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  1. #151

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    Re: How long has this been OK?

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    [...]

    The statement you made that I was replying to was: "People sitting around at tables [...] doesn't fit into the theme of Tomorrowland." Your posting made it seem like it was the people you had a problem with and so that was what I responded too. I apologize if I misinterpreted your meaning and intention with that post.

    [...]
    Even here you have cut out the most important bit. People sitting around at tables is fine and nobody will disagree about the necessity of a lived in feeling. But even here you have so carefully removed the reference to pin trading because it doesn't really make sense that in the future people will sit around cheap outdoor furniture (without chairs, mind you) on railings and tables selling their wears in random tucked away corners. Of course, this might speak to Tomorrowland's greater issue of lacking environment. The issue isn't what they are doing so much as how it is being facilitated. The area has a purpose (pin trading) but that purpose is not explained. That bothers me, and so many others, because every other purposeful place in the park has some sort of something to help place it in the land which it occupies.

    All I am saying is that Disney could invest a bit in a themed lounge for this not only to promote it, but also to aid the story of the park. That could even be done in this very spot if Disney was so inclined to do so. I am not asking for anything fancy... Just something.

    As to your comment about everything not needing a story, I think many from WED would have disagreed. I mean, if people are going to get upset about a coffee shop not fitting on Main Street because the company that runs it didn't exist yet (even though coffee was a huge business even then), then I think that expected level of detail should be applied throughout the park.

  2. #152

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    Re: How long has this been OK?

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwy Squirrel View Post
    Expected to get this reply but posted anyway. This is my observation and opinion. If someone looks around at our modern world and sees otherwise, they are entitled to voice that observation and difference of opinion. It's an unfortunate sign of our times that we don't engage in discussion anymore. To me the modern world has lost something of it's civility, common courtesy, common sense and manners and this is partly expressed by the attire and appearance of a large number of our fellow citizens. You may disagree, I expect most will. But it's not rude to state an opinion that differs from the mainstream. I'm done on the topic; this will not turn into one of those back and forth "yes you are no I'm not" that occurs so often here and on most internet discussion sites. Good day to you.
    Funny, I was always taught that commenting on other people's appearance was extremely rude.

  3. #153

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    Re: How long has this been OK?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebekkap View Post
    Funny, I was always taught that commenting on other people's appearance was extremely rude.
    Yes - when comments are specifically directed at an individual. The previous poster is sharing an observation and belief that how the general populace, in the way that they dress and carry themselves, show no respect for themselves or others.
    "Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money" - Walt Disney

  4. #154

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    Re: How long has this been OK?

    Quote Originally Posted by HM 339 View Post
    Yes - when comments are specifically directed at an individual. The previous poster is sharing an observation and belief that how the general populace, in the way that they dress and carry themselves, show no respect for themselves or others.
    I beg to differ.

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    Re: How long has this been OK?

    Quote Originally Posted by explodingboy View Post
    I beg to differ.

    **Link removed per board policy.... MiceChat does not allow or approve of sites whose purpose is to belittle or make fun of other people
    Last edited by penguinsoda; 12-17-2012 at 12:53 PM.
    "Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money" - Walt Disney

  6. #156

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    Re: How long has this been OK?

    Quote Originally Posted by HM 339 View Post
    Funny Pictures at WalMart
    I don't really get what the point you're trying to make here is.

    So, you think that it's ok to judge/make fun of a whole group of people rather than individually? There is no difference there, it's the same thing only on a larger scale..
    Last edited by penguinsoda; 12-17-2012 at 12:53 PM.

  7. #157

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    Re: How long has this been OK?

    Quote Originally Posted by explodingboy View Post
    I don't really get what the point you're trying to make here is.

    So, you think that it's ok to judge/make fun of a whole group of people rather than individually? There is no difference there, it's the same thing only on a larger scale..
    Where it is deemed as rude is when a comment is specifically made from one individual to another re: their fashion. What Screwy Squirrel was trying to convey was social commentary that our society, as a whole, has lost respect for itself and respect for others and this is reflected in society in the way that we dress these days. This is an observation and is not presented in an effort to belittle an individual or group, but rather to point out that current fashions are representative of society's loss of respect four ourselves and one another.

    If you're at Disneyland and see an individual in a shirt that is covered in pictures of penises, for you to go up to them and make a comment would be considered rude - but if you were to express to those in your party how taken aback you were by their fashion choice, that's not rude, that's a discussion. Just because conversation takes place about someone's fashion choice does not automatically make it rude..
    "Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money" - Walt Disney

  8. #158

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    Re: How long has this been OK?

    Although I'm very familiar with MiceChat rules, I judge people by their looks every single day. To think we're above that is silly, it just depends on the actions we take. To say you don't judge others means you don't realize you do it in your own mind but are better than someone else who says "that person dresses like crap and it's inappropriate".

  9. #159

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    Re: How long has this been OK?

    Quote Originally Posted by HM 339 View Post
    Where it is deemed as rude is when a comment is specifically made from one individual to another re: their fashion. What Screwy Squirrel was trying to convey was social commentary that our society, as a whole, has lost respect for itself and respect for others and this is reflected in society in the way that we dress these days. This is an observation and is not presented in an effort to belittle an individual or group, but rather to point out that current fashions are representative of society's loss of respect four ourselves and one another.

    If you're at Disneyland and see an individual in a shirt that is covered in pictures of penises, for you to go up to them and make a comment would be considered rude - but if you were to express to those in your party how taken aback you were by their fashion choice, that's not rude, that's a discussion. Just because conversation takes place about someone's fashion choice does not automatically make it rude..
    Now I understand your point, so thank you for clarifying.

    I don't think it's as black and white as you're describing it though. But we will just have to agree to disagree.

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    Re: How long has this been OK?

    Quote Originally Posted by HM 339 View Post
    What Screwy Squirrel was trying to convey was social commentary that our society, as a whole, has lost respect for itself and respect for others and this is reflected in society in the way that we dress these days.
    I don't think this is a call that can be made though. Because by that standard, the 1950s were horribly disrespectful to themselves when compared to say the 1800s. Standards and styles change over time and you can't look at the fashion of one group and say they don't respect themselves because this other group over here with a completely different standard dresses differently. Did cavemen wearing only loin cloths respect themselves any less than a Victorian era man or woman wearing a full body covering bathing costume?

    While an argument may indeed be made that there seems to be a general lack of self-respect among song groups of society, that statement can not be generalized across all groups nor can it be based upon the way people dress. You might see a guy in full leather and chains out on a bike some weekend and make judgments about him and his respect, etc only to find that he is actually a well respect, honest, upright judge. You simply can't say anything about a person based on their clothes beyond "those are their clothes" and maybe "they like that band."

    I have met teenagers dressed in full emo/goth garb who were massively intelligent, spoke incredibly well, and were kind and respectful of all others around them in every way.

    Judging a book by its cover, or indeed a person by their clothes, is a very difficult and often times fraught with errors, business.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  11. #161

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    Re: How long has this been OK?

    Hmmmmm.. I'm curious then - what are YOUR perceptions of bikers and emos..



    "To me the modern world has lost something of it's civility, common courtesy, common sense and manners and this is partly expressed by the attire and appearance of a large number of our fellow citizens."

    The quote that started it all and while I don't necessarily agree with some of the things that Screwy Squirrel deems to be offensive, I do agree with this statement.

    A caveman's loin cloth was more function than fashion and I wouldn't say that the 1950s were horribly disrespectful to themselves when compared to say the 1800s because, as you stated, standards and styles change over time. The thing is though, in the 1800s and also in the 1950s, there was an expectation on what to wear and how to act for certain events and in either era I think it can be reasonably presented that those expectations were met by society. The fashion and the expectations may have changed - but the expectations were being met and society held you accountable. This is not the case anymore, unfortunately.

    It's been shown numerous times on this board that self-respect and civility are conveyed through our fashions. Every single thread about someone's trip to Club 33 where they dressed up to attend, they all marvel at how they were ogled as they walked through Disneyland in their suits and dresses. It was not very long ago at all when this fashion for Disneyland was the norm and not the exception. There has been serious degradation to out societal values and this is just small example. (I'm not saying that we should dress to the 9s for Disney, just using it as an example of change)

    Our society has become too self-centered, selfish and oblivious to others to even bother caring what the expectations are, much less meet them. If we, as a community, do dare to challenge an individual's actions, no matter how offensive, we are then labeled as rude, insensitive, bigots, etc. There's no accountability - do what you like and if someone else has an issue with it, it's someone's else fault or problem.

    If someone is at Disneyland, a place full of and mainly for kids, with a shirt with an offensive or questionable saying or graphic on it do you say anything or do you just let them do them? Is there a fear of being branded intolerant or are we just not holding people accountable anymore?

    When did it become OK to go to the store in your pajamas? (yes, I understand having to do things for sick kids, etc, but when pajamas are the fashion choice for shopping - there's an issue)

    When's the last time you were at a funeral or wedding and EVERY ONE was dressed appropriately? How about a funeral or wedding with no kids with their eyes glued to a phone or Nintendo DS?

    How many times have you walked through the park and watched someone, head down, eyes glued to their phone or whatever and just walk straight ahead through and into whomever with no regard? Even getting an apology from them when they bump into you is a 50 / 50 proposition..

    How many threads are there on this board about strollers vs ankles?

    People don't care about each other anymore. As a society, we'll do what we want, when we want and wear what we want and if you don't like it, you get to be labeled insensitive and intolerant.

    It's wrong - there's no expectations and no more accountability..





    Bleh - big society rant over and waiting for post deletion or to be moved to the lounge in 5..4..3..
    "Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money" - Walt Disney

  12. #162

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    Re: How long has this been OK?

    Quote Originally Posted by HM 339 View Post

    Bleh - big society rant over and waiting for post deletion or to be moved to the lounge in 5..4..3..
    You forgot to mention the increase of passive/aggressive behavior in society, but that sentence pretty much covered it.

    Feel free to add me as a friend on Facebook (Just mention MiceChat)

    "The thing that makes us different is our way of thinking, our judgement and experience acquired over the years. Giving it 'heart.' Others haven't understood the public. We developed a psychological approach to everything we do here. We seem to know when to 'tap the heart.' Others have hit the intellect. We can hit them in an emotional way. Those that appeal to the intellect only appeal to a very limited group. Let's not let the mechanics get in here and foul the whole thing." -Walt Disney

  13. #163

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    Re: How long has this been OK?

    After reading.. i still don't see why the pin trading and pin traders are a nuisance to Disneyland... they are doing a hobby that they love

  14. #164

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    Re: How long has this been OK?

    Quote Originally Posted by Poisonedapples View Post
    After reading.. i still don't see why the pin trading and pin traders are a nuisance to Disneyland... they are doing a hobby that they love
    There are a lot of hobbies people love. I don't see stands set up for people to trade bowling equipment. But Disney makes money off of the pins so it's allowed.

  15. #165

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    Re: How long has this been OK?

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    I don't think this is a call that can be made though. Because by that standard, the 1950s were horribly disrespectful to themselves when compared to say the 1800s. Standards and styles change over time and you can't look at the fashion of one group and say they don't respect themselves because this other group over here with a completely different standard dresses differently. Did cavemen wearing only loin cloths respect themselves any less than a Victorian era man or woman wearing a full body covering bathing costume?

    While an argument may indeed be made that there seems to be a general lack of self-respect among song groups of society, that statement can not be generalized across all groups nor can it be based upon the way people dress. You might see a guy in full leather and chains out on a bike some weekend and make judgments about him and his respect, etc only to find that he is actually a well respect, honest, upright judge. You simply can't say anything about a person based on their clothes beyond "those are their clothes" and maybe "they like that band."

    I have met teenagers dressed in full emo/goth garb who were massively intelligent, spoke incredibly well, and were kind and respectful of all others around them in every way.

    Judging a book by its cover, or indeed a person by their clothes, is a very difficult and often times fraught with errors, business.
    This.

    I don't know about anyone else, but I actually like to try to get to know people, or assess them on their behavior, instead of labeling them or judging them on their clothing. Calling someone a "biker," "emo," "goth" or whatever really erases their humanity and reduces them to a label. You have no idea if that "biker" is a respected surgeon in his day job (since that's a job most people approve of), or if that guy with all the foreboding tattoos happens to be a youth pastor (another example I've seen firsthand) or if that "emo" kid is actually someone who is respectful, kind and intelligent, because you've just put them in a box.

    And if someone's dressed in pajamas, or a chicken suit, or a three-piece suit, or leiderhosen, or whatever, what does it matter to you? They're not harming you in any way. So they're not dressed in a way that meets your personal standards...why do you, personally, get to be the arbiter of what other people wear? If it's a t-shirt with a expletives or something of that nature at Disneyland, it's against their dress code and can certainly be pointed out to staff or security. If it's Club 33 where they are expected to meet a dress code that is set out, that's another thing. Otherwise...why not worry about what you're wearing and enjoy your day instead of judging others? Frankly, every single one of us would be "offensive" to some other group, if we looked hard enough.

    As I've said in other threads, class and manners can't be bought, and I've certainly seen many, many "well dressed" and "respectable" people act like completely self-centered, rude creeps.
    Last edited by Malina; 12-18-2012 at 01:25 PM.

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