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  1. #286

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Spoon-feeding the "kiddies" has been part of the Disney management mindset since the advent of Eisner, who cut his teeth as a children's TV exec, and Iger, former ABC-TV exec. Their non-creative "by the numbers" style of storytelling is at the core of the stultifying corporate groupthink that informs such on-the-nose exercises as Tarzan's Treehouse and Nemo Submarines. Disney calls it "relevance." People who tell stories for a living call it a bunch of suits who wouldn't know imagination if it bit 'em.
    I wish Grizzly River Rapids, Soarin' and California Screamin' would stop jamming their stories down my throat, haha.

    In all seriousness, I'll agree with you that Tarzan's Treehouse was a horrible idea, but in terms of "spoon-feeding the kiddies" as you call it, the original Submarine Voyage did that way more than the Nemo version does. The original had a very cohesive story and was a better attraction IMO because of it. The Finding Nemo version has the captain step aside early on and most of the attraction is just fish and turtles swimming around and saying things.

  2. #287

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    You go from the backstage view of 'futuristic' Tomorrowland to the Grand Canyon--sure you're not in Tomorrowland anymore but we just got back from Critter Country and Frontierland, so it seems weird to regress. Not to mention, I had no idea it was coming when I first rode the train and just thought it didn't match the rest of the train ride, which was all very practical. I'm not saying I didn't like it it was just a jarring change of pace from the rest of the train's flow.
    Can you imagine how confusing it will be to guests if they end up incorporating the railroad in the whatever replaces Innoventions? One second you're looking at Iron Man, then you're at the Grand Canyon, and then dinosaurs!

  3. #288

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by drjeep View Post
    Perhaps, and I may be completely wrong (as I do), how one views the diorama is how one views the train itself? I'm getting that impression. I think one is directly tied to the other with the ones who are indifferent to the train (as myself) being the only ones who can separate the two in their minds. Perhaps perhaps.
    This observation does not apply to myself at all. I want to see the Grand Circle Tour be worthy of Disneyland. The Disneyland Railroad is the most important attraction of them all. To be creative, though, an artistic decision has to have some logic underpinning the original idea. So, ask yourself why the Disneyland Railroad leaves the turn-of-the-19th Century Main Street, U.S.A. to travel through the Four Cardinal Realms of the Imagination only to conclude with a visit to the Grand Canyon?

    The reason is the Santa Fe Railroad. And, something like the Grand Canyon diorama has, as such, become outmoded and now belongs somewhere like the Disneyland Hotel where the mid-20th Century Modernist architecture there is itself a product of its time of construction.

  4. #289

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    I just don't understand why the concept of leaving Tomorrowland and entering the Grand Canyon is so hard to understand. I would think that the Grand Canyon will look pretty much the same as portrayed in the diorama many thousands of years from now (barring, of course, any major catastrophes). When you view the diorama what's not to say that you in fact have still not left the world of Tomorrow?

  5. #290

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    I just don't understand why the concept of leaving Tomorrowland and entering the Grand Canyon is so hard to understand. I would think that the Grand Canyon will look pretty much the same as portrayed in the diorama many thousands of years from now (barring, of course, any major catastrophes). When you view the diorama what's not to say that you in fact have still not left the world of Tomorrow?
    It's not hard to understand, it's aesthetically jarring

  6. #291

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    It's not hard to understand, it's aesthetically jarring
    I don't see how it's aesthetically jarring when Tommorowland itself represents a past ideal of the future and always seems to need a face lift.

  7. #292

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    The Grand Canyon is, well, in the West. It might be less jarring if it was in Frontierland. Besides, the narration already addresses the jumping back millions of years into the time of dinosaurs. There's room for an earlier transition.

  8. #293

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Well that's not fair we have no idea where Tomorrowland is placed. It could very well be in Arizona for all we know. I never had a problem with the transition as a kid, and found it easy to grasp that it was a future to present to past sort of thing.

  9. #294

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenimph View Post
    I don't see how it's aesthetically jarring when Tommorowland itself represents a past ideal of the future and always seems to need a face lift.
    Aesthetics deals with visuals and atmosphere...sure, the Grand Canyon fits in to Tomorrowland abstractly because it will always be there, even in the future, but Tomorrowland presents itself as a sort of urban, sci-fi type area whereas the Grand Canyon gives off a rustic, rural atmosphere. That's why it's aesthetically jarring. No one is saying it's thematically jarring--just aesthetics.

  10. #295

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenimph View Post
    Well that's not fair we have no idea where Tomorrowland is placed. It could very well be in Arizona for all we know. I never had a problem with the transition as a kid, and found it easy to grasp that it was a future to present to past sort of thing.
    My point is that the tunnel sequence ISN'T in Tomorrowland. It's in a nether region all its own, which doesn't even seem to show up on the maps.

    At the very least, they could put it on the maps as Timeleaps Tunnel. You jump back into a Grand Canyon before man, and then the same scene waaay before man, when the canyon was just a rivulet and swamp.

    Time travel's futuristic.

    At the very least, I have to ask: WHY are both attractions missing from the maps?

  11. #296

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by von Drake View Post

    At the very least, I have to ask: WHY are both attractions missing from the maps?
    I am going to hazard a guess. My guess would be that in the mind of the people who decide these kinds of things, the diorama and the primeval world are part of the DLRR and not their own individual attractions.

    (Cheap Joke Start)
    Also this forum thread is starting to look a little worn and out of date perhaps it's time to send it to Yesterland.
    (Cheap Joke End)

  12. #297

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by drjeep View Post
    I
    Also this forum thread is starting to look a little worn and out of date perhaps it's time to send it to Yesterland.
    A little worn? Tell that to the folks at The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

  13. #298

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    It's not hard to understand, it's aesthetically jarring
    It's no more "aesthetically jarring" than stepping out of the future into a small turn-of-the-century town.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  14. #299

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    It's no more "aesthetically jarring" than stepping out of the future into a small turn-of-the-century town.
    The most aesthetically jarring part of the Grand Circle Tour to me is Mickey's Toontown Station. It's clearly in Fantasyland and unless you get the excursion cars you don't even see Toontown.

    I guess the diorama is a bit random in the sense that if you showed someone that had never been to Disneyland a map of the park and asked them what they'd expect to see on each part of the railroad they'd probably guess each part fairly accurately.
    Adventureland - jungle, animal sounds
    NO Square - Mardi Gras decorations, the French Quarter
    Critter Country - critters (Splash Mountain)
    Frontierland - nature, American Indians
    Fantasyland - stretching it, but Fantasyland theater does have an "olden times" look
    Toontown - shouldn't be on the list IMO, but the station does have cartoon style decor
    Tomorrowland - energy, motion, technology (monorail/Autopia), robots/environmentality (agrifuture sign)
    But when you get to the stretch between Tomorrowland and Main St. I don't think a natural wonder and dinosaurs would be anyone's first guess. They do announce the visit to the Grand Canyon and Primeval World, but many people still seem surprised (not necessarily a good or bad thing).

    Someone mentioned moving the diorama to the area between Frontierland and Fantasyland. Personally I don't mind the current location (the randomness is not an issue to me), but I'd be all for a move if it meant the railroad could continue to operate during fireworks.

  15. #300

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    I say leave it alone unless they're gonna spruce it up a bit and make it better and more dynamic. I've always enjoyed that portion of the DLRR trip.

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