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  1. #76

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    Maybe because it's true?


    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    I hardly think participating in Micechat is a requirement of holding an annual pass.
    I don't really see how you can take this from their post. They were just surveying out of curiosity from the looks of it.

  2. #77

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by hollywood1939 View Post
    But you not renewing makes it better for us that do go so thanks!
    Not necessarily. I don't know if this pricing change is improving revenue or reducing it, but if Disney makes less, it does less.
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  3. #78

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Bye bye. I'm glad that one less person will be at disneyland next time I go.

  4. #79

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    But the thing is it hasn't led to a less busy park, the parks are more crowded than ever. Honestly, I think they need to start capping daily attendance. With so many guests in the parks nowadays the wear and tear on the attractions has got to be taking a toll hence so many refurbs and down time now.
    The issue there is that it would create a PR nightmare. Can you imagine a family of 6 from Washington who shows up to the park with 5 day park-hoppers and 5 days between flights at LAX but can't get in because Disney is capping attendance for those already inside? It would be a catastrophe. It already is when they have to do it the handful of time a year and lowering that limit would only make it happen earlier in the morning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trav1Disney View Post
    A lot of people bought passes before the price hike so they won't expire till next June so maybe the number of pass holders will go down at that time and lessen the crowds. Mine expires in may but I will renew just because I think the value is worth the price ( in my opinion) parking alone would have already cost be around $750 so I can't complain
    Exactly. The influence of the hike will not take effect until then. Not only that, but those who are not renewing will likely want to go out with a bang and go even more before the expiry comes. That might explain a bit of the rise we are seeing now. Lots of AP's are viewing this as their "last" holiday season at the park.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJS View Post
    AP holders are not to blame for crowds.
    A few points for AP holders:
    For us, if its too crowded, we leave. Sure, we may ride a couple of rides and eat, but we soon go and chalk it up to, catching it next time.
    also, I do believe that the payment plan through Disney is interest free. It's a brilliant plan to cater to the current financial climate. Families find it hard enough to go and spend the cash in one fell swoop, so breaking it up over the year, makes sense to them.
    It also allows those families to enjoy the parks as much as anyone else.
    The issue there is that what you say is only true for some AP holders and not all. Not only that, but there are so many AP's that as you leave because the park is getting crowded, it is likely that the people you pass coming into the park are more AP holders. Especially because that is the demographic that comes for the evening after work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duffy Lover View Post
    Yup. EXACTLY the reason. I'm disgusted with it, so after at least 20 years of AP's, I quit mine this year as well. The amount they're asking is obscene. More money for less & less value.
    I think that the huge numbers of people willing to pay the higher prices show that to some there is still huge value in the park. I think that the issue we are seeing here is more with to do with a lack of discount than a lack of value.

  5. #80

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    For me, the Disney parks offer a few things I don’t get other places for anywhere near the same value.

    1. Social activities – I have met so many wonderful friends through MiceChat events, other unofficial events, and even vacations with friends who bring along their other Disney-loving friends. This has been the easiest way for me to make new friends and meet new people.
    2. Recreation – There are a ton of attractions at the park. Not just rides, but also shows, parades, theming, etc. I love the fact that Disney invests so much in “art”… from the singing groups and dancers in the parades, to the intricate details painted on signs and on murals. I can go see a local show here for free, or $10, or $100, or $200… but I can’t get an annual pass for whenever-you-want access; I love that there is usually something to see.
    3. Dining – There is nothing revolutionary in and of itself, but there are so many great options, grabbing a quick bite or enjoying a long meal at Disney is something I enjoy. Oh, and I love the upscale dining at Carthay and the ability to enjoy it in my shorts.
    4. Business study – I am fascinated by the ways Disney has created various “formulas” to illicit emotion, spur purchases, provide customer service, and other operating procedures. I am able to make better business decisions by studying others, and there is lots to observe in the resorts.
    5. Leisure – I love people watching, and Disney has some great spots to do it.

    So Disneyland for me is more like a social or country club. My major problem is that I live 350 miles away! When you compare an annual pass to a membership that you purchase at a club, plus monthly dues or minimums, it is a great deal.

  6. #81

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    The issue there is that it would create a PR nightmare. Can you imagine a family of 6 from Washington who shows up to the park with 5 day park-hoppers and 5 days between flights at LAX but can't get in because Disney is capping attendance for those already inside? It would be a catastrophe. It already is when they have to do it the handful of time a year and lowering that limit would only make it happen earlier in the morning.
    This is the only real way to cut down on crowding, though. The only way.

    If there are 80,000 (just throwing out a number) in the park, does it really matter if they are there on APs, hopper tickets, or whatever? Let's say, hypothetically, that all APs are gone, all day tickets are more expensive, and you still have 80,000 in the park that day. The crowds are going to be just as awful as they were when half of those were APs - and as mentioned, if everyone is on a day ticket, they're going to be more determined to stay, regardless of the crowds.

    Bodies are bodies, and they're still going to be making the park crowded to the point of being unpleasant, making lines long, et al. It's been brought up that some of the worst times of the year, in terms of capacity, are the times when all APs except Premium are blocked out. The SoCal and Deluxe APs aren't there at Christmas, for instance, and they're not there this weekend...so IMHO it's not fair to always assume they're the source of overcrowding.

    Disneyland is more of a local destination than a vacation spot, a la WDW, so you're less likely to see the situation of "poor family who is traveling can't get into the park."

    Also, especially with NextGen coming in, it might be possible for people to reserve their admission dates/times with Disneyland, and have those counted toward the capacity numbers (much in the way that some museums make a certain number of reservations per hour and allow guests to book their times in advance). If you have a family coming from out of town who is reserving their Disneyland tickets in advance, they could also hold their park dates.
    Last edited by Malina; 11-24-2012 at 11:27 AM.

  7. #82

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    This is the only real way to cut down on crowding, though. The only way.

    [...]
    First of all, I want to say that I wasn't suggesting to only raise prices for AP holders. The price increases need to be (and likely are) tuned to keep the right balance.

    As we have seen though, that isn't the only way. The other way is to raise the price so that people have to adjust the frequency with which they visit. The other way is of course to increase capacity.

    Ruining a family's vacation and making them waste hundreds or thousands of dollars is not a "real" solution. That family would likely never go back to any Disney resort ever again after a situation of that magnitude. Also, I think the whole point of this exercise is to alter the dynamic of the resort. The mentality there is that Disney realizes that it doesn't need to offer discounts to fill the park so it isn't going to. It wasn't ever really created to be a local hangout. Even though the local crowd is large, that doesn't mean that those spending more to come to the park should be ignored and compromised.

  8. #83

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Raising the price is not a solution. I believe success is based on capacity not ticket sales. If they can sustain a packed park for 98% percent of the year...

    Also, staycations attribute to a majority of attendance due to recent economic situations. Not that it's a bad thing. If we lived closer to the park, we'd have a staycation every weekend!

    there are a whole lot of Disneyland lovers and that is terrific.

  9. #84

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    ^Again, the only thing that changes is the frequency with which people can visit. Sure, people can no longer go every week.... That is the harsh reality of any scheme we can think of to keep the crowding down.

    Unless you can only just barely afford to go once a year, you are not being priced out of Disneyland. AP holders just might have to get used to the idea that they can only go once every few months instead of every week.

  10. #85

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Interesting discussion. Here is my perspective. Currently, I do have a premium AP. I was planning on renewing prior to the price increase, but now I have not decided whether I will or won't. I live out of state, so I do have to factor in hotel and airfare. Prior to the price increase, I could basically get two yearly trips in for the price of one. Now, I haven't done the number crunching yet, but I still think I can do that but not as comfortably as before. Personally, I do wish that Disney would offer a pass of some sort geared for "out of state" folks because we naturally are going to be using our passes somewhat differently from how locals use theirs. Perhaps a pass good for unlimited visits during a certain month or season. If that's not possible, Disney could at least offer park hoppers for six or seven days. That said, if I were a local, I definitely wouldn't have a problem paying the $650 because I think that would be a bargain given how frequently I would be going to the park.

  11. #86

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    ^If the ID checks at the gate prove effective, I hope that they do indeed bring back the longer passes.

    In the meantime, note that you can go to a ticket booth and add days to a park-hopper for around $20-$30.

  12. #87

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    I still find the Bias against AP comical.
    I bought an AP so I could go ANYTIME I WANTED. That's the point of the program. You certainly make it what you can when you buy it.
    We'd be very disappointed and would be outraged if they restricted an unrestricted AP, while charging the same or MORE.
    The AP program is perfect for anyone who visits the park more than 3 days a year. Like my wife and I do. Even though we live out of state, We have, within the first 7 months of holding our AP's, have been in the park almost 12 days. We have relatives in SoCal, but we have opted more than a couple of times, to stay at a local hotel. also, Not every day was a full day. A few have done short days, ride a ride or three, have lunch and buy some fun stuff.

    It has also allowed us to, on a whim, while in SoCal, jump into the parks just because we could. Which is another reason we made the purchase.

    Any restrictions or negative edits to the AP program would not fare well. Sure, those who seem to march in the ANTI-AP parade will be trumpeting, but they would soon be paying for it in an up charged ticket price.

    the program works well for the park, works well for the AP holders and overall, everyone.

  13. #88

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Bias based on one's own self-interest is also comical, but quite frequent in discussions about the AP Program. I just count the number of I's" in a post.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  14. #89

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    First of all, I want to say that I wasn't suggesting to only raise prices for AP holders. The price increases need to be (and likely are) tuned to keep the right balance.

    As we have seen though, that isn't the only way. The other way is to raise the price so that people have to adjust the frequency with which they visit. The other way is of course to increase capacity.

    Ruining a family's vacation and making them waste hundreds or thousands of dollars is not a "real" solution. That family would likely never go back to any Disney resort ever again after a situation of that magnitude. Also, I think the whole point of this exercise is to alter the dynamic of the resort. The mentality there is that Disney realizes that it doesn't need to offer discounts to fill the park so it isn't going to. It wasn't ever really created to be a local hangout. Even though the local crowd is large, that doesn't mean that those spending more to come to the park should be ignored and compromised.
    But again, at the holiday seasons and summer, ie, peak times, the APs are blocked out and the park is STILL unbearably crowded. That means that the crowding is coming from hopper and one day ticket sales, NOT from APs. So it's not about the frequency at all; it's about capacity. If I choose to go to the park once a year and the day I decide to go is, say, New Year's Eve, and so do 70,000 others, it's not going to be any less crowded.

    Again, I ask: if all 80,000 in the park had day tickets, and not APs, would it be any more pleasant than having 80,000 guests of mixed ticket sales? I don't think so, because the lines for Space Mountain would still be 120 minutes, regardless.

    Letting advance ticket purchasers reserve their spots at the park would solve the "ruin the vacation!" issue and make it possible to lower capacity. Disney already recognizes that at some points, the park gets too crowded and they have to close the gates. They just need to lower that threshold.

    I'm not sure the dynamic really needs to be changed, either. There seems to be a difference of opinion as to what Disneyland should mean to visitors. There's no reason, IMHO, that Disneyland should not be available to locals, or that they should not be able to visit when they wish. Like it or not, those locals are the bread and butter, and if Disney alienates them and they leave, they WON'T have enough out of town visitors to sustain themselves for the long term. It's exactly why every museum, theme park, et al out there has a membership or pass available for purchase. Those locals help.

  15. #90

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    Re: Say bye-bye to a 11-12 year Annual Passholder...

    The holidays drive up demand from everyone during those times so people will come anyway. Its a false parallel.

    In any case, I don't know why my point continues to be linked to a segregation of the AP population. I just stated that broad price increases are called for across the board because demand for the park is high and price increases will effectively control the frequency that people visit. Doesn't matter who is visiting or why. Everyone will come a little less.

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