Elderly people without physical problems are the exception, not the rule.

  2. #62

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    792

    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    The only problem with this is if the handicapped person has small children and the group can't be broken up.

    I think the best solution is for the worker at the entrance to the ride note the current time and the estimated standby time for the attraction and then issue a pass with an appropriate return time. That way it ensures that everyone is waiting roughly the same amount of time.
    This would be the best solution and is currently used at a handful of Disney attractions and at the Universal parks. Eliminate the benefits (real or imagined) and eliminate the abuse.

  3. #63

    • Sock Puppet
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    orange county,ca
    Posts
    6,499

    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by skoolpsyk View Post
    wow, when I think of it almost everyone I know has some kind of disability or condition at least equal to what you describe in their group (and no I am not kidding); they have managed without it, but perhaps they shouldn't...

    I guess the one fair solution is, give everyone a GAC when they come in the gate and they can use it or not as they need to!
    are being sarcastic? aspergers btw is a a high functioning autism i didn't mentioned that before because i figured people knew that.

    just cause they look normal on the outside, doens't mean on the inside they are, they could have a disease and or disability on the inside and you just wouldn't know it. and no not eveyone that comes through the gate should get a GAC,i have one cause i need it.

    ---------- Post added 10-26-2012 at 10:18 AM ----------

    that's true a group that has a wheelchair user can't be broken up specially if they are severly disabled. so what calsig said is good..

  4. #64

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    1,562 Miles East of DisneyLand
    Posts
    764

    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by ttintagel View Post
    Lazy? Seriously?

    You do realize that many, if not most, elderly people tend to be rather frail? Like, with osteoarthritis and brittle bones? Hardening of the arteries? Muscle weakness?

    Sure, the letter writer doesn't specifically state his parents aren't as healthy as younger people, but come on, does he really need to? Elderly people without physical problems are the exception, not the rule.
    I have tried to stay out of this debate because this is a very sensitive issue for some. My Maternal Grandparents were both disabled. My Grandpa was deaf and my Grandma was confined to a wheelchair for the last 20 years of her life. So I don't come to this conversation without a "tainted" point of view.

    That being said, I think that the above reply warrants a response. For every "frail" senior citizen, there are others that are perfectly healthy and are fully capable of running marathons, never mind being able to walk around Disneyland for a full day. Please take this into consideration.

    JMazz had a valid point, IMO. The renter didn't get an ECV because HE needed one. Nor did the Grandparents state that they needed one. He rented it and then gave it to them to use. This is totally enabling behavior. Neither party NEEDED the ECV. It was rented as a convenience, not a necessity.

    Let's face it.... not everybody likes to walk. I know I don't and I know my kids get really tired after a full day at the park. Imagine if everyone that feels this way rented an ECV just because their feet are tired. Instant gridlock will ensue. I think this is the point JMazz was making.





    "I do not like to repeat successes. I like to go on to other things." - Walt Disney


  5. #65

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Juniper Hills, CA
    Posts
    440

    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Poisonedapples View Post
    are being sarcastic? aspergers btw is a a high functioning autism i didn't mentioned that before because i figured people knew that.

    just cause they look normal on the outside, doens't mean on the inside they are, they could have a disease and or disability on the inside and you just wouldn't know it. and no not eveyone that comes through the gate should get a GAC,i have one cause i need it.

    ---------- Post added 10-26-2012 at 10:18 AM ----------

    that's true a group that has a wheelchair user can't be broken up specially if they are severly disabled. so what calsig said is good..
    no sarcasm. I know what Asperger's is, I'm a psychologist. When you look at the prevalence of disabilities and include those such as ADHD, Aspergers, Anxiety, ect. and also include physical limitations such as obesity, broken ankle, sun sensitivity etc. you are looking at an extremely large number of groups that would have at least one member of their group with one condition that qualifies. It's interesting to see those that choose to use it and those that do not...

  6. #66

    • Sock Puppet
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    orange county,ca
    Posts
    6,499

    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by skoolpsyk View Post
    no sarcasm. I know what Asperger's is, I'm a psychologist. When you look at the prevalence of disabilities and include those such as ADHD, Aspergers, Anxiety, ect. and also include physical limitations such as obesity, broken ankle, sun sensitivity etc. you are looking at an extremely large number of groups that would have at least one member of their group with one condition that qualifies. It's interesting to see those that choose to use it and those that do not...

    oh i see what you mean. gotcha!

  7. #67

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Juniper Hills, CA
    Posts
    440

    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    I wonder if it would help if they made the GACs ride specific. I'm sure some disabilities/limitations may only apply to certain attractions (due to the size/location of queue for example) yet, when a group gets the passes they end up using them for each and every thing. If guest relations had them specify which attractions they needed it for at the time they got it and it was noted on the passes, maybe that would help a bit?

  8. #68

    • aka 'KiMcHeE'
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    597

    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    I didn't read the whole thread, but I just wanted to add my own story of ECV abuse.

    I was at the park a couple of weeks ago, and it was pretty crowded since it was about park closing time for the regular guests not attending the Not So Scary party. I was coming out of Tomorrowland heading my way towards the park exit. On my way there was a lady in her mid 30's early 40's riding a scooter. She was riding her scooter with not a care in the world about the people around her. I was walking between a bench and a planter when suddenly at the corner of my eye I see that lady reversing her scooter at top speed laughing her *** off with her head looking towards the sky heading towards me! Noticing the immediate danger, I literally jumped on my mom and held on for dear life while she narrowly missed me. I actually still got clipped a bit on my leg but it would've been a whole lot worse if I didn't jump out of the way. Her daughter saw what happened and was just laughing at her mom's crazy behavior. Two CMs were also there and witnessed me almost getting ran over, but none of them said anything to the lady on the scooter. I was appalled and angry at what happened. No one apologized to me and no one said anything to the lady on the scooter. I wanted to give that lady a piece of my mind but at the time I thought one of the CMs was giving her a stern talk (apparently he was talking to somebody else near the lady and not to the lady on the scooter). So I continued my way towards the exit trying to let all of my anger go. However on the way, I saw the lady with the scooter again and this time was zooming down main street at top speed weaving and tailgating through the crowd! It was like watching a jerk on a crowded freeway driving 100 MPH! I was shocked! This lady was endangering the lives of other people! After watching her, I think she might've been drunk out of her mind. I have never seen such abuse with a scooter at Disneyland before and was really shocked no CM said anything to her. I'm not sure if she had any sort of disability (and I don't want to assume she didn't have any), but her behavior driving that scooter was unacceptable. She was laughing and driving that scooter as if it was an E-ticket attraction at Disneyland.

  9. #69

    • Sock Puppet
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    orange county,ca
    Posts
    6,499

    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by skoolpsyk View Post
    I wonder if it would help if they made the GACs ride specific. I'm sure some disabilities/limitations may only apply to certain attractions (due to the size/location of queue for example) yet, when a group gets the passes they end up using them for each and every thing. If guest relations had them specify which attractions they needed it for at the time they got it and it was noted on the passes, maybe that would help a bit?
    That may be true for some people with a wheelchair or group with a GAC, but not all groups or users of a wheelchair..

  10. #70

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Juniper Hills, CA
    Posts
    440

    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Poisonedapples View Post
    That may be true for some people with a wheelchair or group with a GAC, but not all groups or users of a wheelchair..
    Of course; didn't mean to imply that they all did.
    Last edited by skoolpsyk; 10-26-2012 at 11:50 AM.

  11. #71

    •   
    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    752

    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Some.

    I have a friend that got back from Iraq missing a leg. The prosthetic is really good, you can't tell it's there when he's wearing pants. He never stands in the disabled line. He'd rather eat the prosthetic than do that. I respect his choice, and it is a conscious choice.

    On the flipside I've heard more than one person I know simply beam about how they "fastpassed their way to the front" thanks to <insert debatable medical condition> and it felt dishonest. They found a way in and they went for it.

    You are the product of the choices you make in your life, nothing more.

  12. #72

    • some assembly required
    • Offline

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    nowhere in particular...
    Posts
    687

    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by ttintagel View Post
    Lazy? Seriously?

    You do realize that many, if not most, elderly people tend to be rather frail? Like, with osteoarthritis and brittle bones? Hardening of the arteries? Muscle weakness?

    Sure, the letter writer doesn't specifically state his parents aren't as healthy as younger people, but come on, does he really need to? Elderly people without physical problems are the exception, not the rule.
    1. you obviously haven't read many of my posts on this topic. I am an advocate for many groups in my city.
    2. you assume that grandparent=frail (or frail enough to not handle the parks)
    3. you assume grandparentsomeone who is younger (not all grandparents are in their 70s and 80s)

    This testimonial may not be the best example to you, but to me if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, well, it is.

    Babyboomer grandparents are some of the biggest abusers of scooter rentals. I am guessing that you have not followed every post in this thread. One of the topics mentioned was "those teens are abusing the system". I am not always first to jump to the defense of teens, but my point on page four was that they aren't the biggest abusers, it is pretty much any age group EXCEPT teens.

    If you want to give every able bodied grandparent a free pass on this just b/c they are a grandparent, that is your right I suppose.

    ---------- Post added 10-26-2012 at 01:55 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by 4th Gen Disney Fan View Post
    Snip. I think this is the point JMazz was making.
    Thank you.
    ~Jay

    "Ahh-chooo!" ~ Walt Disney
    "Bless you." ~ My Grandfather
    (Disneyland, circa 1957)


  13. #73

    • New Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    7

    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by marqueemark View Post
    I'm sorry if this is a sensitive question but I was curious why ECVs are so popular and have replaced so many electric wheelchairs. Are electric wheelchairs much more expensive or hard to maintain? Electric wheelchairs take up so much less space in queues, stores, etc. Can anyone fill me in on this?
    For me personally the scooters or easier to use, and more comfortable. I have both (my insurance paid for an electric wheelchair but would not pay for the scooter because it has handle bars and is considered by them, a "convenience"), so I rented a scooter for a month to try it out, and ended up buying it. Most scooters that you buy or rent from an outside source are not much bigger than a chair (my scooter is 4" longer than my chair). The ones that are rented by Disney though are huge and clunky. Some years ago, I was actually the first person to use the ECV model that Disney now rents (not planned, they just ran out of scooters that day and I really needed one so a manager came out and gave me the test scooter and asked that I write down what I thought of it and they would comp it for my trouble).

    They are an improvement over the ones that they rented 10 years ago, but are still huge. They have to be though because they are rentals and are routinely abused and misused (I dont think it is done on purpose, I just think that people who rent them and dont use them in everyday life just dont know how to use them properly).

    ---------- Post added 10-28-2012 at 02:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Flutterfly74 View Post

    As for the limit of # of people. I think if it was only 2, then where is the fun for the photo op at the end of certain rides? Isn't the point of going to a park as a family for the family time? Not the do everything separately time? I do understand much larger groups- that is a tad ridiculous since they would not all be seated together anyways.
    Actually that is pretty easy as most rides you can simply wait in your scooter at the loading area until your party goes through the main line and then get on with them. I have done this many times

  14. #74

    • Minion
    • Online

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    6 hours from the House of Mouse
    Posts
    3,669

    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by HauntedMansionLvr View Post
    Actually that is pretty easy as most rides you can simply wait in your scooter at the loading area until your party goes through the main line and then get on with them. I have done this many times
    Here is the issue with this. You get in the HA line at Pirates. There are 4 other wheelchair/scooters/service dogs/people with canes/etc in line. Your family enters the stand by queue. It is somewhat walk on. They reach the front of the queue in 5 mins. However, due to evacuation procedures, the ride is limited to only 6 disabled groups on the ride at any one time, there are 6 people on, plus 4 more including you in the HA line. Should you be allowed to cut in front of the others, even though they have been waiting longer? Same for IASW. And Space Mountain.

    Haunted Mansion has similar issues. We've waited there when we have had a large group. My mom and daughter waited at the hearse while everyone went through the regular line, then when they reached the front, they waited in the handicap line until it was our turn, since they couldn't load us til the other HA families came off.

    As long as people think the HA line is shorter, you will have cheaters and abusers. But over all, since the average wait on rides outside Fantasyland are longer, people will eventually learn.
    If you see a cute yellow lab puppy with a yellow cape, WAVE! It might be us! (Or it may be someone else that lurks here!) Thank you for asking before you pet! Next trip, Dec 22-Jan 3rd.

  15. #75

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,495

    Re: Follow Up On The Issue Of ECV Abuse At Disneyland Park

    Quote Originally Posted by JMazz View Post
    This testimonial may not be the best example to you, but to me if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, well, it is.
    Exactly - the letter appears to be from someone who needs assistance. Therefore, since it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, I assume it is what it appears to be rather than some kind of fake.

    ---------- Post added 10-29-2012 at 10:11 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by skoolpsyk View Post
    I wonder if it would help if they made the GACs ride specific. I'm sure some disabilities/limitations may only apply to certain attractions (due to the size/location of queue for example) yet, when a group gets the passes they end up using them for each and every thing. If guest relations had them specify which attractions they needed it for at the time they got it and it was noted on the passes, maybe that would help a bit?
    For all practical intents and purposes, they are.

    The card has specific needs marked. If the regular way to get on the ride doesn't conflict with those specific needs, then you get on via the regular way.

Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 234567 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [News] The Pirate's League Comes To Disneyland Park!
    By The Disney Ninja in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 65
    Last Post: 08-03-2012, 09:29 AM
  2. [News] The Voices of Liberty coming to Disneyland Park
    By The Forbidden Eye in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 04-17-2012, 09:05 AM
  3. [Question] What's the next E-Ticket attraction for Disneyland park?
    By Jon Autopsy in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: 12-07-2009, 04:13 PM
  4. [Chat] Which is the Most Scaryiest/Creepiest Ride in Disneyland Park
    By hurricanefreak in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 03-29-2009, 09:00 PM
  5. Taking Out The Disney Gallery: The Issue
    By Abominable Snowman in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 08-10-2007, 08:46 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •