Page 13 of 16 FirstFirst ... 310111213141516 LastLast
Results 181 to 195 of 238
  1. #181

    • some assembly required
    • Offline

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    nowhere in particular...
    Posts
    687

    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    I know the AP "population" dramatically increased with the introduction of the payment plan. Disney was counting on that. The intent was to buffer the park against a down economy. Technically the AP program in and of itself is a buffer. The intent was to offset the lack of tourist income with an increase in local income. To ensure there was always enough room for tourists, the blackout calendar was put into place. AP's became a sliding scale, paying more for more access, eventually reaching a level where access was unlimited. The easiest way to manage the AP's was sticker shock... and that evaporated with the introduction of the monthly payment option. Now if you don't like the blackouts you simply upgrade... and pay slightly more each month... The result has left Disney scrambling. They've raised prices, paved new lots, and tried desperately to keep the waning tourist population while still encouraging AP's to renew. Bottom line, it stopped being "worth it" a few years ago for us. Our money does more and "goes farther" when diverted elsewhere.

    Waning?
    In this down economy, all types of tourists are rising (local tourists, tourists from across the country and tourists from the international groups). The type of tourist group that is growing faster than the others is probably the local group, but this is lumped together with ppl coming from 2.5 hr plane rides (the data I am looking at supplied by Hilton Hotels).

    Disneyland is catching many tourists who have scrapped more expensive vacations. All tourist numbers are up for Anaheim.
    ~Jay

    "Ahh-chooo!" ~ Walt Disney
    "Bless you." ~ My Grandfather
    (Disneyland, circa 1957)


  2. #182

    • "I Break Things"
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    12,370

    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by JMazz View Post
    Waning?
    In this down economy, all types of tourists are rising (local tourists, tourists from across the country and tourists from the international groups). The type of tourist group that is growing faster than the others is probably the local group, but this is lumped together with ppl coming from 2.5 hr plane rides (the data I am looking at supplied by Hilton Hotels).

    Disneyland is catching many tourists who have scrapped more expensive vacations. All tourist numbers are up for Anaheim.
    The monthly program was implemented right when the economy tanked. It was done alongside the promotion for "get in free on your birthday". The end result was a huge spike in AP's, and a buffer against a perceived drop in national and international tourism. That drop never materialized but the AP population held, thereby causing a lot of the overcrowding issues we see now. In it's haste to buffer itself, Disney circumvented the sticker shock aspect of the pricing thereby negating the only tool they had to manage AP's... blackout dates. They are now dramatically raising prices in hopes of converting people to monthly, and in some cases curbing the respective populations.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  3. #183

    • "I Break Things"
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    12,370

    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by Retrocool View Post
    Whew. I gotta admit, that sort of frequency has been pretty alien to me for most of my life, with the exception of the summer of 1990, when I worked on Main Street, and I was able to get into the Park free before or after my shift, and, if I recall correctly, on my days off (hey, if you can get in for free, why not, right?). But as a paying guest, Disneyland was always very different for me, and I treated each visit as if it was special, because most of the time it was - it was a very special event, a real treat. While it was fun to get in often during the summer I worked there, if I was able to get in all the time over the course of a year, or even year after year, I think eventually I'd start to get bored and begin wondering why I was going there so often, and I shudder to think that I'd ever have that attitude toward Disneyland.

    To me, Disneyland is like a rich dessert. If you eat it once in a blue moon, it retains its special appeal for you, its magic, so to speak. If you eat it with every meal, sure, it's fun at first, but eventually, you get jaded, and its specialness wears off.

    It's like hearing a really cool song on the radio that very first time, or the first few times. You enjoy it, but if you start hearing it every hour, you begin to get sick of it.

    I don't ever want that to happen with Disneyland.

    I hope that for those folks who aren't renewing their APs, that this helps to make Disneyland really extra special for you again, so that when you visit the Park again, you can really savor it.
    When we had AP's we had 4 little kids, the youngest of which tired out easily. We would usually go for a half day on a weekend. We never got there at opening and rarely stayed late. Some days we spent in a specific land, or did something specific. One day in particular I remember because we saw every character we could in the park. The "frequency" worked because it wasn't 8am to Midnight every weekend. It wasn't every ride every weekend or every show every weekend. We did other things as well, but the kids had a lot of fun at the park. This was also when the parks were less crowded. I remember taking them after work on a Wednesday, and doing every ride in Fantasyland between 7pm, and 8pm when it closed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Using an AP to its max, a day at Disneyland can be cheaper than going to the movies. The only thing cheaper is going to a city park, local beach or mall. Which, of course, is what many people treat Disneyland like.
    That number skews substantially when you purchase multiple AP's. And if you take the same check you would send to Disney and instead re-purpose it you could take a decent trip anywhere within California, Nevada, and Arizona! That's how we did Sequoia, Sacramento, Joshua Tree, Hoover Dam, Vegas, Grand Canyon, Monument Valley... I can keep going if you'd like...
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  4. #184

    • some assembly required
    • Offline

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    nowhere in particular...
    Posts
    687

    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    ??

    I don't agree with this as it presumes that TDA is worried about the physical look of the property over making $$$. Iger and tons of executives on down are happy that DLR is seeing bigger numbers. Disneyland has a steady stream of refurbishments and renovations, always has and always will, and Carsland is brand spanking new so is a long way from a big refurb. DLR can handle the numbers, DL's numbers are similar to past numbers, though it always peaks around Christmas.
    I am not sure where the confusion lies. I made several statements in my post. And I am not sure which one it was. All of them?

    In regards to the infrastructure?
    It isn't the paint jobs I'm talking about. It isn't neccesarily what guests can see. I am speaking of a park (only DL) that is in need of a major over-haul in many areas of the park (physical areas). TDA is hoping to snag higher-spending guests so that they do not have to pack the parks and tread over its' aging "bones". This is a delicate balance while they scramble to figure out how to refurb these areas. Yes, they have refurbs on the horizon, the ones they can actually get away with while the numbers inch higher. There are certain areas of the park that need to be shut down - plain and simple - while they go thru extensive refurbishment. I will not be surprized if ROA, as an entire ride complex, gets shut down a la Space Mt circa 2003.

    I am pointing this one out b/c it is the one that is the biggest problem and has the most attractions (I am still in research mode on this one). It would affect 4 boat rides, TSI, F!, a huge sightline for the park from 4 lands, possibly the DLRR, Hungry Bear, Pooh.

    Truely, this does deserve its' own thread, and I hope to make one soon. But I think the guest #s (all types of guests) are are a balancing act more-so at DL than DCA. The balancing act that I speak of directly affects the AP program. If both parks had a strong infrastructure as DCA does, it would affect the AP program much less. I think we would see slightly lower prices across the board if DL's infrastructure was in better shape. They would be more inclined to pack these parks to the gills w/ promos & lower pricing more often thru the year. But again, they cannot b/c DL cannot handle it. At the same time, there are investors to pay and that is where the balancing act lies.
    ~Jay

    "Ahh-chooo!" ~ Walt Disney
    "Bless you." ~ My Grandfather
    (Disneyland, circa 1957)


  5. #185

    • "I Break Things"
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    12,370

    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by JMazz View Post
    If both parks had a strong infrastructure as DCA does, it would affect the AP program much less. I think we would see slightly lower prices across the board if DL's infrastructure was in better shape. They would be more inclined to pack these parks to the gills w/ promos & lower pricing more often thru the year. But again, they cannot b/c DL cannot handle it. At the same time, there are investors to pay and that is where the balancing act lies.
    I highly doubt the prices would be lower... Disney has continually tested the water with higher and higher price increases. Each time they are greeted with happy tourists holding open wallets. Irrespective of "where" the money eventually goes, I can't see Disney taking a high road and simply asking for less money.

    As to ROA, it gets drained on average once or twice a decade. It's about due for another one. All it really effects are the big boats, canoes, and island. Everything else is sectioned off with green walls and tarps.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  6. #186

    • some assembly required
    • Offline

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    nowhere in particular...
    Posts
    687

    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    The monthly program was implemented right when the economy tanked. It was done alongside the promotion for "get in free on your birthday". The end result was a huge spike in AP's, and a buffer against a perceived drop in national and international tourism. That drop never materialized but the AP population held, thereby causing a lot of the overcrowding issues we see now. In it's haste to buffer itself, Disney circumvented the sticker shock aspect of the pricing thereby negating the only tool they had to manage AP's... blackout dates. They are now dramatically raising prices in hopes of converting people to monthly, and in some cases curbing the respective populations.
    Keyword: perceived

    Anyway, I do agree. Esp with the aspect of curbing. They are hitting a tipping point and this mirrors the average guests' breaking point. I find it riveting! ...this whole drama of how our park operates, the breaking point of each guest, the breaking point of each fan, how hard a pounding the infrastructure can take, and the very unique way Disneyland handles itself - it is so different than all their other parks.
    ~Jay

    "Ahh-chooo!" ~ Walt Disney
    "Bless you." ~ My Grandfather
    (Disneyland, circa 1957)


  7. #187

    • some assembly required
    • Offline

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    nowhere in particular...
    Posts
    687

    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    I highly doubt the prices would be lower... Disney has continually tested the water with higher and higher price increases. Each time they are greeted with happy tourists holding open wallets. Irrespective of "where" the money eventually goes, I can't see Disney taking a high road and simply asking for less money.

    As to ROA, it gets drained on average once or twice a decade. It's about due for another one. All it really effects are the big boats, canoes, and island. Everything else is sectioned off with green walls and tarps.
    It wasn't about the "high road". It is the fact that they would price-to-fill the parks. But, as I said, they cannot.

    As for ROA... the next required refurb will be so much bigger than what has happened in the past. And I will say it again, I am still in research-mode on this one. I'll add your professional input, however. I will assume your connections are much greater than mine.
    ~Jay

    "Ahh-chooo!" ~ Walt Disney
    "Bless you." ~ My Grandfather
    (Disneyland, circa 1957)


  8. #188

    • I'm from Canada eh!
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,091

    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by Retrocool View Post
    Whew. I gotta admit, that sort of frequency has been pretty alien to me for most of my life, with the exception of the summer of 1990, when I worked on Main Street, and I was able to get into the Park free before or after my shift, and, if I recall correctly, on my days off (hey, if you can get in for free, why not, right?). But as a paying guest, Disneyland was always very different for me, and I treated each visit as if it was special, because most of the time it was - it was a very special event, a real treat. While it was fun to get in often during the summer I worked there, if I was able to get in all the time over the course of a year, or even year after year, I think eventually I'd start to get bored and begin wondering why I was going there so often, and I shudder to think that I'd ever have that attitude toward Disneyland.

    To me, Disneyland is like a rich dessert. If you eat it once in a blue moon, it retains its special appeal for you, its magic, so to speak. If you eat it with every meal, sure, it's fun at first, but eventually, you get jaded, and its specialness wears off.

    It's like hearing a really cool song on the radio that very first time, or the first few times. You enjoy it, but if you start hearing it every hour, you begin to get sick of it.

    I don't ever want that to happen with Disneyland.

    I hope that for those folks who aren't renewing their APs, that this helps to make Disneyland really extra special for you again, so that when you visit the Park again, you can really savor it.
    I sincerely agree with this post.

  9. #189

    • "I Break Things"
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    12,370

    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by JMazz View Post
    It wasn't about the "high road". It is the fact that they would price-to-fill the parks. But, as I said, they cannot.
    The problem is at the current prices (increase after increase) they have managed to fill the parks without a noticeable decline. For every tourist or AP who forgos the trip due to sticker shock, plenty more take the place with a happy face and an open wallet. Disney has no incentive to lower or maintain the current price unless they see an attendance drop. That is irrespective of where the money is eventually redirected to. I realize there is a "manage the crowd" aspect currently due to infrastructure... but even with that handicap and a higher price the park is filled...
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  10. #190

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    333

    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    The problem is at the current prices (increase after increase) they have managed to fill the parks without a noticeable decline. For every tourist or AP who forgos the trip due to sticker shock, plenty more take the place with a happy face and an open wallet. Disney has no incentive to lower or maintain the current price unless they see an attendance drop. That is irrespective of where the money is eventually redirected to. I realize there is a "manage the crowd" aspect currently due to infrastructure... but even with that handicap and a higher price the park is filled...

    'Zactly! If they raise rates and attendance doesn't drop... Hmmm

  11. #191

    • Under that tree again!
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7,477

    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    1. Did the AP payment plan start due to the economy slowdown?
    2. Did the AP payment plan spur the growth in APs?

    Answers to both:

    Yes and No for 2, and No to 1. The economy entered a recession at the end of 07. It was a year later that Disney, after the economy had been down for a whole year, started SoCal residents only AP payment plans. Then midway through 2011, in a supposedly recovery(econimic data was inproving but consumer sentiment still negative) from the recession it was opened up to all California residents. Of course in this same period AP prices went up and up which would discourage growth in AP holders, demand is inversely related to price.

    AP volumes did go up in the later part of last decade but have leveled out since, even after the economy saw stabalization and payment plans were expanded.

    Disney is one of the better companies at predicting the future economy. It appears what they did is increase demand with AP payment plans, then decrease the demand with higher prices. It is quite possible TDA aimed for X number of APs at Y dollars each and have acheived it.

  12. #192

    • "I Break Things"
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    12,370

    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by swampymarsh View Post
    1. Did the AP payment plan start due to the economy slowdown?
    2. Did the AP payment plan spur the growth in APs?

    Answers to both:

    Yes and No for 2, and No to 1. The economy entered a recession at the end of 07. It was a year later that Disney, after the economy had been down for a whole year, started SoCal residents only AP payment plans. Then midway through 2011, in a supposedly recovery(econimic data was inproving but consumer sentiment still negative) from the recession it was opened up to all California residents. Of course in this same period AP prices went up and up which would discourage growth in AP holders, demand is inversely related to price.

    AP volumes did go up in the later part of last decade but have leveled out since, even after the economy saw stabalization and payment plans were expanded.

    Disney is one of the better companies at predicting the future economy. It appears what they did is increase demand with AP payment plans, then decrease the demand with higher prices. It is quite possible TDA aimed for X number of APs at Y dollars each and have acheived it.
    Except you're forgetting one factor... the "get in free for your birthday" promotional which many SoCal residents used as a downpayment for an AP! Those with an AP received a gift card for the same value and many of them also elected to use it to renew!
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  13. #193

    • Rock Star Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    13,382

    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Increasing AP Prices will lead to AP'ers coming to the parks even more often, to "get their money's worth." Simple human nature. There might be fewer AP'ers, due to the price increase, but more frequent attenders (attendees?).
    And some of those days' visits will be merely trying to walk down Main Street before giving up and going home, as techskip describes. Those still count as a "turnstile click" but no increased revenue.

    Only one solution. AP Program needs to be dismantled, and average day-trip prices need to drop to match "average daily attendance revenue" (AP revenue plus ticket revenue, divided by attendance). Higher prices in new (retro) vacation seasons, lower prices in off-seasons. I'll let the "experts" figure that all out.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  14. #194

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Horse Town USA
    Posts
    108

    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    In 1983 the first AP's went on sell for $55, the price of a one day ticket was $11, so the break even point was 5 visits. Jump forward nearly 30 years and the Premimum Pass still has a break even point of 5 visits versus the Park Hopper ticket. So today's AP price is in line with the orginal AP's price when compare to the one day ticket price. So any complaints should be towards the cost of a one day ticket not the AP price.
    The payment plan is the means of Disney being able to continue to raise prices with a lot less risk of customer revolt, because as shocking as $649 looks, the cost looks a whole lot easier to swallow when divided by 12.
    PersonallY i find the cost of my AP a better deal than what i am paying for tv or my mobil phone.

  15. #195

    • Can Only Wish For More!
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    741

    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Well, at least that means a parking spot for me and one less person in the parks!

    Just kidding, but I still think $650 is a steal when you see how many times I'm at the parks and how much merch/food I buy each time I go!

    Once my PAP reaches $1000, I will seriously think about considering to think about letting go of my pass.
    Took mom to Disneyland for the first time in over 20 years this week! Woo!
    - March 1, 2006

    She screamed, cried, and laughed...
    - me too!

Similar Threads

  1. [Question] It's almost that time of year Holiday Decorations to go bye bye. What is your fave..
    By PoisonAppleDear in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-25-2011, 08:17 PM
  2. What do you say: "Happy New Years" or "Happy New Year"?
    By Aladdin in forum MiceChat Main Lounge
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-01-2009, 07:34 PM
  3. [News] Say Good-bye to the Honey Mustard
    By Witches of Morva in forum Walt Disney World Resort
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 09-23-2008, 05:53 PM
  4. HK Disneyland says good-bye to bumpy year
    By HongKongDisneyland in forum Hong Kong Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-09-2006, 11:42 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •