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  1. #271

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by frollofan View Post
    That would spoil the magic in my opinion, and plus Disneyland isn't a museum.
    I think it's OK. They show the creation of Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln during the preshow and it doesn't take away from that.

  2. #272

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorQ9 View Post
    At the time of its opening in 1958, the diorama was the longest in the world at 306 ft., costing $367,000 to create as well as using 300 gallons of paint


    One problem that I have is with the current narration (or lack of one) is when you approach the diorama. The narrator simply says "And now the Grand Canyon!" and then music plays until Primeval World appears. Back in 1958 the diorama might have been exciting all by itself, but times change. How about a new narration that goes into the making of the diorama, its place in the history books, and how Walt came to acquire it?
    I really really liked this idea--sort of gives the diorama more purpose as its placement now is somewhat random. Also gives a showcases how it's a piece of Disneyland history, for those guests who don't understand. Like another poster said, some pictures before and after would be great, and would explain the diorama's simplistic nature.

  3. #273

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by clippers6 View Post
    That's a great point and your suggestion would actually be a great compromise between preserving a piece of Disney history and meeting the expectations of the modern guest.
    Why does the modern guest require the spoon-feeding of narration? When did the modern guest lose his ability to engage his imagination, while listening to classical musis and looking at a static diorama?

    Over and over again we see the same suggestion that the "modern audience" is simply unable to use his or her own imaginations.

    If that is the case, I suppose Disneyland may very well have been completed...

  4. #274

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    When did the modern guest lose his ability to engage his imagination, while listening to classical musis and looking at a static diorama?
    I'd say it was in the late '90s. Fast computers, broadband internet, social media (including message boards like this)...basically advances in technology since that time. People don't have to use their imagination from everything from movies to videogames to theme park attractions.

    Ask any kid if they'd rather go on the Transformers ride or the Disneyland Railroad through a static diorama. 99% would say the former.

    I'm not saying it's better now, but it is what it is.

  5. #275

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    I personally agree that Disneyland could go further to inform the casual visitor of the diorama's unique and historic nature, particularly since expectations might be skewed by its proximity to Primeval World. But I'm thankful that DL uses a range of technologies and formats, including some very old ones.

    The steam engines on the trains--those could have been replaced a long time ago, but that would change it from an authentic experience to a sham one. The fireworks--hey, a laser show would be far, far cheaper. When we ride the carousel, we're going around in circles not only as our great-great grandparents did, but perhaps sitting on the very same horses.

    It's not conservatism, or nostalgia, to acknowledge that some things already are what they should be.

  6. #276

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    I think the loss of imagination occurred on the day that Fantasmic! made its debut. Mickey screamed, "This is my imagination!" That was no coincidence. Walt Disney wanted his guests to use their own imaginations. The Walt Disney Company wants their guests to imagine only in the way that the corporation sees fit -- after all if they can get everyone thinking a certain way, they can more easily control what they all spend...

  7. #277

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Why does the modern guest require the spoon-feeding of narration? When did the modern guest lose his ability to engage his imagination, while listening to classical musis and looking at a static diorama?

    Over and over again we see the same suggestion that the "modern audience" is simply unable to use his or her own imaginations.

    If that is the case, I suppose Disneyland may very well have been completed...
    What do you have against one or two lines of narration that would help people put an experience into better perspective? Times change as do people's expectations. Many early guests to Disneyland and Walt Disney World watched TV series that explained the inspiration behind attractions and often detailed the story behind their creation. Guests today do not have that benefit so why not spend a few seconds to educate them and enchance their appreciation of an attraction? Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln does so in its preshow as does Captain EO. The Mark Twain has some educational narration and the Red Car Trolley points out some of the inspiration behind Buena Vista Street. You can disagree with audio animatronics or 3D dinosaurs, but being against a few lines of narration before the attraction even starts?

  8. #278

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    I really really liked this idea--sort of gives the diorama more purpose as its placement now is somewhat random. Also gives a showcases how it's a piece of Disneyland history, for those guests who don't understand. Like another poster said, some pictures before and after would be great, and would explain the diorama's simplistic nature.
    Please explain how its placement is random.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  9. #279

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Please explain how its placement is random.
    Nah, I see his point. It is kind of random, to board the Tomorrowland station and all of a sudden find yourself propelled into the Grand Canyon.

    Particularly since official maps like Maps | Disneyland Resort don't even mention either the diorama or Primeval World.

    Gee...neither does this one: http://adisneyland.disney.go.com/med...LowbandMap.pdf


    Honestly: I'm looking through every contemporary map I can find, and I'm not seeing them anywhere. Maybe we can all agree that DL could do a better job of letting people know they exist.

  10. #280

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    The diorama is the BEST part of the train ride. I loved it as a child and now taking my 4 year old, he thinks it's the greatest thing ever. I honestly think my heart would break if they took it away. I understand though that change is inevitable, but...ugh. *clutches chest*

  11. #281

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by von Drake View Post
    Nah, I see his point. It is kind of random, to board the Tomorrowland station and all of a sudden find yourself propelled into the Grand Canyon.

    Particularly since official maps like Maps | Disneyland Resort don't even mention either the diorama or Primeval World.

    Gee...neither does this one: http://adisneyland.disney.go.com/med...LowbandMap.pdf


    Honestly: I'm looking through every contemporary map I can find, and I'm not seeing them anywhere. Maybe we can all agree that DL could do a better job of letting people know they exist.
    It's not supposed to be part of Tomorrowland so I don't see the problem. It was placed as the train ride's finale, not random at all.

    The fact that you leave Tomorrowland and enter the Grand Canyon is just as drastic as leaving Tomorrowland on the other side and crossing small town turn-of-the-century America before walking into the old west. Once you leave the land, you leave that land's theming behind. Since the diorama is not in Tomorrowland, it doesn't need that theming.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  12. #282

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Why does the modern guest require the spoon-feeding of narration? When did the modern guest lose his ability to engage his imagination, while listening to classical musis and looking at a static diorama?

    Over and over again we see the same suggestion that the "modern audience" is simply unable to use his or her own imaginations.
    Spoon-feeding the "kiddies" has been part of the Disney management mindset since the advent of Eisner, who cut his teeth as a children's TV exec, and Iger, former ABC-TV exec. Their non-creative "by the numbers" style of storytelling is at the core of the stultifying corporate groupthink that informs such on-the-nose exercises as Tarzan's Treehouse and Nemo Submarines. Disney calls it "relevance." People who tell stories for a living call it a bunch of suits who wouldn't know imagination if it bit 'em.


    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    The fact that you leave Tomorrowland and enter the Grand Canyon is just as drastic as leaving Tomorrowland on the other side and crossing small town turn-of-the-century America before walking into the old west. Once you leave the land, you leave that land's theming behind. Since the diorama is not in Tomorrowland, it doesn't need that theming.
    Bingo.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 12-02-2012 at 07:34 PM.
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  13. #283

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Please explain how its placement is random.
    You go from the backstage view of 'futuristic' Tomorrowland to the Grand Canyon--sure you're not in Tomorrowland anymore but we just got back from Critter Country and Frontierland, so it seems weird to regress. Not to mention, I had no idea it was coming when I first rode the train and just thought it didn't match the rest of the train ride, which was all very practical. I'm not saying I didn't like it it was just a jarring change of pace from the rest of the train's flow.

  14. #284

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Spoon-feeding the "kiddies" has been part of the Disney management mindset since the advent of Eisner, who cut his teeth as a children's TV exec, and Iger, former ABC-TV exec. Their non-creative "by the numbers" style of storytelling is at the core of the stultifying corporate groupthink that informs such on-the-nose exercises as Tarzan's Treehouse and Nemo Submarines. Disney calls it "relevance." People who tell stories for a living call it a bunch of suits who wouldn't know imagination if it bit 'em.
    Having a narration of where the dioramas come from wouldn't be 'spoon-feeding to kiddies' though--I, as an adult, would love to hear about some Disneyland history while I'm on the train. Not everyone is as in the know as the majority of posters on here, so giving them some history and interesting facts wouldn't be offensive--I mean you can't expect everyone that goes into Disneyland to know everything you know.

  15. #285

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    If they got rid of the Grand Canyon diorama I would have a sad... It's a beautiful diorama.

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