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  1. #226

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Um...I'm thinking no.
    ...and yet Steve does speak for so many of us who just read and nod in agreement. No need to respond when Steve's got it in hand so well. He's not the only one thinking "no" here.

  2. #227

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Have any of you considered that maybe the next generation want some new memories that are different from all of yours? Sure, the dioramas are nostalgic and remind you of classic Disneyland but to a five year old, they don't illicit any of those memories or feelings. To this generation of children, it's nothing more than an arguably out-of-place window display. You can't force a part of your culture and memories upon another generation. Call them ADD, call them impatient, call them whatever you want to make yourself seem better and more high-class than them, but the kids and casual visitors today simply may not like the dioramas. Just like the visitors of today are no longer impressed by Soarin'...no one is arguing that Soarin' shouldn't get an upgrade because it's a classic landmark with an impressive musical score, in fact I see quite a bit of the opposite around here.

    It's time to move on, folks. I for one, don't think the dioramas hurt anybody but there definitely is an untapped argument here. Disney should be creating new memories for their new visitors to enjoy! And like many of you have said yourselves, if you don't like what's in store, you can always skip it or take a nap


    Your Generation has thee following @Disneyland & DCA available within the last decade (some of these Rides / Attractions I enjoy, some I don't bother waiting in line for) -


    Disneyland

    Big Thunder Ranch
    Pirates's Lair on Tom Sawyer Island
    The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh
    Pixie Hollow
    Rapunzel and Flynn Meet n' Greet
    Buzz Lightyear Astro Blasters
    Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage
    Innoventions
    Star Tours: The Adventure Continues



    Disney California Adventure

    California Screamin'
    The Little Mermaid" Ariel's Undersea Adventure
    Toy Story Midway Mania
    Goofy's Sky School
    World of Colour
    Grizzly River Run
    Monsters, Inc. Mike & Sulley to the Rescue
    Red Trolley Car
    The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror
    the whole area of Cars Land (from Radiators Springs Racers to Ramone's House of Body Art)



    Some of US from a different generation enjoy what is still available @ Disneyland & DCA that hasn't been "eisner" ' d (neglected until it can't be fixed), especially those Rides & Attractions that continue to influence & entertain Theme Park Guests from the last 40 years (& from the day Disneyland opened) thanks to the dreams of Walt Disney, as well as the innovations from Imagineers .... & we'd <3 to make sure these elements @ the Disneyland Resort remain intact!


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  3. #228

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    The diorama is intimately entwined with the trains and their history/story, so you are sort of right.

    Although your indifference to the trains is an anomoly.
    My indifference to Disneyland Railroad (and trains in general) make me an anomaly? I must go rethink the life that I have lived up until this point. Apparently I have been leading an anomalous lifestyle this whole time.

    In all seriousness though, you are a train guy I get that. I however am not. I am sure there are things that I am passionate about that you would probably care less about. I wouldn't call that an anomaly. People have different tastes and different passions.

  4. #229

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Sometimes, when I first enter the park, I ride the train from Main Street and go all the way around back to Main Street, but I don't get off till I get to New Orleans Square and head for Splash Mtn.

    The GCD/PM is the highlight of the trip.
    Everyone is entitled to an informed opinion.
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    Texan by birth, Californian by choice.

    There should be a sticky thread called "This Day in Disney History." The company has a long history and this would be a good way to acknowledge it. Walt was born 112 years ago; that's quite a chunk of American history and culture.

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by darkamor View Post
    Your Generation has thee following @Disneyland & DCA available within the last decade ...
    Disneyland

    Big Thunder Ranch
    Innoventions

    Disney California Adventure

    California Screamin'
    Grizzly River Run
    These were available more than a decade ago. CA Screamin' and Grizzly River Run opened in 2001, Innoventions opened in 1998, and Big Thunder Ranch has been around much longer than any of those.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  6. #231

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    This has been both a lively and exciting discussion. I am glad that I started it. Both sides make good points about the trains, Diorama, and Primeval World. The idea of Disney Nostalgia really hit home for me -- it was not something that I had truly considered. Which leads to my next idea...

    IF the Imagineers find that, for any existing attraction, they cannot really "plus it" (like they did with POTC) but instead must sacrifice it to Yesterland BUT they feel strongly that the nostalgic/historic element outweighs the dwindling ridership, how about creating an actual Yesterland? Perhaps in part of that "Third Gate" parcel where Star Wars and Marvel attractions are rumored for?

  7. #232

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorQ9 View Post
    IF the Imagineers find that, for any existing attraction, they cannot really "plus it" (like they did with POTC) but instead must sacrifice it to Yesterland BUT they feel strongly that the nostalgic/historic element outweighs the dwindling ridership, how about creating an actual Yesterland? Perhaps in part of that "Third Gate" parcel where Star Wars and Marvel attractions are rumored for?
    I think it's an intriguing idea, and I certainly wish the Disney corporation could somehow find it in their hearts (and account books) to curate the nostalgia of all generations. There have been rumors of a Country Bear Jamboree returning, but to DCA this time around.

    But the logic and the profit motive don't seem to line up. If they were to free up the real estate for a third gate, the investment in that real estate would be best served by building new attractions on the raw space--not dismantling existing attractions, moving them there, then building the new attraction in the old park. There are not only cost considerations, there are grandfathered-in exemptions to code that wouldn't survive the relocation.

    Probably be better all around to hype the new third gate as the "Now Disneyland," and let "Classic Disneyland" become the de facto Yesterland.

    Personally, if you want to look at real estate that could be reclaimed for new cool stuff, I'd look no farther than Paradise Bay in DCA. Scale down World of Color so it becomes a moat-like thingy, and build a new land within. Just one idea, to prove I'm not just a grumpy traditionalist.

  8. #233

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Be careful what you wish for:

    Inner Space > BLAB
    People Mover > Shade
    Carousel of Progress > Innoventions or Disney's internal codename Immersive Advertising Experience
    Submarine Voyage > Talking Fish Fillets

    At most they should Enhance it like so:


  9. #234

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by orbitalpunk View Post
    Be careful what you wish for:

    Inner Space > BLAB
    Um, I think you mean Inner Space> Star Tours. Unless there was some sort of attraction based on the Dennis Quaid/Martin Short movie I am aware of.
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    "The thing that makes us different is our way of thinking, our judgement and experience acquired over the years. Giving it 'heart.' Others haven't understood the public. We developed a psychological approach to everything we do here. We seem to know when to 'tap the heart.' Others have hit the intellect. We can hit them in an emotional way. Those that appeal to the intellect only appeal to a very limited group. Let's not let the mechanics get in here and foul the whole thing." -Walt Disney

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by orbitalpunk View Post
    Be careful what you wish for:

    Inner Space > BLAB
    Interesting that you compare Innerspace to Buzz Lightyear and not Star Tours which actually replaced Innerspace.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  11. #236

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by drjeep View Post
    My indifference to Disneyland Railroad (and trains in general) make me an anomaly?
    75% of guests at the park ride the train. A vast majority are not indifferent to the DRR. If you are, indeed, indifferent to it, that is anomolous, by definition, plain and simple.

  12. #237

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    The sound of the DLR welcomes people to the park, it's part of the heartbeat that let's people know the park is a living, breathing entity. As you enter, the vision of the DLRR Station is above you, perhaps not as iconic as the castle which has been used as branding of Disney for years, but almost as iconic to the subconscious which has noted it every single time one enters the park. From so many places in the park, the sound of the whistle reminds you of that energy... and as Steve has already mentioned, 75% of the guests ride the train, either as an attraction unto itself, but at the very least to get from one part of the park to the next.

    Kids today, while certainly more electronic-centric than previous generations, STILL get excited at the sight of animals and definitely at the sight of Dinosaurs...especially life sized, moving dinosaurs.

    I don't think this is JUST about nostalgia. But nostalgia is a large part why the park has charm. Whether people are conscious of it or not, nostalgia for times gone by, stereotypically more simple times (I say this, because realistically, they weren't necessarily more simple, just cluttered by different types of things and burdened by other weighty matters), is and was a large part of what makes Disneyland special. I can't imagine anyone would want Main Street redesigned to represent a 21st century shopping mall, decorated with modern Old Navy Store Fronts, Starbucks logos, and perhaps a mini-Target.

    While children don't have context to appreciate nostalgia in the same way, they, when allowed, find excitement in seldom visited outdoor vistas of the Grand Canyon populated with animals they would be fortunate to spot in the wild. And while we know the presentation of this as a throwback, since they rarely see dioramas in any form, they will see it as "Something they have never seen." Yes, I'm certain some people see it as a tad corny...but what's wrong with that? The cynicism that we are experiencing now is a pendulum that swings back and forth. People crave corny with some frequency, and that pendulum is due for a swing back.

    Update lights? sure. Enhance audio... absolutely. Create a better transition, nah, it's not necessary, the transition from one locale to a similar millions of years before is done with narration and in our minds. It still works.

    That's the best way to sum up this attraction, it still works. And it works beautifully.

  13. #238

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate Lover 68 View Post
    The sound of the DLR welcomes people to the park, it's part of the heartbeat that let's people know the park is a living, breathing entity. As you enter, the vision of the DLRR Station is above you, perhaps not as iconic as the castle which has been used as branding of Disney for years, but almost as iconic to the subconscious which has noted it every single time one enters the park. From so many places in the park, the sound of the whistle reminds you of that energy... and as Steve has already mentioned, 75% of the guests ride the train, either as an attraction unto itself, but at the very least to get from one part of the park to the next.

    Kids today, while certainly more electronic-centric than previous generations, STILL get excited at the sight of animals and definitely at the sight of Dinosaurs...especially life sized, moving dinosaurs.

    I don't think this is JUST about nostalgia. But nostalgia is a large part why the park has charm. Whether people are conscious of it or not, nostalgia for times gone by, stereotypically more simple times (I say this, because realistically, they weren't necessarily more simple, just cluttered by different types of things and burdened by other weighty matters), is and was a large part of what makes Disneyland special. I can't imagine anyone would want Main Street redesigned to represent a 21st century shopping mall, decorated with modern Old Navy Store Fronts, Starbucks logos, and perhaps a mini-Target.

    While children don't have context to appreciate nostalgia in the same way, they, when allowed, find excitement in seldom visited outdoor vistas of the Grand Canyon populated with animals they would be fortunate to spot in the wild. And while we know the presentation of this as a throwback, since they rarely see dioramas in any form, they will see it as "Something they have never seen." Yes, I'm certain some people see it as a tad corny...but what's wrong with that? The cynicism that we are experiencing now is a pendulum that swings back and forth. People crave corny with some frequency, and that pendulum is due for a swing back.

    Update lights? sure. Enhance audio... absolutely. Create a better transition, nah, it's not necessary, the transition from one locale to a similar millions of years before is done with narration and in our minds. It still works.

    That's the best way to sum up this attraction, it still works. And it works beautifully.
    Very well-said. This pretty much sums it up.

  14. #239

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    +1. Excellent post, Pirate Lover 68!
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Timicus View Post
    Um, I think you mean Inner Space> Star Tours. Unless there was some sort of attraction based on the Dennis Quaid/Martin Short movie I am aware of.
    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Interesting that you compare Innerspace to Buzz Lightyear and not Star Tours which actually replaced Innerspace.
    I was recalling from personal experiences of ATIS when I was 10 and remembered it being on the wrong side.

    The point of my post was to show that sometimes getting rid of the old doesn't mean you might actually get something better. There are lots of bad possibilities that could become of the Diorama space like walling it up and making it storage space or turning it into an advertising showcase of the latests Disney products. With the way things have been lately, they might do some kind of projection based experience similar to Finding Nemo which I think is worse cause usually animatronics are better than projections.

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