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  1. #361

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by gatheringrosebuds View Post
    Totally agree with this. Great post!
    I think this issue just boils down to a personal preference. I personally wouldn't like dialogue explaining the diorama added to the train, for the reasons that frollofan pointed out. However, it would be something that I could easily ignore, and nothing in comparison to losing the diorama.
    Well said, because this thread basically covered 24 pages with 360 posts of personal preferences being shot back and forth.

    It was quite the fun journey to read.



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  2. #362

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Thanks to you, Bongo -- it is now 25 pages!

  3. #363

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Bongo View Post
    Well said, because this thread basically covered 24 pages with 360 posts of personal preferences being shot back and forth.

    It was quite the fun journey to read.
    The different opinions on here have led to suggestions as diverse as don't touch a thing and replace the thing with 3D dinosaurs. I think any opinion is worth discussing as long as we stick to the merits and do not talk down to or dismiss people just because we disagree. Walt Disney himself said he was always looking for ways to improve his attractions. The very diorama we have been discussing was Walt Disney's way of improving his beloved railroad attraction by giving guests a grand finale before returning to Main Street. And yes, some of his imagineers disagreed with him.

  4. #364

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Bongo View Post
    Well said, because this thread basically covered 24 pages with 360 posts of personal preferences being shot back and forth.

    It was quite the fun journey to read.
    Well that's actually what discussion boards are for--discussing

  5. #365

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by gatheringrosebuds
    Totally agree with this. Great post!
    I think this issue just boils down to a personal preference.
    I agree!

  6. #366

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    It looks like this thread has gone the distance. To all of you, thanks for your great discussions and contributions! Q

  7. #367

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    you're welcome.

  8. #368

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    And a big thanks to those from both sides who tried to keep the conversation respectful and civil.

  9. #369

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Holy Moses this thread has struck a nerve!!!!! My goodness.
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  10. #370

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    I found these two Wikipedia articles very useful -

    Diorama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Disneyland Railroad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    According to the first article, a diorama is a partially three-dimensional, full-size replica or scale model of a landscape typically showing historical events, nature scenes or cityscapes, for purposes of education or entertainment.

    So the idea of a diorama is that it represents an actual place. As to whether that means it's designed to "transport" you to that place upon viewing it, or simply give one a general idea of what that place really looks like when there, isn't entirely clear, but I would think it could be interpreted either way.

    The second article holds some very interesting info -

    The 1958 addition of the Grand Canyon diorama painted by artist Delmer J. Yoakum necessitated a change in the rolling stock as well; instead of facing forward, the new flatcars' benches now faced right so that the passengers could better enjoy the scenes. The diorama, which includes taxidermic animals (the only ones in the park) in lifelike poses, is the longest in the world. Painted on a single piece of seamless canvas and representing the view from the canyon's south rim, the rear of the diorama measures 306 feet (93 m) long, 34 feet (10 m) high and is covered with 300 gallons (1,100 L) of paint in 14 colors.[4] Animals that are included in the diorama include mule deer, mountain lion, desert bighorn sheep, golden eagle, wild turkeys, striped skunk and porcupine. A 96-year-old Hopi chief, Chief Nevangnewa, blessed the trains on the diorama's opening day. The cost was US$367,000, and it took 80,000 labor hours to construct. The main theme of Ferde Grofé's "On The Trail," the third movement from his Grand Canyon Suite, is piped in through the train's sound system as it enters the diorama.

    In 1966, the diorama was expanded with a prehistoric theme to become the "Grand Canyon/Primeval World" diorama, with Audio-Animatronic dinosaurs from Walt Disney's 1964 New York World's Fair attraction Ford Magic Skyway.

    So, within the context of Disneyland, is the GC/PW diorama designed to transport us, however briefly, to the Grand Canyon (in an unstated time period, but presumably within the last 500 years) and then millions of years back in time to the Primeval World, or is it designed for us to sit back and admire the handiwork of the diorama makers?

    IMHO, while the historical uniqueness of the Grand Canyon Diorama is certainly worthy of respect and the Diorama deserves to be kept intact for public viewing (perhaps donated to the Walt Disney Family Museum?), Disney could, very validly, make the decision to either revamp that portion of the DLRR so that it shows a more immersive 3D (without glasses) Grand Canyon & Primeval World landscape, perhaps using some sort of blend of Audio Animatronics, diorama set design, and large screen video technology (surrounding the entire train, not just one side of it), or perhaps present entirely new imagery altogether. They could even, theoretically, do this in other parts of the DLRR, to indicate the "traveling through time and space" aspect the DLRR has always subtly implied in its path around the berm. This way, transitioning from Main Street to Adventureland, and so on around the Park, could be presented visually, with the current GC/PW location being the final transition, from Tomorrowland back to Main Street. How that would be presented could always be changing, giving Imagineers an ongoing project to work on, and giving Park Guests plenty of reason to hop on the DLRR every time they visit.

    Just some food for thought. Not meaning to alarm or infuriate anyone. But in this case, I have to honestly ask - what would Walt do? Knowing what I know of the man, I'd like to think that, given that the DLRR was his baby, he'd want to make the DLRR experience even better than it is now, if that was possible.

  11. #371

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Unfortunately, donating it to the Walt Disney Family Museum isn't an option. The canvas itself occupies 10,000 square feet! Nor does the museum have 34-foot high walls. It would have to go into a specially-constructed building. And since the museum is in the historical preservation district of San Francisco's Presidio, it's only allowed to occupy currently-existing buildings. Really, the founder of the Gap wanted to build an art museum down the way, and he got turned down. They're sticklers for these things.

    Besides, the diorama as a walk-through? Even I might find that a tad boring.

  12. #372

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by von Drake View Post
    Besides, the diorama as a walk-through? Even I might find that a tad boring.
    That is how most dioramas are viewed (you prob already know this).

    So anyway, that kind of adds to the OP's post/idea. If one would find it boring as a walk thru, whats to say a slow train ride isn't boring too to some ppl? I think this thread went full circle just now w/ post #371.

    I would love to see it as a walk-thru. To be able to stare at it for as long as I wanted would work, just like staring at a piece of art at the D'Orsay in Paris or MOMA in San Fran (my two fave art museums).
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  13. #373

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    This thread is...

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  14. #374

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by explodingboy View Post
    This thread is...

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  15. #375

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    According to another thread from seven years ago, there is almost no maintenance and operation cost for the attraction. I'm guessing that all it costs them is the electric bill for the lights and the ventilation that takes care of the locomotive exhaust. If that's true, I think it's going to be around for a long time. Oh, and they do do some maintenance on the PW. Don't y'all remember that earlier this year, the Allosaurus and the Stegosaurus next to the volcano were concealed by a black tarp. When uncovered, the dinosaurs looked fresh and more lively.

    Trivia: The music heard in the PW is from the 1962 classic film "Mysterious Island," written and conducted by Bernard Herrmann, which featured special effects by the master of stop-motion, Ray Harryhausen. Sometimes, I get on the train just to hear that wonderful, dramatic score again.
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    There should be a sticky thread called "This Day in Disney History." The company has a long history and this would be a good way to acknowledge it. Walt was born 112 years ago; that's quite a chunk of American history and culture.

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