Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

[greenalfonzo]

here in tacoma we have a little theme park called wild waves, people generally get passes and drop their kids off as a way to keep them busy for the day. because of this, it is filled with rude, unruly teenagers for the most part and not a fun day for my family at least. there are times when we visit DLR (which we only do every other year) and it can feel just like this. there are crowds of local teens, loud and disrespectful.. it almost feels like they are hanging out like the mall rather than it feeling like a resort as it was intended.

As an out-of-stater, this is really the only complaint I have about the AP program. I have seen a ton of extremely boisterous, rude behavior by teens who are obviously local, on their own, usually in large groups, and way more interested in showing off to their friends than they are in allowing first time visitors & others enjoy the magic of the park.

[DJS]

This is where I disagree. Yes it's low risk to a point. Once the park is full to the point that they are getting less tourists it's a huge problem. Hotels aren't being filled, less people are staying the entire day there so they are eating less on site. The more people come from out of town and see the unbearable crowds, see the 100+ minute wait for some of the E-ticket rides, there will be less of a desire to come back.

It's a good cash cow now for Disney, but eventually the cattling of guests will catch up.

Most tourist chalk up the big lines as part of the experience. It's something they expect and endure. Does it Ruin the experience? As one who used go once every couple of years, I had no problem.

These days the average tourist, day passer, non AP'r, what have you... May be a bit annoyed by the lines, but will not turn away.
I've never had the notion of never coming back. My desire to return is as strong as it ever has been, lines, crowds, AP or not.

Do we have hotel stats? The only hotels that could possibly suffer are the park resorts. Outside offerings thrive on conventions. Anaheim is a convention town. A majority of the commerce outside of Disneyland, caters to convention center traffic.

much like Vegas, two commerces, gambling and conventions.
speaking of Vegas, the casinos gauge success by volume. If their resort is booked full, success. If any percentage of guests spend money on their casino floor, bonus.
Disneyland works the same way. Get the guests in, at all costs. There are no hard sales once inside. Not one CM is grabbing you to sell you product or food. It's there to keep guests inside.

again, like the casinos. What are the chances a guest is going to put even just a dollar in a slot machine, buy a souvenir or even eat inside their walls? Statistics say those chances are pretty high.

---------- Post added 11-26-2012 at 05:03 PM ----------

As an out-of-stater, this is really the only complaint I have about the AP program. I have seen a ton of extremely boisterous, rude behavior by teens who are obviously local, on their own, usually in large groups, and way more interested in showing off to their friends than they are in allowing first time visitors & others enjoy the magic of the park.

It's an unfounded assumption.
So far as allowing... Is that a Requirement for holding an AP?
i think the envy is still biased against AP holders by non AP holders. It's pretty childish.

[greenalfonzo]

It's an unfounded assumption.
So far as allowing... Is that a Requirement for holding an AP?
i think the envy is still biased against AP holders by non AP holders. It's pretty childish.

Nonsense. Go sit on main street and watch the kids wander in after school lets out. You can pretend that there is no such thing, but everyone in the real world (including Disney staffers I've talked with about) recognize that it is a problem.

Envy? Really? Talk about an "unfounded assumption."

[Bongo]

Man, is it just me or is this topic becoming a bit hot in here?

here in tacoma we have a little theme park called wild waves, people generally get passes and drop their kids off as a way to keep them busy for the day. because of this, it is filled with rude, unruly teenagers for the most part and not a fun day for my family at least. there are times when we visit DLR (which we only do every other year) and it can feel just like this. there are crowds of local teens, loud and disrespectful.. it almost feels like they are hanging out like the mall rather than it feeling like a resort as it was intended.

Not ALL of us are that way, okay. Why people people always pick out the loud ones and push that assumption onto us that obey the law and are respectful and such? 16. Parents drop me off. I spend the entire day there from 8 to 12. I kept, I am respectful, and I am all those other things. I can agree with you that there are those types of park goers but can't people put distinction between the groups instead of saying "Well I've seen a lot of people in this group do this, so everyone of that group does the same thing"

[Disneymike]

You asked a question.. I answered it. I didn't say it was my belief.

Payday loans have stigmas associated with them too.. are you now going to judge me because I am aware of things?

The only question I asked was what is the big deal if someone pays up front or pays monthly. I took it as you judging people with the whole "stigma" (your word, not mine) thing as you compare monthly ap payers to people who use layaway and now payday loans. Some folks aren't in position to enjoy some things in life and if they can finance a Disney AP so be it. It's not my lot in life to say "Well, because you can't afford to pay up front forget about joining all the happy people here in the Magic Kingdom". Disney provides that to people that otherwise might not be able to enjoy what we all here on Micechat appear to enjoy and I for one am ok with that. Conversely, if Disney were to get rid of the entire AP program, I am all for that to. Disney will do what they will do no matter what we think and want.

[biggsworth]

The amount of judging here is awesome. I can't believe people can generalize so much. I want to multi quote so many people but it just isn't worth it. Until you ask all the rude people you see in the park if they have a AP or not there really isn't anyway for you to distinguish it or not. To me a person is a person and they act however they were brought up. APer or not. All my friends and family are APers and do not treat the park this way.

Also if people choose to pay one lump sum versus a monthly payment also doesn't really mean they can or can't afford something either. I always use credit to buy big ticket items especially if I don't have to pay interest it's just a smart way to buy or invest money that's a simple fact. It would be different if there was interest involved. People love to judge so quickly without any facts.

[DJS]

Nonsense. Go sit on main street and watch the kids wander in after school lets out. You can pretend that there is no such thing, but everyone in the real world (including Disney staffers I've talked with about) recognize that it is a problem.

Envy? Really? Talk about an "unfounded assumption."

Maybe it is unfounded, my apologies, it really translates into either that or pettiness.

Never, not once, have I related a crowd, rude person, mess, or any other of the negative discussion points mentioned, to AP. Rudeness is usually attributed to poor manners and upbringing.

We can't ever judge books by their covers.
We should assume all guests have paid, and leave it at that. The moment we start to classify a person by their ticket price, we succumb to bias. We then emotionalize the topic and base our emotions on our feelings based on our feelings towards economic classification. Some resent the lower class because they assume, based on their emotions and personal histories with them. Some resent the upper class for having more than they do, despite how that status was achieved.

The class warfare mentality has been translated into This topic, it may not have been worded this way, but it sure is a parallel. It's so absurd.

Its the happiest place on earth. When I walk in, the only thing that gets me is the family with a newborn. That poor little baby is not going to remember all that magic around him/her! I applause the parents for having the endurance to task the park with such a small human. I don't know if they are from Austria or Anaheim. Not my concern and its not hindering my day, at all.

Nothing does. It's a magical place. If you are letting these petty issues get in the way of having fun, you may really need to re-evaluate something or another.

There's only one Grumpy allowed in the parks and its not you. (Not directed at anyone specific)

[Disneytwins]

The two types are the same. I see no difference and I have no reason to believe those two are different.

I can tell you that the needs and wants of APers versus traditional, once-a-year guests are pretty different.

[Trevor]

As an out-of-stater, this is really the only complaint I have about the AP program. I have seen a ton of extremely boisterous, rude behavior by teens who are obviously local, on their own, usually in large groups, and way more interested in showing off to their friends than they are in allowing first time visitors & others enjoy the magic of the park.

I personally just take offence with the people doing those activities regardless of how they got in. I remember once seeing teens (I was one at the time myself, mind you) trying to con their way into Space Mt. via the fastpass line, while others sat in a circle at the top of the exterior Space Mt. queue just kinda chatting and occasionally heckling people in the line. I still to this day cannot wrap my head around the fact that that is how some people experience the park. I can't say it is wrong but it is certainly foreign from the perspective of a "Tourist" who's trips to the park were always few and far between, involving a day of flights and nights of sleepless anticipation.

Most tourist chalk up the big lines as part of the experience. It's something they expect and endure. Does it Ruin the experience? As one who used go once every couple of years, I had no problem. [...]

To be fair, I expect and endure a cold every November but I still hate it, try to avoid it, and acknowledge that it negatively impacts my day to day enjoyment.

[...] It's an unfounded assumption.
So far as allowing... Is that a Requirement for holding an AP?
i think the envy is still biased against AP holders by non AP holders. It's pretty childish.

Again, I don't agree. Lots of dislike for the system, but when you really look into it the problems people have are to do with specific guest types and not really the AP holders themselves. Sadly, often new members do not know to avoid the fine line and get lumped into an argument they really are not trying to make.

[the mermaid]

Lots of dislike for the system, but when you really look into it the problems people have are to do with specific guest types and not really the AP holders themselves. Sadly, often new members do not know to avoid the fine line and get lumped into an argument they really are not trying to make.

I'm really not referring to the payment plan, I'm referring to the people who are on the monthly payment plan. I have seen it a few times on MC, but also on other websites. I even once overheard a group of people at DL talking about how people on the payment plan don't even deserve to be there, and basically trashing the people themselves, not the plan. I asked this question specifically not about the payment plan, because I understood already that people dislike it because of the overcrowding issues, but about the people themselves, because it's something I really don't understand.

[Trevor]

In that case, those sorts of comments that biasedly judge people may be in conflict with the MiceChat terms of service (as outlined in our FAQ) and we encourage anyone who sees them to use our reputation system, report the post, or contact a moderator to have the situation looked into.

Of course, there is no direct correlation between "bad guests" and ticket media. Any statement saying that is unnecessarily creating tension. I don't know why people tend to pick on groups of people like that but it should be avoided to ensure that our site (and everywhere else in general) remains friendly and welcoming. Nobody who utilizes a service that Disney offers should be judged as though they all fit into one profile.

[kristibaer]

I would say that society in general has gone down the proverbial toilet and that there are good and bad in both monthly pay AP'ers as well as paid in full AP'ers. Also, how do you know that the spitters and the dirty diapers, and the rude people are Ap'ers?

lanyards around their necks

---------- Post added 11-27-2012 at 12:03 PM ----------

I wonder if AP holders are complaining about other AP holders. If you're just a casual park goer, you wouldn't know the difference on the affect on park attendance. It is likely the frequent park goer (the typical AP holder) would complain about park overcrowding. So the complaining is all for the sake of creating a more pleasant experience for yourself(fish).
Yeah, it is the truth.

I don't think it selfish of me when I see these HUGE crowds and think back to before AP's when my family went once a year every March (off season before spring break) and now think about families that have saved for the expense of a vacation here don't really get to appeciate it as much as they once could.

---------- Post added 11-27-2012 at 12:05 PM ----------

The thing is, the feeling that the park is "yours" is a flawed perspective, since it's not. Having a higher AP or payment plan doesn't entitle you owning the park. I'm not aware of the AP non-monthly payment plan making you a shareholder for DL.
And just because you see a disrespectful group of people who let their toddler pee at Splash Mountain who had a cheaper pass (I'm going to assume that they told you they had one, not that you assumed they had one), does that mean that everyone else who is on a payment plan or has a lower end pass is going to disrespect the parks? Does having a more expensive pass come with no/less blockout dates and better manners? Ooh, I'd like better manners! Maybe I should purchase a premium pass!
The same goes with seeing people spitting, leaving dirty diapers, throwing trash, etc. Did you go up to every single one of these people and ask them if they have monthly payments or a lower end pass? I think not. You don't have to have a premium pass to have manners. I didn't see any requirements for that.

Actually I am a share holder, so is my mom. And when I said there was a feeling of it being "mine" I also said that there was a pride and respect for the place, not that's in just "mine" to enjoy

---------- Post added 11-27-2012 at 12:21 PM ----------

Like Flynnibus said, the question was asked and I offered what I've heard and other observations. I place the primary blame of DISNEY for overselling AP's no matter how they were sold. I don't that financers are "bad", but the increase of AP's since then has made the parks a less enjoyable experience and certainly not worth $2k for AP's for my family anymore.

[calsig31]

And the reason for the overcrowding is ALL AP's, not just the monthly pay folks.

It wasn’t as big of an issue before the monthly plans started. Really, if they wanted to thin out the herds, they should offer only the Premium level pass, maybe the Premiere as well, and no payment plans.

Of course he wasn't inferring they don't have jobs. He was speaking to the idea of reward at the end of a long investment. The more scarse or difficult it is to achieve something.. the more you appreciate the result. Common vs rare...

Exactly!

They payment plan, made the AP easy. Sure I said easy.

Which is exactly what led to the overcrowding issue.

[kristibaer]

This is where I disagree. Yes it's low risk to a point. Once the park is full to the point that they are getting less tourists it's a huge problem. Hotels aren't being filled, less people are staying the entire day there so they are eating less on site. The more people come from out of town and see the unbearable crowds, see the 100+ minute wait for some of the E-ticket rides, there will be less of a desire to come back.

It's a good cash cow now for Disney, but eventually the cattling of guests will catch up.

You hit it! Foot traffic does not equal income. As I mentioned. my mom had pages of reservations for meals at Storytellers, Blue Bayou, Plaza Inn, etc. When we went, we SPENT.

[DJS]

You hit it! Foot traffic does not equal income. As I mentioned. my mom had pages of reservations for meals at Storytellers, Blue Bayou, Plaza Inn, etc. When we went, we SPENT.

Attendance does equal income

---------- Post added 11-27-2012 at 01:38 PM ----------

It wasn’t as big of an issue before the monthly plans started. Really, if they wanted to thin out the herds, they should offer only the Premium level pass, maybe the Premiere as well, and no payment plans.

Exactly!

Which is exactly what led to the overcrowding issue.

that is an emotional assumption.

if it were a "real" issue for Disney, the AP membership would be more like Club 33, with a membership cap and wait list. Since this does not seem to be a problem, it's an open program.

its not an issue for them, so why is it for anyone? The payment plan is a valid profit point. Monthly profits flowing in from outside the park. For a contracted 12 months.

The park is going to fluctuate in crowds, it has for years, especially after the opening of a big ride. Happened with Star Tours, indiana jones, the opening of DCA and of course, cars land.

This can be watched as the months roll by, depending upon its overall success, as the wait times slip.


the monthly AP's are not to blame.