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  1. #301

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by clippers6 View Post
    What do you have against one or two lines of narration that would help people put an experience into better perspective? ...Guests today do not have that benefit so why not spend a few seconds to educate them and enchance their appreciation of an attraction?...You can disagree with audio animatronics or 3D dinosaurs, but being against a few lines of narration before the attraction even starts?
    Yes, I'm against it. There's no need for "persepctive." Narration explaining that it's the worlds largest diorama, built at a cost of blah blah blah and painted on a seamless canvas that took blah blah blah linnear feet of the finest cotton twill is completely antithetical to what the experience is all about. That one simple line "And now, the Grand Canyon!" was not written "And now, the Grand Canyon Diorama!" for a reason.

    It's supposed to be a visceral experience--not a lesson in diorama construction.

  2. #302

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    It's not hard to understand, it's aesthetically jarring
    I can see how this could be an issue, but I don't think it's that big of one to be concerned about. Look at it this way: the Tomorrowland portion of the train starts from after IASW and ends at the station. From the station on, it's the finale and then back to Main Street Station.

    There is really no way for it not to be a little jarring, I get that. But I don't think many people board the train from Tomorrowland and then as soon as they see the diorama say "Hey wait a minute!! What's going on here?!" I don't think it's that big of an issue.

  3. #303

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by explodingboy View Post
    I can see how this could be an issue, but I don't think it's that big of one to be concerned about. Look at it this way: the Tomorrowland portion of the train starts from after IASW and ends at the station. From the station on, it's the finale and then back to Main Street Station.

    There is really no way for it not to be a little jarring, I get that. But I don't think many people board the train from Tomorrowland and then as soon as they see the diorama say "Hey wait a minute!! What's going on here?!" I don't think it's that big of an issue.
    Well right, it's not ruining anybody's day by any means haha. I guess the other thing to consider is that not everyone is riding the train full circle, so when going from Tomorrowland to NOS, the dioramas are not the grand finale, but are just there.
    I guess I like the narration idea because in my opinion, the train shouldn't be a time traveler (yes, I know, it travels through different lands of different time periods) but a trip around the park showcasing Disneyland. So the dioramas seem out of place when looking at the train in that regard. And a narration detailing its history would make it seem (in my opinion) more in place because it would become a testament to Disneyland history, not a random diorama that really isn't all that convincing and is only appreciated to the fullest when recognizing what it is (before this board, I had no idea it was the longest mural or a relic of the World's Fair...now I'll appreciate it more).

  4. #304

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Yes, I'm against it. There's no need for "persepctive." Narration explaining that it's the worlds largest diorama, built at a cost of blah blah blah and painted on a seamless canvas that took blah blah blah linnear feet of the finest cotton twill is completely antithetical to what the experience is all about. That one simple line "And now, the Grand Canyon!" was not written "And now, the Grand Canyon Diorama!" for a reason.

    It's supposed to be a visceral experience--not a lesson in diorama construction.
    I'm not sure there would be enough time to give a lesson on diorama construction even if they wanted to. The safety spiel takes up a lot of the time between Tomorrowland Station and the diorama. I think one line about how Walt Disney wanted a grand finale before the train returned to Main Street and one line about the significance of the diorama would be enough perspective. It would take less than 10 seconds and they could supplement it with a display or brochure available at Main Street Station if you wanted to learn more. I still remember when you could go to City Hall and request a brochure about it's a small world.

    Disneyland has different types of experiences. On most you pretend that you are actually experiencing a real adventure. When you are on the Jungle Cruise you are to believe that you're really on a river in the jungle looking at wild animals. That's why on such attractions they have taken steps to give a greater sense of realism over the years, for example the replacement of the early basic Jungle Cruise animals with more advanced AAs.

    The diorama was never intended to be one of those realistic experiences. It belongs to a smaller group of Disney attractions that were designed to showcase an art form and/or technology. Other examples would include the Disney Gallery, Art of Animation, Innoventions, Mr. Lincoln, CircleVision, and StorybookLand. When you watch Wonders of China you were never supposed to believe you were in China; you were supposed to enjoy the art of CircleVision filmmaking and maybe learn a thing or two about China in the process. The StorybookLand Canal Boats isn't a realistic depiction of being eaten by a whale, but is a showcase of miniatures. Likewise, the diorama was always supposed to showcase a diorama. If you want proof, check out the original poster:
    Name:  2297051091_5f3c0341d7_o.jpg
Views: 122
Size:  169.2 KB
    It'd actually be cool to see that poster at the entrance of the diorama; anything interesting to look at is better than just looking at the back of the Innoventions building. Anyways, there is nothing wrong about featuring a diorama. The disconnect comes from guests who don't understand why every other attraction they've seen that day had fully moving AA figures, but this one doesn't. It's not really ignorance when there is absolutely nothing to explain that this was just intended to be a diorama. This is compounded by the fact that it is immediately followed by the Primeval World which better resembles what most guest expect from Disney. Notice no other Disney park puts both side by side.
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    Last edited by clippers6; 12-03-2012 at 09:22 AM.

  5. #305

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by clippers6 View Post
    I'm not sure there would be enough time to give a lesson on diorama construction even if they wanted to. The safety spiel takes up a lot of the time between Tomorrowland Station and the diorama. I think one line about how Walt Disney wanted a grand finale before the train returned to Main Street and one line about the significance of the diorama would be enough perspective. It would take less than 10 seconds and they could supplement it with a display or brochure available at Main Street Station if you wanted to learn more. I still remember when you could go to City Hall and request a brochure about it's a small world.

    Disneyland has different types of experiences. On most you pretend that you are actually experiencing a real adventure. When you are on the Jungle Cruise you are to believe that you're really on a river in the jungle looking at wild animals. That's why on such attractions they have taken steps to give a greater sense of realism over the years, for example the replacement of the early basic Jungle Cruise animals with more advanced AAs.

    The diorama was never intended to be one of those realistic experiences. It belongs to a smaller group of Disney attractions that were designed to showcase an art form and/or technology. Other examples would include the Disney Gallery, Art of Animation, Innoventions, Mr. Lincoln, CircleVision, and StorybookLand. When you watch Wonders of China you were never supposed to believe you were in China; you were supposed to enjoy the art of CircleVision filmmaking and maybe learn a thing or two about China in the process. The StorybookLand Canal Boats isn't a realistic depiction of being eaten by a whale, but is a showcase of miniatures. Likewise, the diorama was always supposed to showcase a diorama. If you want proof, check out the original poster:

    It'd actually be cool to see that poster at the entrance of the diorama; anything interesting to look at is better than just looking at the back of the Innoventions building. Anyways, there is nothing wrong about featuring a diorama. The disconnect comes from guests who don't understand why every other attraction they've seen that day had fully moving AA figures, but this one doesn't. It's not really ignorance when there is absolutely nothing to explain that this was just intended to be a diorama. This is compounded by the fact that it is immediately followed by the Primeval World which better resembles what most guest expect from Disney. Notice no other Disney park puts both side by side.
    This. The dioramas are obviously not meant to be 'real'. A much greater appreciation could be drawn from what some may think is nothing more than a 'fake' and 'corny' display if they gave some background information on it. Plus, who doesn't love Disney history? I think you nailed it clippers6

  6. #306

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by ww12345 View Post
    I compared them, and I'm fairly certain that the one that was paired with Sleeping Beauty is not the one used - the cadences are timed a bit differently. Bernstein had his own, fairly unique way of conducting the Grand Canyon Suite, and it is pretty much right on with the audio played during the diorama. Either way, the audio is pretty clear, it is the train speakers which are sadly deficient.
    I know this thread has moved way beyond this, but for the record it appears the music used is in fact from the film that was paired with Sleeping Beauty, not a Bernstein recording.

    WDL-4019 Grand Canyon Suite

  7. #307

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by clippers6 View Post
    I'm not sure there would be enough time to give a lesson on diorama construction even if they wanted to. The safety spiel takes up a lot of the time between Tomorrowland Station and the diorama. I think one line about how Walt Disney wanted a grand finale before the train returned to Main Street and one line about the significance of the diorama would be enough perspective. It would take less than 10 seconds and they could supplement it with a display or brochure available at Main Street Station if you wanted to learn more. I still remember when you could go to City Hall and request a brochure about it's a small world.

    Disneyland has different types of experiences. On most you pretend that you are actually experiencing a real adventure. When you are on the Jungle Cruise you are to believe that you're really on a river in the jungle looking at wild animals. That's why on such attractions they have taken steps to give a greater sense of realism over the years, for example the replacement of the early basic Jungle Cruise animals with more advanced AAs.

    The diorama was never intended to be one of those realistic experiences. It belongs to a smaller group of Disney attractions that were designed to showcase an art form and/or technology. Other examples would include the Disney Gallery, Art of Animation, Innoventions, Mr. Lincoln, CircleVision, and StorybookLand. When you watch Wonders of China you were never supposed to believe you were in China; you were supposed to enjoy the art of CircleVision filmmaking and maybe learn a thing or two about China in the process. The StorybookLand Canal Boats isn't a realistic depiction of being eaten by a whale, but is a showcase of miniatures. Likewise, the diorama was always supposed to showcase a diorama. If you want proof, check out the original poster:

    It'd actually be cool to see that poster at the entrance of the diorama; anything interesting to look at is better than just looking at the back of the Innoventions building. Anyways, there is nothing wrong about featuring a diorama. The disconnect comes from guests who don't understand why every other attraction they've seen that day had fully moving AA figures, but this one doesn't. It's not really ignorance when there is absolutely nothing to explain that this was just intended to be a diorama. This is compounded by the fact that it is immediately followed by the Primeval World which better resembles what most guest expect from Disney. Notice no other Disney park puts both side by side.
    I really like this idea a lot.

  8. #308

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Why do we have to replace the Diorama and Primevil world? There's plenty of blank space that can they add other things if needed. Hell, after the Toontown Depot there's plenty of wires and ladders and unsightly monorail beams to looks at. Why replace something plenty of people like when there's ample space to add something new if need be?

  9. #309

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by clippers6 View Post
    It'd actually be cool to see that poster at the entrance of the diorama; anything interesting to look at is better than just looking at the back of the Innoventions building.
    I agree with you here. I'm all about bringing back some classic attraction posters.

  10. #310

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    The dioramas are one of the great differentiators that Disneyland has over the other castle parks. I think Paris is the only other park to have something like this on its railroad, and it lacks the historic tie-in that the one at Disneyland does. It's sort of an easter egg for the park.

    Since the diorama shares a back wall with offices in the same building, I'd be all for moving the offices, demolishing that back wall, and re-doing the diorama scenes to be more expansive. That could be really cool.

  11. #311

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by clippers6 View Post
    Likewise, the diorama was always supposed to showcase a diorama. If you want proof, check out the original poster:
    Name:  2297051091_5f3c0341d7_o.jpg
Views: 122
Size:  169.2 KB
    Where did you find this poster? Was it done by Mary Blair? It's terrific!
    Everyone is entitled to an informed opinion.
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    There should be a sticky thread called "This Day in Disney History." The company has a long history and this would be a good way to acknowledge it. Walt was born 112 years ago; that's quite a chunk of American history and culture.

  12. #312

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Yes, I'm against it. There's no need for "persepctive." Narration explaining that it's the worlds largest diorama, built at a cost of blah blah blah and painted on a seamless canvas that took blah blah blah linnear feet of the finest cotton twill is completely antithetical to what the experience is all about. That one simple line "And now, the Grand Canyon!" was not written "And now, the Grand Canyon Diorama!" for a reason.

    It's supposed to be a visceral experience--not a lesson in diorama construction.
    I completely agree, most people do not go to Disneyland to hear a history lesson on the construction of the diorama. A quick intro about what they are going to encounter in the tunnel is enough info for the guests in my opinion, and if some people are curious on the history, they can always go home and look it up.

  13. #313

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by frollofan View Post
    I completely agree, most people do not go to Disneyland to hear a history lesson on the construction of the diorama. A quick intro about what they are going to encounter in the tunnel is enough info for the guests in my opinion, and if some people are curious on the history, they can always go home and look it up.
    How can it hurt to have at least a little background on it in the narration? Do you have the same principle about the safety spiel in the beginning? Dude, if you hate it that much, just ignore it, but I think it could be really beneficial to the Disneyland park guests' overall train experience.

  14. #314

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by frollofan View Post
    they can always go home and look it up.
    Or wait until they get on the next dark ride and look it up on their iPad with the brightness turned all the way up.
    Last edited by calsig31; 12-04-2012 at 01:33 AM.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Or wait until they get on the next dark ride and look it up on their iPad with the brightness turned all te way up.

    LOL, most likely in the row right in front of me on Pirates.

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