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  1. #211

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    Wink Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyBono24 View Post
    After 11 (or could be 12?) years as an AP... I'm finally NOT renewing my pass this time. They've jacked up the price numerous times, and we've paid without complaint.

    This last price hike is just RIDICULOUS though... and NO discounts for long-time passholders either. They just think they can take your money every year without ANY incentive for being a passholder for more than a decade.

    Well that's it, I'm DONE. They aren't getting any more of my money.

    Can't even get on the damn rides anyway... every time we go (even on weekdays) the Cars Land rides are 1-hour waits.
    Webster's Dictionary defines 'Value' as "an amount regarded as a suitable equivalent for something else."

    If you feel that a year of unlimited visits to the Disneyland Resort is worth $649, then this has value; if you do not believe that a year of unlimited visits to the Disneyland Resort is worth $649, then it does not have value - for you.

    I began purchasing our PAPs early on, and we purchased them for years. However, we no longer purchase APs; haven't in about 8 years. I saw the "decline" to the park(s) after the AP was created, and I personally do not agree with the AP Program, but that is my personal (minority) opinion. I still visit the Disneyland Resort once or twice a year, but purchase Park Hopper tickets for the day (or two) that we are there.

    I do know that a 10-game pair of Season Tickets for the (Los Angeles) Angels of Anaheim start at $1,600 per pair, and go up to $3,900; likewise, a "Mini Plan" Season Ticket for the Los Angeles Dodgers (who continue to play in Los Angeles, I do believe...) start in the $5,265 - $6,804 neighborhood, with a 20% discount on merchandise (after 10 years, you get a "loyalty upgrade" to 25%). A Snow Valley Season Lift Ticket (good Dec 10 - Jan 31; all of 7 weeks...) starts at $389 for Adults.

    I agree with you about the one-hour waits; it is shocking and shameful!! All those families with children from out-of-state crowding the Park(s) on their One-Day and Multiple Day Park Hopper tickets... Walt certainly never a wanted good hard-working, AP-purchasing loyal guest such as yourself to have to wait in line with a bunch of day-tripping, "this visit is oh-so-special", once in a lifetime visitors! I'll bet that if he were still around and heard your plight, he would invent some kind of plan where EVERYONE would pay the same entrance fee, little "tickets" would be purchased to ride each attraction, and Fast Pass and Single Rider lines would be eliminated, so EVERYONE would just wait in the same boring themed queue...

    Buh-bye APer; we'll miss you...
    Last edited by EvilQueen; 01-02-2013 at 05:52 PM.
    "I've got the heart of a child..." - I keep it in a box, next to my bed...

  2. #212

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    We have our passes, and pay for some of our grandkids too. Its not easy, but we are in the area, so we can do evening visits, or come early and leave if it gets too crowded. When I look at the costs for some really poorly run/maintained amusement offerings in the area, I really appreciate the fact that I have the quality of Disney. Its a safe destination, always super clean, looks beautiful, and the rides are quite enjoyable. Of course, we might only do one or two rides and we still can have an enjoyable day. It makes it easier to consider the monthly cost ... the best pass is a bit over $ 50 /month. That's a lot less than a cell phone, or a couple of tanks of gas for my car, or satellite TV, or a whole lot of other things we do. If the quality of entertainment you get at the parks is a high priority, there are ways to "afford it" by perhaps reducing what you pay for other things you consider to be less valuable. The bottom line is that the offering price is clearly stated, and we can choose to accept it, or not. Sure I would like it to be less, but its not. In our case, we decided to keep our passes, and at that price, we definitely use them.

  3. #213

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    One other thought: As a business owner, I offer my clients an annual plan for my services. It allows both of us to budget in a way that makes sense. I know what my base income will be, and they know their true expense. The AP works well for Disney because they can spread that base income across the full year and it helps make sure they staff appropriately. It also helps to plan for their expenses related to maintenance and ride revisions. Working strictly on a day to day model is far more difficult for a business.

  4. #214

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Too bad that the AP revenue spread over the year is not enough to cover the expenses (imo). Hence the large increases designed either to bring in more revenue or reduce the number of AP'ers (or a combo of both).
    Get the money in advance, and you don't have to worry about providing quality service.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  5. #215

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    It boggles my mind that people expect Disney to be different than other businesses designed to make money. If they raised the prices so high that people weren't coming then that would be bad business. If people still come it is FANTASTIC business! And the value you get at the Disneyland Resort is incredible in my opinion. Sure, this last price hike for Premium AP holders was very large. I didn't like it, but I get it. So instead of having around $36/mo. taken from my account it's about $55/mo or so. No sweat off my back. I go to Dland Resort probably 15 times a year on average. I work weekdays so I enjoy the weekends...i enjoy Saturdays...and I enjoy NEVER being blocked out. I save money on merch...on food...free parking. If I didn't have this pass I would go to Disneyland probably only a few times a year. As is I'm paying about $650/yr and going 15 times a year. That would cost me close to $2K. Sure, i'm paying more in buying food/merch by going more often, but it all evens out for me.

    As for the crowds....are you kidding me?!?! I have gone on some of the busiest days and if you know what you are doing you can fast pass enough to get on some decent rides. Or do new things like I keep finding to do even though i've been going all my life. One of the joys of going so often is that you don't have to do on a ton of rides each time. You can simply enjoy being there. Go on a few rides. Have some drinks. Some beers if you'd like. That, to me, is what the Disneyland experience is all about. If it were merely about rides then people would go to Magic Mountain instead.

    Finally...and this may sound a bit harsh...but I like that people can't go because they can't afford it. This ain't Knotts Berry Farm, people! This isn't "buy a day get the rest of the year free!". I want it to cost an arm and a leg to go to Disneyland. It wasn't meant for you to go a million times a year. I still love Disneyland today because when I was a kid I was lucky to go one time a year. It was a dream come true to work at Disneyland and now it's a dream come true to get to go whenever I want because I DO have the means.

    I don't want it to be cheap because the park will turn to hell...trust me on that. Go check out Magic Mountain!

  6. #216

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by atherton View Post
    Finally...and this may sound a bit harsh...but I like that people can't go because they can't afford it. This ain't Knotts Berry Farm, people! This isn't "buy a day get the rest of the year free!". I want it to cost an arm and a leg to go to Disneyland. It wasn't meant for you to go a million times a year. I still love Disneyland today because when I was a kid I was lucky to go one time a year. It was a dream come true to work at Disneyland and now it's a dream come true to get to go whenever I want because I DO have the means.

    I don't want it to be cheap because the park will turn to hell...trust me on that. Go check out Magic Mountain!
    Excellent point!

  7. #217

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilQueen View Post
    I began purchasing our PAPs early on, and we purchased them for years. However, we no longer purchase APs; haven't in about 8 years. I saw the "decline" to the park(s) after the AP was created, and I personally do not agree with the AP Program, but that is my personal (minority) opinion. I still visit the Disneyland Resort once or twice a year, but purchase Park Hopper tickets for the day (or two) that we are there.
    Actually, I doubt that it's not really a MAJORITY opinion. Even if the million AP holders reflected 30-40% of the annual attendance, that still leaves a majority who probably feel that the AP program is not good for the parks. I can't think of anyone, who is not an AP holder, who would think that "it's a great system but I don't want to take advantage of it".

  8. #218

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by GrampaTim View Post
    One other thought: As a business owner, I offer my clients an annual plan for my services. It allows both of us to budget in a way that makes sense. I know what my base income will be, and they know their true expense. The AP works well for Disney because they can spread that base income across the full year and it helps make sure they staff appropriately. It also helps to plan for their expenses related to maintenance and ride revisions. Working strictly on a day to day model is far more difficult for a business.
    Having income from AP's doesn't allow them to "staff appropriately". Attendance projections are based on past experiences. The only time they know that an AP will affect staffing is when they are about to expire.

    Generally, I believe that Disneyland gets about 14 million annual attendance. They can base their staffing, maintenance and ride revisions based on those numbers and historical cyclical patterns.

    Actually, the only time they might benefit from AP income is if the park reduced quality, limited operating hours and attraction openings, and/or even closed the park for various emergency situations. And, I believe that some of those have actually happened, with many having the opinion that some of it is actually due to the AP program.

  9. #219

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    If the AP program were a monetary issue for Disney, they would have cut it already. Seeing that they have not ... I suspect it will be around for a loooooong time.


    bottom line is how many people can they get on the property, daily.

    Its not that tough to figure out.

    Or is it? I dunno, all this debate is humorous to me. Especially as a PAP, knowing I can go anytime I want... Because I've paid for the privilege.

    Disney doesn't care if I go 100 times a year, I'm sure they would encourage it.
    what I f find amusing is the amount of non-APers and twice a year visitors are the ones complaining. As a PAP holder, I can honestly say, of all the times I've strolled into the park, I have not seen one iota of the complaints described. Is that because I can go anytime I want, ride or not ride the rides I want in the time I decide to spend there? I've rarely felt the need to spend all day there, because, I've been able to manage my enjoyment and how many rides I decide to ride.

    If I see a line longer than I want to wait, I move on, go another day, get a fast pass or chose the single rider option if available.

    as most AP holders have admitted, we usually DO spend $$ everytime we visit. We may not be buyin balloons or typical souvenirs (which we may already have)... We are eating at the sit downs, buying higher end merchandise, special editions, special events, etc...

    Its up to you how to hate/love the AP program.
    If its a financial issue, maybe it is wisest for you to visit once a year anyhow. If your fiscals are looser, and you enjoy the park, the program is there for you. If you can't plunk down the cash all at once, (many choose to use a credit card - financially silly IMHO) BUT, if you can afford it, want to spread the payment aka budget, the NO INTEREST option is probably the greatest thing about the AP program.

    the moment they chose to offer the AP to anyone (based on approved credit) is when it will all fall down, and they seem to know this.


    -drops microphone- THUD

  10. #220

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by DLFan1995 View Post
    Actually, the only time they might benefit from AP income is if the park reduced quality, limited operating hours and attraction openings, and/or even closed the park for various emergency situations. And, I believe that some of those have actually happened, with many having the opinion that some of it is actually due to the AP program.
    I've been claiming that for 15 years or so.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  11. #221

    • And Dad was my hero.
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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by GrampaTim View Post
    One other thought: As a business owner, I offer my clients an annual plan for my services. It allows both of us to budget in a way that makes sense. I know what my base income will be, and they know their true expense. The AP works well for Disney because they can spread that base income across the full year and it helps make sure they staff appropriately. It also helps to plan for their expenses related to maintenance and ride revisions. Working strictly on a day to day model is far more difficult for a business.
    This is exactly the reason I assumed they continue the program.

  12. #222

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    My family and I the regular so cal APs but live far enough away we only plan to take about 4-5 during the period. I was talking member services the other day and joked with the CM that I am exactly the kind of AP they love, she laughed with a knowing tone. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with high frequency but it would be nice if we as APs somehow could let the parks know. I also like the high and low season pass idea, I heard someone here throwing around.

  13. #223

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by DLFan1995 View Post
    Actually, the only time they might benefit from AP income is if the park reduced quality, limited operating hours and attraction openings, and/or even closed the park for various emergency situations. And, I believe that some of those have actually happened, with many having the opinion that some of it is actually due to the AP program.
    Why would Disney's financial leadership continue a program that only benefited them (as you argue) in such a limited way? It is not like the parks division keeps losing money year over year, just the contrary. Plus, if the emphasis (as Iger keeps telling the financial press) has been to maximize revenue per ticket sold or admission, why would the accountants allow one segment of ticket buyers (single-day admissions) to subsidize another segment (i.e., AP's)? This isn't the airline business of the 90's and it never was. If the AP program were of such limited financial utility as you argue, Disney would have ended it a long time ago.

    But more to the point, GrandpaTim knows what he is taking about. Like any annual services contract that requires that you pay for services before they are rendered in return for some type of discount, the AP program creates a predictable stream of income against which Disney can makes all sorts of calculations and business decisions.

  14. #224

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by DJS View Post
    If the AP program were a monetary issue for Disney, they would have cut it already. Seeing that they have not ... I suspect it will be around for a loooooong time.


    bottom line is how many people can they get on the property, daily.

    Its not that tough to figure out.

    Or is it? I dunno, all this debate is humorous to me. Especially as a PAP, knowing I can go anytime I want... Because I've paid for the privilege.

    Disney doesn't care if I go 100 times a year, I'm sure they would encourage it.
    what I f find amusing is the amount of non-APers and twice a year visitors are the ones complaining. As a PAP holder, I can honestly say, of all the times I've strolled into the park, I have not seen one iota of the complaints described. Is that because I can go anytime I want, ride or not ride the rides I want in the time I decide to spend there? I've rarely felt the need to spend all day there, because, I've been able to manage my enjoyment and how many rides I decide to ride.

    If I see a line longer than I want to wait, I move on, go another day, get a fast pass or chose the single rider option if available.

    as most AP holders have admitted, we usually DO spend $$ everytime we visit. We may not be buyin balloons or typical souvenirs (which we may already have)... We are eating at the sit downs, buying higher end merchandise, special editions, special events, etc...

    Its up to you how to hate/love the AP program.
    If its a financial issue, maybe it is wisest for you to visit once a year anyhow. If your fiscals are looser, and you enjoy the park, the program is there for you. If you can't plunk down the cash all at once, (many choose to use a credit card - financially silly IMHO) BUT, if you can afford it, want to spread the payment aka budget, the NO INTEREST option is probably the greatest thing about the AP program.

    the moment they chose to offer the AP to anyone (based on approved credit) is when it will all fall down, and they seem to know this.


    -drops microphone- THUD

    oh are we asking if the AP program will go bye bye and well what DJS said above, i agree. no i don't see it going anywhere.. someome on this board said that next year they will do away with the AP program and the AP holders don't spend as much as the tourists.. and what DJS said above about the APH'S doing the sit down's and buying special editions of things is true..we may not do the t-shirts and hats route but we do buy special pins,limited editions paintings etc..the AP program is a big investment for Disney and it's not going anywhere. i remember when this thread starated cause the OP was not happy with how the AP program was going..they even said this
    This last price hike is just RIDICULOUS though... and NO discounts for long-time passholders either. They just think they can take your money every year without ANY incentive for being a passholder for more than a decade.
    i still not sure what they were expecting, i think as a Passholder we get a lot of incentives and discounts.they gave us discounts they can taketh away also!
    Last edited by Poisonedapples; 01-03-2013 at 04:31 PM.

  15. #225

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    As an APer, I can walk into any of the Disney shops and consider the high ticket product even more freely than if I were a once a year tourist. Lets say, and I have... Lets say I see something I adore... It's $XXX ... It's not a must have ... But a want. As an AP... I get the $% discount... It's so much easier to impulsively grab these "things".

    Now, that is just another little perk (an incentive to buy an AP) that makes holding an AP so much more satisfying.

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