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  1. #121

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by clippers6 View Post
    Yes, that's exactly what I meant

    I think a stereophonic recording using modern recording equipment would be a nice addition. I'm not a sound engineer, but maybe they could even remaster the original recording like they do with old films.
    Now that I could get into. Remaster the original recording so that it sounds pristine and add some speakers on the other side of the tunnel although I don't know if the sound would reverb through the tunnel.

    ---------- Post added 11-20-2012 at 05:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by explodingboy View Post


    I could take a nap with that song.....
    “No worries, stay calm, one question. 
Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”

  2. #122

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    Now that I could get into. Remaster the original recording so that it sounds pristine and add some speakers on the other side of the tunnel although I don't know if the sound would reverb through the tunnel.
    A few years ago they took some Beatles tracks that had been converted to stereo and changed them back to mono while using some modern techniques to make them sound better than they originally did. The difference in audio quality was amazing. I know with instrumental music stereo is preferred, but like you said there might be some issues with the tunnel plus the sound of the train.

  3. #123

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by clippers6 View Post
    A few years ago they took some Beatles tracks that had been converted to stereo and changed them back to mono while using some modern techniques to make them sound better than they originally did. The difference in audio quality was amazing. I know with instrumental music stereo is preferred, but like you said there might be some issues with the tunnel plus the sound of the train.
    You know what might be neat is if Disney hid some subwoofers where the thunderstorm section of the Grand Canyon diorama is so the storm could be felt in your bones.
    “No worries, stay calm, one question. 
Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”

  4. #124

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by clippers6 View Post
    A few years ago they took some Beatles tracks that had been converted to stereo and changed them back to mono while using some modern techniques to make them sound better than they originally did. The difference in audio quality was amazing. I know with instrumental music stereo is preferred, but like you said there might be some issues with the tunnel plus the sound of the train.
    They could always replace the music with Sgt Pepper.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  5. #125

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Primeval World was and still is my favorite part of riding the DLRR. I liked the Grand Canyon diorama as well and have always wondered how far the drop down was just beyond the last set of rock columns in the back. Can't forget the mentioning of the ever dangerous Tiki Birds either :-)
    Des douze coups de minuit aux matines sonnantes,
    Nous valserons ensemble, macabre débutante.

  6. #126

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    I'm constantly amazed and saddened that some people believe that every square inch of Disneyland needs to feature fireworks, holograms, lasers or some other stimulus du jour. Why can't some parts of the Park retain their quiet intimacy?
    Again, I concur.

    How does the saying go? "Less is more."

    I don't think you have to extravaganza"ize" everything.

    Okay, so I made that word up, but you get the drift.

    Simplicity can have an amazing impact on the senses.

  7. #127

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by clippers6 View Post
    You guys truly are in denial if you think it doesn't happen. What portion of the general public do you think could actually identify the music being used? I hear "this is so corny" all the time; I've yet to hear "this is genius". Don't get me wrong, I love the dioramas, but I'm not going to pretend that everyone else on the train has the same appreciation as I or as you guys do (especially you Steve, someone that has written a book about the railroad). Would there be no benefit to the experience to update the music? I would suggest a more modern recording, starting with the first movement for the dramatic transition from the dark tunnel to the Grand Canyon, and a smoother transition from the 3rd movement to the 5th during the storm scene.

    ---------- Post added 11-20-2012 at 02:58 PM ----------


    I think the only thing that has kept them from turning the Grand Canyon part into the train scene from Toy Story 3 is not that many in TDA realize the dioramas are there

    The only people who think the music and diorama are corny simply can't appreciate the finer things in life, usually teenagers who need the latest thrill to satisfy their short attention spans. I'm 26 years old and even I love this portion of the attraction, I love art and can recognize something that was made with care and love. It's the same with Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln or Sleeping Beauty Castle walk-through, a masterpiece that not many take the time to appreciate or absorb appropriately. To those who do understand (the majority of guests), it's a treat and privilege to see in action. To think that someone would believe an ancient world filled with dinosaurs isn't interesting just boggles my mind. There's a reason it has been there so long, and it sure isn't because it's corny.
    Last edited by Seawolf; 11-21-2012 at 02:32 AM.

  8. #128

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Seawolf View Post
    The only people who think the music and diorama are corny simply can't appreciate the finer things in life, usually teenagers who need the latest thrill to satisfy their short attention spans. I'm 26 years old and even I love this portion of the attraction, I love art and can recognize something that was made with care and love. It's the same with Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln or Sleeping Beauty Castle walk-through, a masterpiece that not many take the time to appreciate or absorb appropriately. To those who do understand (the majority of guests), it's a treat and privilege to see in action. To think that someone would believe an ancient world filled with dinosaurs isn't interesting just boggles my mind. There's a reason it has been there so long, and it sure isn't because it's corny.
    I don't appreciate the personal attack from someone that apparently doesn't understand sarcasm. I've never said anything about the Primeval World not being interesting. It's my opinion that the Grand Canyon part could use a tweak to the music. You can disagree with me, but don't assume that just because you do somehow that makes you more cultured than me. I love classic attractions and I'm the guy that's usually dragging his friends to see Mr. Lincoln and the castle walkthrough. I find it interesting that you would cite Lincoln and the walkthrough when those are two attractions that have undergone fairly significant changes over the years (good and bad) and are both arguably better experiences now thanks to upgrades in technology and small tweaks. Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln uses a new recording of the original speech that sounds cleaner than the former recording and the Sleeping Beauty Castle walkthrough uses new technology to animate its scenes.

  9. #129

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    If it's not broke, why fix it? Kind of my point of view on it. Believe it or not, The diorama has the world record of being the worlds second largest single sheet of painted canvas. (the biggest piece being inside the Dinosaur portion) .. I mean, I'll admit that its kind of thrown in there, but I don't really see them doing anything else with that part of the train. It's neck deep in backstage country. If anything gets done at all, probably would make all the animals animatronic.. but, eh.. I don't think the train is supposed to be a show stopping experience so much. It's designed to just cart people around. Can you imagine the wait time at Tomorrowland Station if they put something truely amazing in that tunnel? It would actually negate it's purpose as a transportation method.

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by clippers6 View Post
    I don't appreciate the personal attack from someone that apparently doesn't understand sarcasm. I've never said anything about the Primeval World not being interesting. It's my opinion that the Grand Canyon part could use a tweak to the music. You can disagree with me, but don't assume that just because you do somehow that makes you more cultured than me. I love classic attractions and I'm the guy that's usually dragging his friends to see Mr. Lincoln and the castle walkthrough. I find it interesting that you would cite Lincoln and the walkthrough when those are two attractions that have undergone fairly significant changes over the years (good and bad) and are both arguably better experiences now thanks to upgrades in technology and small tweaks. Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln uses a new recording of the original speech that sounds cleaner than the former recording and the Sleeping Beauty Castle walkthrough uses new technology to animate its scenes.
    Calm down, I was referring to the individuals you mentioned about on the train who said it was boring, not yourself. I do however believe that Disney shouldn't have to change something that is perfectly fine based off a few misguided and premature reactions.

    No one is arguing against upgrading animatronics or digitally restoring the audio track, but this idea that the substance being presented is somehow corny and forgotten by suits at TDA doesn't hold water in my opinion. The taxidermy is a perfect introduction to the Primeval World because of its lack of motion, a polar opposite. The music is designed to encourage people to envision the animals moving and keep your expectations simple at the beginning.

    Please elaborate how Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln in its current state is much different from its original incantation besides the upgrade in animatronics? The whole point of the current version is to replicate the original show. They are using the first audio tracks with Paul Frees and Royal Dano. If it were so boring and corny Disney wouldn't have done that. All I hear is an applause after the show is completed.

    The walk-through is using the original Sleeping Beauty sound track even though it's very old so I don't see why they would need to change it, the same goes for Disneyland's dioramas.
    Last edited by Seawolf; 11-21-2012 at 05:49 AM.

  11. #131

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Seawolf View Post
    No one is arguing against upgrading animatronics or digitally restoring the audio track, but this idea that the substance being presented is somehow corny and forgotten by suits at TDA doesn't hold water in my opinion. The taxidermy is a perfect introduction to the Primeval World because of its lack of motion, a polar opposite. The music is designed to encourage people to envision the animals moving and keep your expectations simple at the beginning.

    Please elaborate how Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln in its current state is much different from its original incantation besides the upgrade in animatronics? The whole point of the current version is to replicate the original show. They are using the first audio tracks with Paul Frees and Royal Dano. If it were so boring and corny Disney wouldn't have done that. All I hear is an applause after the show is completed.

    The walk-through is using the original Sleeping Beauty sound track even though it's very old so I don't see why they would need to change it, the same goes for Disneyland's dioramas.
    When did I say anything about Mr. Lincoln or Sleeping Beauty being boring or corny? I think they're perfect examples of attractions that have benefitted from smart upgrades in technology (ignoring the haircut version of Mr. Lincoln and the dolls version of Sleeping Beauty as those varied so much from the original I consider them different attractions). Mr. Lincoln benefitted from an upgrade to the audio and a new animatronic. It also brings back music from Epcot that was added in the 80s version, although one of the songs is now used as exit music. Likewise, Sleeping Beauty is mostly faithful to the original with the addition of some new effects that weren't possible before.

    Personally I don't mind the taxidermy animals although some have mentioned they wouldn't mind adding or replacing a few with animatronics. My personal opinion is that I don't think the music fits the attraction. Like you said, the music encourages the idea of movement, but the disconnect for people is when you hear music that suggests movement and then see images perfectly still animals. It doesnt help that Disney is a company known for animatronics. That isn't to suggest that it is a bad piece of music, but this is a multimedia experience where the sounds and sights should complement each other. I'd prefer they used a more dramatic section of Grand Canyon Suite for the big dramatic and magical transition from dark tunnel to the Grand Canyon. Personally I don't like the energetic choice of music for the diorama, but that's personal opinion. If they wanted to keep using On the Trail, I'd like for them to either find a way to remaster the version they have or find a different version. They're using an older recording made before modern recording devices. The melody drowns out much of the accomplement which I feel takes away some of the complexity of the piece.

  12. #132

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by clippers6 View Post
    You guys truly are in denial if you think it doesn't happen. What portion of the general public do you think could actually identify the music being used? I hear "this is so corny" all the time...
    As noted, you are likely the only one to hear such comments. It's not denial, it's simply a fact. In fact, having ridden through the diorama literally hundreds of times, I don't recall any guests talking at all, let alone loud enough for me to hear the conversations of amateur music critics.
    All right. I'm corny. But I think there's just about a-hundred-and-forty-million people in this country that are just as corny as I am.
    --Walt Disney

  13. #133

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Having seen the digital 3D replacement for King Kong at Universal Hollywood, I preferred the original Bob Gurr monster that didn't call attention to it's complete falsity.

    I would prefer we keep the original dioramas at Disneyland.

  14. #134

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by AnimationGuy View Post
    Can you imagine the wait time at Tomorrowland Station if they put something truely amazing in that tunnel?
    They already have something "truly amazing" in that tunnel.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

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    Re: Time to Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland

    Quote Originally Posted by Seawolf View Post
    The only people who think the music and diorama are corny simply can't appreciate the finer things in life, usually teenagers who need the latest thrill to satisfy their short attention spans. I'm 26 years old and even I love this portion of the attraction, I love art and can recognize something that was made with care and love. It's the same with Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln or Sleeping Beauty Castle walk-through, a masterpiece that not many take the time to appreciate or absorb appropriately.
    Wow, you are far off. I'm about 10 years older than you are, and while I love Mr. Lincoln (and now the Voices of Liberty) and the Sleeping Beauty Castle walk-through, the Grand Canyon/Primeval section of the train ride holds no interest for me at all.

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