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  1. #331

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    That attaction was open for 8 years before Walt died. Pretty sure he probably rode the train more than just about any attraction. Saw the Diorama maybe hundreds of times.

    Guess he approved.
    He also approved of many attractions that have made way for far superior attractions that make Disneyland what it is today

  2. #332

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Why not explain why?
    Why does everything need an explanation?

    Sorta sad that so many of us feel we need to be dependent on others to spoon-feed us our information.

  3. #333

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Why does everything need an explanation?
    I don't think everything needs an explanation, nor did I imply in any of my posts that it does.

    This thread was about the possibility that the dioramas have lost their excitement value. It has come to the point where people are saying it should stay because of its historic significance. But the average guest doesn't know that! So why not tell them why they are passing through a quirky and decidedly outdated diorama in the middle of a train ride around Disneyland? Disneyland is about catering to the average guest, not us. I'm sure a lot of us wanted the Mine Train Through Nature's Wonderland to stay too, because of the nostalgia, memories, and history associated with it, but Disney decided that more guests would appreciate a much-needed thrill ride rather than a historical little artifact of a ride.

    So let's explain why it's there, and why even though it's outdated and arguably out of place, it's still there. In fact, after learning so much about it on this thread alone, I have a lot more appreciation for it and I bet other guests on the train would do given the opportunity to learn about it.

  4. #334

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    You know, sometimes knowledge can help people appreciate something without spoon feeding them.

    I don't necessarily think that a narration at the diorama would work, but on the other hand, the train voiceover explains all sorts of other things in the park, like the monorail (my memory is spotty here for some reason - they explain the history of the monorail ON the monorail, don't they? Not the train?). Also, the more people know about history the more they appreciate it, sometimes.

    Case in point: I love the diorama regardless. However, I'm originally from NYC and I used to love to go to the old World's Fair park (Flushing Meadows). When I found out that the diorama and iasw were from the World's Fair it made me connect to them more, because I felt like it was a bit of my East Coast home - and something that was special to me - transplanted to California.

    Something explaining the diorama would be nice, in that regard, even if it doesn't involve changing the voiceover. There are those visiting Disney who WOULD be interested in knowing more about it. Perhaps a small exhibit or information in the Disney Gallery? They have an exhibit there right now about the DLRR, in fact. Is there anything about the diorama?
    Last edited by Malina; 12-04-2012 at 11:41 AM.

  5. #335

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    I don't necessarily think that a narration at the diorama would work, but on the other hand, the train voiceover explains all sorts of other things in the park, like the monorail (my memory is spotty here for some reason - they explain the history of the monorail ON the monorail, don't they? Not the train?).
    The narration on the train mentions that the monorail opened in 1959 and was the first daily operating monorail in the Western Hemisphere.

  6. #336

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Sorta sad that so many of us feel we need to be dependent on others to spoon-feed us our information.
    Also, was this really necessary? I understand that you love the train and wrote a book on it or whatever, but you're no better than anyone else here, and your opinion is equal to everyone else's on this board. So, I think we'd all appreciate it if you stopped talking down to everyone and treating anyone who doesn't share your opinion like second-rate citizens. It makes you come off as extremely insecure, especially when you address the tiniest parts of posts that have otherwise good points. I'm trying to be helpful because talking down to people will not help you in life, and I don't want you to keep making that mistake. Looking out for you buddy.

  7. #337

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Sorta sad that so many of us feel we need to be dependent on others to spoon-feed us our information.

    Is that what you ask/tell your readers, Dear Author?

    Don't be hypocritical here. If you don't want a few lines to explain the diorama for whatever reason (preservation/reduction of artistic integrity/disrupts your nap/whatever), that is fine and I get that. But to take the "spoon-fed" stance akin to the spoon-feeding found on FNSV, is just silly. You've stated that you are not for it, but now you are shooting down someone's desire for a bit of info.

    Asking for knowledge is totallllly different than asking for a contrived and dumbed down and ill placed storyline...
    The same way your book and/or blog are not spoon-feeding your audience, 10 seconds of narration of the historical significance of the GC Diorama is not spoon-feeding a tiny bit of DL history.
    ~Jay

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    "Bless you." ~ My Grandfather
    (Disneyland, circa 1957)


  8. #338

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by clippers6 View Post
    The narration on the train mentions that the monorail opened in 1959 and was the first daily operating monorail in the Western Hemisphere.
    Aha. Thanks for clarifying that! I couldn't remember if they said something about that on the train or just on the monorail.

  9. #339

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    What experience? The music and suggested narration can coexist perfectly well
    Not really. The music and the scenery coexist together in a way that takes you to another place. Having narration over that would be an unnecessary intrusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    It's not trying to actually sell you the idea that you're in the Grand Canyon, whereas in Pirates it is trying to sell you the idea that you are in the bayou, and you don't need a narration on its history for it to make sense.
    Actually they do try to make it appear that you are in the Grand Canyon. When leaving Tomorrowland, the narration on the train says, “the next leg of our journey will take us along the rim of the Grand Canyon.” Between the two scenes they tell you that you are traveling back in time to the Primeval World. Once leaving that, they tell you that you are returning to your own time. Adding narration to this would ruin the illusion that they are setting up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    Perhaps a small exhibit or information in the Disney Gallery? They have an exhibit there right now about the DLRR, in fact. Is there anything about the diorama?
    That would be a perfect place for it.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  10. #340

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Not really. The music and the scenery coexist together in a way that takes you to another place. Having narration over that would be an unnecessary intrusion.

    Actually they do try to make it appear that you are in the Grand Canyon. When leaving Tomorrowland, the narration on the train says, “the next leg of our journey will take us along the rim of the Grand Canyon.” Between the two scenes they tell you that you are traveling back in time to the Primeval World. Once leaving that, they tell you that you are returning to your own time. Adding narration to this would ruin the illusion that they are setting up.
    You can't honestly tell me that you think the Grand Canyon Diorama and Pirates offer the same level of immersion. For one thing, Pirates is a full experience, not a smaller part of a larger overall attraction. Another thing is that Pirates takes place in a whole show building, while it is obvious that you are just going into a tunnel for the train ride. The diorama is much more obvious for what it is, while Pirates is a much fuller illusion and easier for mystified guests and especially little kids to suspend their disbelief. Pirates is immersive, and needs no explanation--the diorama would benefit from some voiceover, so as to explain to guests riding on a train through the backstage area of Tomorrowland why they're all of a sudden traveling through a tunnel.

  11. #341

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    The narration some of you propose was actually used in the early 1970s:

    "Ladies and gentlemen, please remain seated while the train is in motion, keep your hands and arms inside the train, and no smoking, please. Now we're about to enter the world's largest diorama: the Grand Canyon and Primeval World. First, we'll be travelling through the Grand Canyon as it is today. All the animals, trees and birds you will see are typical of those actually found at the Grand Canyon."

    But we can already see that the narration is moving toward making the experience more "real," by the way the spiel notes that "we'll be travelling through the Grand Canyon..." This is why later spiels were changed. The next several incarnations remove the idea of a diorama altogether in order to create a more immersive experience. There are later references to "sheepish animals" and the "long drop" to the Canyon's floor.

    Personally, I prefer to experience the "Grand Canyon," not a diorama of it. Same as I enjoy being in "the Caribbean," rather than on a boat ride going in a circle in a building.
    Last edited by Steve DeGaetano; 12-04-2012 at 01:05 PM.

  12. #342

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    You can't honestly tell me that you think the Grand Canyon Diorama and Pirates offer the same level of immersion. For one thing, Pirates is a full experience, not a smaller part of a larger overall attraction. Another thing is that Pirates takes place in a whole show building, while it is obvious that you are just going into a tunnel for the train ride. The diorama is much more obvious for what it is, while Pirates is a much fuller illusion and easier for mystified guests and especially little kids to suspend their disbelief. Pirates is immersive, and needs no explanation--the diorama would benefit from some voiceover, so as to explain to guests riding on a train through the backstage area of Tomorrowland why they're all of a sudden traveling through a tunnel.
    (POTC is really just an elaborate diorama)

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    You can't honestly tell me that you think the Grand Canyon Diorama and Pirates offer the same level of immersion.
    I never said it offered the same level of immersion. I said that they try to make it appear that you are entering the Grand Canyon as evidenced in the narration.

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Another thing is that Pirates takes place in a whole show building, while it is obvious that you are just going into a tunnel for the train ride.
    It would be kind of hard to put the entire railroad into its own show building. The building that they put the diorama in is perfect for what it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    the diorama would benefit from some voiceover, so as to explain to guests riding on a train through the backstage area of Tomorrowland why they're all of a sudden traveling through a tunnel.
    They already explained it when they say, “the next leg of our journey will take us along the rim of the Grand Canyon.” I don’t think anyone is expecting the rail line to actually travel to the Grand Canyon, nor do they expect Disney to build an outdoor replica of it in that small space. I think it meets expectations perfectly the way it is presented.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  14. #344

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    (POTC is really just an elaborate diorama)
    Someone just said this to me. Srsly, in real life, not ten min ago!
    How odd!

    I told them that it is a show that uses a diorama effect. If it is simply an elaborate diorama, then the set of your fave sitcom is a diorama. We may be just splitting hairs here, but I do think the whole-of-POTC is a much different thing than the whole-of-GCD. Even one scene of POTC is so very different than GCD!
    ~Jay

    "Ahh-chooo!" ~ Walt Disney
    "Bless you." ~ My Grandfather
    (Disneyland, circa 1957)


  15. #345

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    They already explained it when they say, “the next leg of our journey will take us along the rim of the Grand Canyon.” I don’t think anyone is expecting the rail line to actually travel to the Grand Canyon, nor do they expect Disney to build an outdoor replica of it in that small space. I think it meets expectations perfectly the way it is presented.
    You know, sometimes I don't agree with you but here..I agree 100%. I knew I wasn't going batty when I heard “the next leg of our journey will take us along the rim of the Grand Canyon.” when I rode the train last friday and every other time I've ridden it.....To me that explains enough.

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