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  1. #151

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by JMazz View Post
    Dynamic & Reserved Pricing on the busy days would help with this. It would not surprize me in the least if DLR became the first themepark to use D&RP 365 days per year. With the numbers and popularity I could see it happen in the next 5 yrs or less as others have said in a round-a-bout way. The AP program would have to change dramtically.











    LMBO!!! Typos can be so funny at times.
    I dont think the human brain can handle dynamic pricing well. If they did do it, it would have to be list price discounts on various days so the price ceiling is known.

  2. #152

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    I know the AP "population" dramatically increased with the introduction of the payment plan. Disney was counting on that. The intent was to buffer the park against a down economy. Technically the AP program in and of itself is a buffer. The intent was to offset the lack of tourist income with an increase in local income. To ensure there was always enough room for tourists, the blackout calendar was put into place. AP's became a sliding scale, paying more for more access, eventually reaching a level where access was unlimited. The easiest way to manage the AP's was sticker shock... and that evaporated with the introduction of the monthly payment option. Now if you don't like the blackouts you simply upgrade... and pay slightly more each month... The result has left Disney scrambling. They've raised prices, paved new lots, and tried desperately to keep the waning tourist population while still encouraging AP's to renew. Bottom line, it stopped being "worth it" a few years ago for us. Our money does more and "goes farther" when diverted elsewhere.
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  3. #153

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Seems like that drop in attendance that they anticipated with the weak economy didn't happen either.

    More people are going than ever, perhaps in spite of or due the economy. If its got you down, go to the Happiest Place on Earth!

    Not sure how to maintain balance anymore, not sure if scrapping the AP program all together would even reduce crowding at this point. Its beyond that it seems.
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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  4. #154

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    The AP program is a cherished and nourished Disney Baby.

    Thank you Disney.

  5. #155

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    despite the economy, going to DL is lifting people spirits!

  6. #156

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    Not sure how to maintain balance anymore, not sure if scrapping the AP program all together would even reduce crowding at this point. Its beyond that it seems.
    Scrap the payment plan, probably cut the numbers in half (or more), people do not know how to save.

  7. #157

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Why would there need to be such discrimination? The payment plan has made it affordable for large families and budget minded people. There is ZERO % interest. So the Disney Corp. has solid interest in keeping it.

    I applaude them for making this program available to as many people they can.

    Also, saying a people do not know how to save is a lazy reason to side against it. Absurd.

  8. #158

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    People don't know how to save...and if it's that much of a hardship to make a trip to Disneyland, maybe think twice about going in the first place?


  9. #159

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by doppio View Post
    People don't know how to save...and if it's that much of a hardship to make a trip to Disneyland, maybe think twice about going in the first place?
    while I'm not a fan of the monthly... I feel compelled to point out they also accept all major credit cards as payment for ticket admission. So... what's the difference between paying monthly to Disney or paying monthly to a credit card company?

    It also brings about the question "how special is Disneyland?" Should the price to get in reflect a "once in a lifetime trip" similar to prices to see the Great Wall of China or Antarctica? Or should the price be in line with other major amusement parks and similar venues? The price will continue to rise as long as customers continue to open their wallets... but at what point is this relationship tipped?
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  10. #160

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Techskip, have you and your family not been to DL since your passes expired three years ago? If so, don't you miss it a ton? Just curious... I always look forward to reading your insights on the parks.

  11. #161

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by indianajack View Post
    Techskip, have you and your family not been to DL since your passes expired three years ago? If so, don't you miss it a ton? Just curious... I always look forward to reading your insights on the parks.
    We've been 3 times, and always due to the kindness of friends who still work there. Without their help it wouldn't have been possible and we were very grateful for it. I have been very lucky. I left because I couldn't afford to support my family and continue to work for Disney. While I don't miss everything, I miss the friends I worked with and we continue to stay in touch.

    When we went we packed lunches and bought souvenirs at the outlet ahead of time. We minimized what we spent simply to make that special trip last just a little bit longer. I feel for out of state families who save for a year or more, simply to spend a few days at Disneyland on vacation. The prices reflect a product that to me simply doesn't meet that standard.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  12. #162

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by doppio View Post
    People don't know how to save...and if it's that much of a hardship to make a trip to Disneyland, maybe think twice about going in the first place?
    Oh that's just brilliant. "If it's too expensive, don't go." Seriously? That's an argument? I'm sure that's exactly what Disney wants - for people to NOT go to Disneyland. Yeah, they'll make a ton of money when people spend their money ELSEWHERE.

    I think you're missing the point here.

    A trip to Disneyland used to be affordable for pretty much every working family, including single-income families. Nobody's against saving up for a trip - people even saved up back in the day. Depending on a family's given financial situation at a given time, saving up may be necessary.

    How long should someone save up for a trip, though? 2 months? 6 months? A year? Two years? Three years?

    Disneyland has gone from being a place where ALL families, regardless of income, can affordably enjoy themselves, to a place where only those at a certain income level or above can affordably go.

    That's not right.

    Knott's Berry Farm offers much more reasonable and affordable pricing options, as do plenty of other entertainment pursuits. Those other pursuits might require some saving up, too, but not for that long a time. Why should Disneyland be so insanely expensive, year after year, ever increasing? It's one thing to pay a bit of a premium for it, but at some point, the price increases to a level that you're not willing to pay.

    Pricing issues at Disneyland did NOT exist before Eisner & Co. People simply did not have problems with the price of admission, tickets, food, or souvenirs in the Park before then. Back then, all pricing was reasonable, and affordable for pretty much everybody. Sure, some were able to afford more than others, but the basic Disneyland experience was accessible to all.

    For the past several years, that's been changing, drastically. The tremendous problems the economy's been experiencing in the last few years haven't made that any better, either. For many people, Disneyland has become, and for others it is increasingly becoming, unaffordable.

    Of course the suits don't care. They're making money hand over fist, year after year, and they all have their golden parachutes on top of it.

    The whole fact that Disneyland has gone from being simply "Disneyland" to "the Disneyland Resort" speaks volumes as to how the suits view the Anaheim park. It used to be that Disneyland was affordable for all, and Walt Disney World was the more expensive resort. You expected to spend more at WDW, because it offered more, a lot more, and was much bigger. Somewhere along the line, the suits thought it was a good idea to try to put that "resort" sensibility that always existed in Florida onto the Anaheim park, and it has proven a laughable mess of an idea.

    The simple fact of the matter is that, no matter what they want to call it, Disneyland never has been (and unless Disney buys half of Anaheim, never will be) a RESORT.

    So they need to get off their high horses and just bring the prices back down to a more affordable level. Keeping AP prices high is fine with me (I've never owned one; never wanted to); in fact, they could double them and it wouldn't faze me any. But make it more affordable for people to visit the Park for one, two, or three days. That way, even if you have to save up for a trip, you can do so in a reasonable amount of time.

    Just to point out, again (because it can never be mentioned enough) - in 1985, a Disneyland Passport was $16.50. That included Park admission and unlimited attractions. $16.50, translated into 2012 dollars, is $35.30. In 1995, it was $33.00, which translates to $49.85 in 2012 dollars. In 2005, it was $56.00, which translates to $66.01 in 2012 dollars. So why does a one-day, one-park ticket in 2012 cost $87.00? It's ridiculous. If they reduced the price of a one-day, one-park ticket to $36.00 (roughly equivalent to the 1985 price), not only would Disneyland be much more affordable for everyone, but Disney would continue to make plenty of money at the Parks, not just from admissions but also from souvenirs and food, since guests who might otherwise be forced to avoid souvenirs (or limit them) and eat outside the Park (or brown-bag it, as techskip and his family did, and which families have done since 1955) would likely have extra funds available. And, more importantly, they'd garner more positive word of mouth, and families who can go more frequently than others could do so without a lot of financial strain.

    Most likely, multi-day, multi-park tickets would also see price reductions as well (1-day Park Hoppers would be $72.00, twice the price of the single park ticket). 2-day Park Hoppers would be $125.00. 3-day Park Hoppers would be $175.00 (that's just under $30 per park, per day). Reasonable. Affordable. Save-up-able.

    And honestly, I'd increase the price of Annual Passes to $1500, which is just over $4.10 a day for 365 days. That way, the folks who just gotta have an AP and are able to spend for it can do so, and the rest of us can more affordably go when we can. More once- and twice-a-year trips. More valued memories. More magic. Less treating Disneyland like it's a mall.

    More importantly, you wouldn't have this argument about Disneyland prices being too expensive anymore. Everyone would be able to afford a trip more easily.
    Last edited by Retrocool; 12-22-2012 at 01:13 PM.

  13. #163

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyBono24 View Post
    After 11 (or could be 12?) years as an AP... I'm finally NOT renewing my pass this time. They've jacked up the price numerous times, and we've paid without complaint.

    This last price hike is just RIDICULOUS though... and NO discounts for long-time passholders either. They just think they can take your money every year without ANY incentive for being a passholder for more than a decade.

    Well that's it, I'm DONE. They aren't getting any more of my money.

    Can't even get on the damn rides anyway... every time we go (even on weekdays) the Cars Land rides are 1-hour waits.
    Use the payment plan. The Premium AP is only $10.81 per week. What else can you do for $10.81 per week? If you average two visits a week, that's only $5.41 per visit - parking included.

    I think it's an incredible deal.

  14. #164

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by Retrocool View Post
    Oh that's just brilliant. "If it's too expensive, don't go." Seriously? That's an argument? I'm sure that's exactly what Disney wants - for people to NOT go to Disneyland. Yeah, they'll make a ton of money when people spend their money ELSEWHERE.

    I think you're missing the point here.

    A trip to Disneyland used to be affordable for pretty much every working family, including single-income families. Nobody's against saving up for a trip - people even saved up back in the day. Depending on a family's given financial situation at a given time, saving up may be necessary.

    How long should someone save up for a trip, though? 2 months? 6 months? A year? Two years? Three years?

    Disneyland has gone from being a place where ALL families, regardless of income, can affordably enjoy themselves, to a place where only those at a certain income level or above can affordably go.

    That's not right.

    Knott's Berry Farm offers much more reasonable and affordable pricing options, as do plenty of other entertainment pursuits. Those other pursuits might require some saving up, too, but not for that long a time. Why should Disneyland be so insanely expensive, year after year, ever increasing? It's one thing to pay a bit of a premium for it, but at some point, the price increases to a level that you're not willing to pay.

    Pricing issues at Disneyland did NOT exist before Eisner & Co. People simply did not have problems with the price of admission, tickets, food, or souvenirs in the Park before then. Back then, all pricing was reasonable, and affordable for pretty much everybody. Sure, some were able to afford more than others, but the basic Disneyland experience was accessible to all.

    For the past several years, that's been changing, drastically. The tremendous problems the economy's been experiencing in the last few years haven't made that any better, either. For many people, Disneyland has become, and for others it is increasingly becoming, unaffordable.

    Of course the suits don't care. They're making money hand over fist, year after year, and they all have their golden parachutes on top of it.

    The whole fact that Disneyland has gone from being simply "Disneyland" to "the Disneyland Resort" speaks volumes as to how the suits view the Anaheim park. It used to be that Disneyland was affordable for all, and Walt Disney World was the more expensive resort. You expected to spend more at WDW, because it offered more, a lot more, and was much bigger. Somewhere along the line, the suits thought it was a good idea to try to put that "resort" sensibility that always existed in Florida onto the Anaheim park, and it has proven a laughable mess of an idea.

    The simple fact of the matter is that, no matter what they want to call it, Disneyland never has been (and unless Disney buys half of Anaheim, never will be) a RESORT.

    So they need to get off their high horses and just bring the prices back down to a more affordable level. Keeping AP prices high is fine with me (I've never owned one; never wanted to); in fact, they could double them and it wouldn't faze me any. But make it more affordable for people to visit the Park for one, two, or three days. That way, even if you have to save up for a trip, you can do so in a reasonable amount of time.

    Just to point out, again (because it can never be mentioned enough) - in 1985, a Disneyland Passport was $16.50. That included Park admission and unlimited attractions. $16.50, translated into 2012 dollars, is $35.30. In 1995, it was $33.00, which translates to $49.85 in 2012 dollars. In 2005, it was $56.00, which translates to $66.01 in 2012 dollars. So why does a one-day, one-park ticket in 2012 cost $87.00? It's ridiculous. If they reduced the price of a one-day, one-park ticket to $36.00 (roughly equivalent to the 1985 price), not only would Disneyland be much more affordable for everyone, but Disney would continue to make plenty of money at the Parks, not just from admissions but also from souvenirs and food, since guests who might otherwise be forced to avoid souvenirs (or limit them) and eat outside the Park (or brown-bag it, as techskip and his family did, and which families have done since 1955) would likely have extra funds available. And, more importantly, they'd garner more positive word of mouth, and families who can go more frequently than others could do so without a lot of financial strain.

    Most likely, multi-day, multi-park tickets would also see price reductions as well (1-day Park Hoppers would be $72.00, twice the price of the single park ticket). 2-day Park Hoppers would be $125.00. 3-day Park Hoppers would be $175.00 (that's just under $30 per park, per day). Reasonable. Affordable. Save-up-able.

    And honestly, I'd increase the price of Annual Passes to $1500, which is just over $4.10 a day for 365 days. That way, the folks who just gotta have an AP and are able to spend for it can do so, and the rest of us can more affordably go when we can. More once- and twice-a-year trips. More valued memories. More magic. Less treating Disneyland like it's a mall.

    More importantly, you wouldn't have this argument about Disneyland prices being too expensive anymore. Everyone would be able to afford a trip more easily.
    Fantastic post, Retro! My only question regarding Disneyland ticket price reductions is how would that drop in price would affect attendance. Would there be a dramatic spike in numbers? Would this lead to massive over-crowding in the park? Increasing AP prices while lowering ticket costs would help as more AP holders would drop their passes in favor of several trips with one-day tickets, but to what extent would that be affective?

  15. #165

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by gatheringrosebuds View Post
    Fantastic post, Retro! My only question regarding Disneyland ticket price reductions is how would that drop in price would affect attendance. Would there be a dramatic spike in numbers? Would this lead to massive over-crowding in the park? Increasing AP prices while lowering ticket costs would help as more AP holders would drop their passes in favor of several trips with one-day tickets, but to what extent would that be affective?
    Very good question. I don't think it would cause overcrowding, although it might at first (since it's been a long, long time since Disneyland prices were that low, and you'd likely see a flood of people who haven't been to the park in many years). Once the prices stabilized, though, given that AP price increases would cause a decrease in AP purchases, I think you'd see less overcrowding, especially given the fact that you have an entire second park available.

    The primary reason the park is crowded so often, honestly, is because AP prices have been kept so low for so long. As I was growing up, an AP wasn't even offered. You paid daily to get in, no matter whether you were a SoCal local or a tourist from the other side of the planet. And you know what? Crowding, and certainly overcrowding, was never really an issue, except during certain major holidays like Memorial Day, the 4th of July, Labor Day, and Christmas.

    This article supports my argument that it's the AP prices that cause locals to visit the park so frequently (and thus cause overcrowding).

    Disney Raises SoCal Annual Pass Prices 30% - to Keep Locals 'Out' - Technorati Business

    Annual pass holders tend to be local residents of southern California who love the parks. But local residents don’t use the hotels, buy the merchandise, pay for expensive dinners, or fund any of the other merchandising or services that tourists do. Quite simply: Disney makes a lot more money on tourists than “locals,” so they’re pricing the park passes to keep locals away.

    Not only do locals not buy nearly as much additional merchandise and services as tourists; but lots of locals in the parks make them more crowded, and actually discourage more tourists from visiting. So, Disney is using the classic laws of “supply and demand” to discourage people from buying the annual passes; thus making the parks better “tourist” destinations.

    While I agree that AP prices should increase, I don't think that locals should be "kept away." Locals should be able to visit the parks, affordably, whenever they can, even if it's not QUITE as often as they would with an AP. I think if AP prices are to increase, then single and multi-day ticket prices should decrease as a result. That's only fair.

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