Page 24 of 26 FirstFirst ... 14212223242526 LastLast
Results 346 to 360 of 377
  1. #346

    • Parking Lot > DCA
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Orange County, CA
    Posts
    4,384

    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    Aha. Thanks for clarifying that! I couldn't remember if they said something about that on the train or just on the monorail.
    I think it's said on the Monorail as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Personally, I prefer to experience the "Grand Canyon," not a diorama of it. Same as I enjoy being in "the Caribbean," rather than on a boat ride going in a circle in a building.
    I can respect that!

  2. #347

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    792

    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Originally the Grand Canyon Diorama was proudly advertised as a diorama. The fact that it was the largest in the world was used as a selling point. I think they realized what they had: a very nice diorama, but definitely nothing as realistic compared to then still fairly new rides such as Jungle Cruise and Nature's Wonderland. So they didn't try and advertise it as anything other than a diorama.
    Name:  dlrr2qm0.jpg
Views: 120
Size:  45.8 KB
    Name:  tms-447t.jpg
Views: 121
Size:  132.8 KB
    On the other hand, the other attractions received posters than gave the impression that you'd see real animals. The original Jungle Cruise poster even boasts of being a "true life adventure".
    Name:  tms-490.jpg
Views: 125
Size:  72.9 KB
    Name:  jungle-cruise.jpg
Views: 123
Size:  57.4 KB
    So when they added the Primeval World they faced the the dilemma of having a tranquil, natural history museum style diorama next to a realistic, AA filled one. The Primeval World was amazing for its time. I consider it more believable than Knott's Kingdom of the Dinosaurs despite the over 2 decade technological advantage Knott's had. Not that I don't have a spot in my heart for KotD too. So what did they do?
    Name:  DLRidePoster-29.jpg
Views: 122
Size:  35.2 KB
    They started selling the idea that Grand Canyon Diorama and Primeval World were one, unified immersive experience. The problem is that it wasn't. It is two separate experiences. The Primeval World was not originally conceived with any connection to the Grand Canyon. It was inspired by Fantasia. The time travel concept of going back to see how the Grand Canyon once looked was added to try and link the two. Such a dramatic shift in styles would be like riding Pirates but the first half is a wax museum.

    My opinion is that this movement away from acknowledging the diorama for what it is and selling it as something as equally immersive as the Primeval World was a mistake. The shift in styles as well as the set up of guest expectations is too extreme.
    Last edited by clippers6; 12-04-2012 at 02:24 PM.

  3. #348

    • Armchair Imagineer
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Sacramento
    Posts
    284

    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Outstanding argument, Clippers6! I loved the way that you framed it and presented the documentation.

    In fact, I believe that you have showed that a significant departure from Uncle Walt's original intent has already happened. Since you are "on a roll", how could Disney fix things?

  4. #349

    • -
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Uijeongbu
    Posts
    6,609

    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorQ9 View Post
    Since you are "on a roll", how could Disney fix things?
    Disney doesn't need to fix what isn't broken.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  5. #350

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Paper St
    Posts
    1,346

    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    I never said it offered the same level of immersion. I said that they try to make it appear that you are entering the Grand Canyon as evidenced in the narration.

    It would be kind of hard to put the entire railroad into its own show building. The building that they put the diorama in is perfect for what it is.

    They already explained it when they say, “the next leg of our journey will take us along the rim of the Grand Canyon.” I don’t think anyone is expecting the rail line to actually travel to the Grand Canyon, nor do they expect Disney to build an outdoor replica of it in that small space. I think it meets expectations perfectly the way it is presented.
    I never said they should put the railroad in a showbuilding--I'm saying it is more obvious, due to the train's nature, that the Grand Canyon is no more than a diorama, where as in Pirates of Haunted Mansion, you can much more easily let your imagination take you to a different place--that's because it's not part of a larger experience that clearly shows you the real world.

    Basically, the Grand Canyon is a diorama--it's not supposed to take you to a new world, it's a tunnel in the middle of a train ride in which before and after you are outside looking at the park. There's no thematic buildup, there's no explanation for it, it just happens. Guests, like the OP, may want to know why. It's not as obvious as the set design for the big dark rides, so some narration explaining it wouldn't hurt.

  6. #351

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Paper St
    Posts
    1,346

    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Disney doesn't need to fix what isn't broken.
    If it wasn't broken, threads like this wouldn't exist. There's obviously a population of guests that don't 'get it', and probably the majority of casual visitors not obsessed with Disney don't really understand it either. It's your opinion that it's not broken, but that isn't fact.

  7. #352

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    792

    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Disney doesn't need to fix what isn't broken.
    Is it broken? No.
    Could it be improved? Yes.

    If you asked me what I would change before this thread, I'd say minor changes to the lighting, music, and special effects. After reading through all 22 pages of this, I've actually found many interesting ideas. The one that intrigues me the most is Trevor's suggestion of moving the diorama to the area behind the Fantasyland theater. The benefits of that (possibility of trains running during the fireworks, buildings with better ventilation, reduced noise from the trains during Fantasyland Theater shows, better fit thematically, etc.) are certainly interesting. Plus you open up the current location for new experiences. I'm not sure on the logistics, but its worth discussing as the only thing you would really lose is a view of the side of the Fantasyland theater.

  8. #353

    • Sshhh, being very quiet
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    S. California
    Posts
    16,602

    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    If it wasn't broken, threads like this wouldn't exist.
    Uh..just because a thread is created doesn't mean it is absolutely broken. It just means that there is an opinion on it.

    And there will be an opposing opinion that the diorama is fine the way it is. I think it's fine the way it is but if it were to get some improvements or upgrades (not the same as "fixing" it because it's functionality works fine), I wouldn't have a problem with that either.

  9. #354

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Paper St
    Posts
    1,346

    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by clara View Post
    Uh..just because a thread is created doesn't mean it is absolutely broken. It just means that there is an opinion on it.

    And there will be an opposing opinion that the diorama is fine the way it is. I think it's fine the way it is but if it were to get some improvements or upgrades (not the same as "fixing" it because it's functionality works fine), I wouldn't have a problem with that either.
    Uh..sorry
    That's exactly what I meant, but I shouldn't have talked in absolutes. In any case, you're right, and I agree that so-called improvements can't hurt.

  10. #355

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Notre Dame
    Posts
    2,822

    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    How can it hurt to have at least a little background on it in the narration? Do you have the same principle about the safety spiel in the beginning? Dude, if you hate it that much, just ignore it, but I think it could be really beneficial to the Disneyland park guests' overall train experience.
    Where did I say I hated it? Hate is too strong of a word to describe my feelings towards it. If it did happen, I certainly would not thow a tantrum or freak out or lose sleep, but I would still express my opinion of it here on MiceChat. Anyways, it could definitely detract from the experience. I remember being a little kid and believing that the dinosaurs were real, and a narration proving the fakeness would only take away from the excitement, especially for younger ones. A simple intro that does not do anything but say what lies inside is enough. I don't see someone on an intercom on the lawn of the Haunted Mansion explaining the history, or a talking parrot explaining the history of POTC. Instead, I enter the attraction appreciating what the attraction has to offer to my senses. My main point is that I want it to be treated as an experience, and not a museum exhibit, even if it clearly looks fake inside. Also, the safety spiel is required to be there for guest safety, so I am fine with that.
    Last edited by frollofan; 12-04-2012 at 04:58 PM.

  11. #356

    • Herr Ducktor!
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    315

    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorQ9 View Post
    Outstanding argument, Clippers6! I loved the way that you framed it and presented the documentation.

    In fact, I believe that you have showed that a significant departure from Uncle Walt's original intent has already happened. Since you are "on a roll", how could Disney fix things?
    I agree! And despite a few bobbles, the level of discourse in this thread has been excellent. I honestly think that we're zeroing in on something worthwhile here, namely focusing some attention on a rarely-spotlighted part of the park.

    Me, I think there's only one thing that should change: They need to put CG/PW back on the maps!

  12. #357

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Paper St
    Posts
    1,346

    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by frollofan View Post
    Where did I say I hated it? Hate is too strong of a word to describe my feelings towards it. If it did happen, I certainly would not thow a tantrum or freak out or lose sleep, but I would still express my opinion of it here on MiceChat. Anyways, it could definitely detract from the experience. I remember being a little kid and believing that the dinosaurs were real, and a narration proving the fakeness would only take away from the excitement, especially for younger ones. A simple intro that does not do anything but say what lies inside is enough. I don't see someone on an intercom on the lawn of the Haunted Mansion explaining the history, or a talking parrot explaining the history of POTC. Instead, I enter the attraction appreciating what the attraction has to offer to my senses. My main point is that I want it to be treated as an experience, and not a museum exhibit, even if it clearly looks fake inside. Also, the safety spiel is required to be there for guest safety, so I am fine with that.
    As I've already said before, the Haunted Mansion and Pirates are in different leagues--they are immersive adventures, and are meant to be taken seriously, not as dioramas. A spiel explaining the history of these rides would be unnecessary, you are right, but that's because they are trying to sell you the real deal, while on the train it is pretty obvious after coming straight from the backstage area of Tomorrowland that you are just in a box for the Grand Canyon. Why not explain the history behind it so people appreciate it more and why it's there?

    The argument that you do have that holds up to me is the one about being a kid and believing it's all real. The suggestion to add narration and some light historical context is made assuming that kids think it's cheesy or fake, and average guests think it's out of place and hokey. Now, the expectations for kids today have changed, so there may very well be a lot more people/kids not buying into it than before, but again, this suggestion is made with the assumption that people aren't buying it like they do the larger dark rides.

  13. #358

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Notre Dame
    Posts
    2,822

    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    As I've already said before, the Haunted Mansion and Pirates are in different leagues--they are immersive adventures, and are meant to be taken seriously, not as dioramas. A spiel explaining the history of these rides would be unnecessary, you are right, but that's because they are trying to sell you the real deal, while on the train it is pretty obvious after coming straight from the backstage area of Tomorrowland that you are just in a box for the Grand Canyon. Why not explain the history behind it so people appreciate it more and why it's there?

    The argument that you do have that holds up to me is the one about being a kid and believing it's all real. The suggestion to add narration and some light historical context is made assuming that kids think it's cheesy or fake, and average guests think it's out of place and hokey. Now, the expectations for kids today have changed, so there may very well be a lot more people/kids not buying into it than before, but again, this suggestion is made with the assumption that people aren't buying it like they do the larger dark rides.
    I understand that it does not look real, but I do not want the narration to further emphasize that notion. The current spiel does a good job imo of introducing what is inside without saying "diorama" but only saying you are about to enter the "Grand Canyon." Also, in the dark transition, the narrator says we go back in time to the dinosaurs, doesn't that just add more excitement? Although the diorama is fake, the current narration adds some life/excitement to the diorama by not treating as one.

  14. #359

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Paper St
    Posts
    1,346

    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by frollofan View Post
    I understand that it does not look real, but I do not want the narration to further emphasize that notion. The current spiel does a good job imo of introducing what is inside without saying "diorama" but only saying you are about to enter the "Grand Canyon." Also, in the dark transition, the narrator says we go back in time to the dinosaurs, doesn't that just add more excitement? Although the diorama is fake, the current narration adds some life/excitement to the diorama by not treating as one.
    Fair point. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this issue, but I definitely see what you're saying!

  15. #360

    • ~
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Posts
    557

    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by frollofan View Post
    I understand that it does not look real, but I do not want the narration to further emphasize that notion. The current spiel does a good job imo of introducing what is inside without saying "diorama" but only saying you are about to enter the "Grand Canyon." Also, in the dark transition, the narrator says we go back in time to the dinosaurs, doesn't that just add more excitement? Although the diorama is fake, the current narration adds some life/excitement to the diorama by not treating as one.
    Totally agree with this. Great post!

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Fair point. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this issue, but I definitely see what you're saying!
    I think this issue just boils down to a personal preference. I personally wouldn't like dialogue explaining the diorama added to the train, for the reasons that frollofan pointed out. However, it would be something that I could easily ignore, and nothing in comparison to losing the diorama.

Similar Threads

  1. [Review] Grand Canyon Diorama and Primeval World Attraction (The Best!)
    By ozmacity in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 77
    Last Post: 05-04-2011, 09:26 AM
  2. [Question] Is the Grand Canyon Diorama getting some TLC? (merged threads)
    By Grandicorney in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 06-26-2008, 01:23 PM
  3. Back From The Grand Canyon!
    By Tom Chaney in forum MiceChat Main Lounge
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 06-25-2005, 10:49 PM
  4. I hope they never take out the Grand Canyon part of the train ride...
    By viewaskewniverse in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 05-03-2005, 03:34 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •