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  1. #76

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJS View Post
    that is an emotional assumption.

    if it were a "real" issue for Disney, the AP membership would be more like Club 33, with a membership cap and wait list. Since this does not seem to be a problem, it's an open program.

    its not an issue for them, so why is it for anyone? The payment plan is a valid profit point. Monthly profits flowing in from outside the park. For a contracted 12 months.

    The park is going to fluctuate in crowds, it has for years, especially after the opening of a big ride. Happened with Star Tours, indiana jones, the opening of DCA and of course, cars land.

    This can be watched as the months roll by, depending upon its overall success, as the wait times slip.


    the monthly AP's are not to blame.
    There is nothing emotional or assuming about it. When something is made more affordable, more people take advantage of it, as in this situation. That is why there was a boost in AP sales once the monthly plans were offered. Getting rid of the payment plans would take away some of the crowd.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  2. #77

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    There is nothing emotional or assuming about it. When something is made more affordable, more people take advantage of it, as in this situation. That is why there was a boost in AP sales once the monthly plans were offered. Getting rid of the payment plans would take away some of the crowd.
    It's still an assumption.

  3. #78

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJS View Post
    It's still an assumption.
    Basic economics.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  4. #79

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Emotional economics.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  5. #80

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Just wondering guys, why is this thread rated as terrible?

  6. #81

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Quote Originally Posted by the mermaid View Post
    Just wondering guys, why is this thread rated as terrible?
    Where is it rated at all?
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  7. #82

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    Where is it rated at all?
    The stars next to the Threads name of the Disneyland Resort Forum frontpage. You can vote for a thread rating at the top of each page of any thread. It is a drop down menu that lets you choose to rate by one star(Terrible) to five stars (Excellent).
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    "The thing that makes us different is our way of thinking, our judgement and experience acquired over the years. Giving it 'heart.' Others haven't understood the public. We developed a psychological approach to everything we do here. We seem to know when to 'tap the heart.' Others have hit the intellect. We can hit them in an emotional way. Those that appeal to the intellect only appeal to a very limited group. Let's not let the mechanics get in here and foul the whole thing." -Walt Disney

  8. #83

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Probably because of the unfounded and emotional bias against the monthly AP holders

    ---------- Post added 11-27-2012 at 05:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Basic economics.
    Getting rid of cars land would decrease the crowds too.

    Cant blame AP holders without solid evidence.

  9. #84

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timicus View Post
    The stars next to the Threads name of the Disneyland Resort Forum frontpage. You can vote for a thread rating at the top of each page of any thread. It is a drop down menu that lets you choose to rate by one star(Terrible) to five stars (Excellent).
    Ah! Thanks for the tutelage, learn something new everyday!
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  10. #85

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJS View Post
    Attendance does equal income
    No it doesn't. Attendance = 'opportunities'

    When people don't pay to get in the door - that's not income.

    A Mall does not generate income by you simply being in the mall. There are statistics about the # of opportunities you convert into sales. Ex: For every 10 people that walk by a display, one will buy. A conversion rate of 10%.

    So the goal is to increase the # of people walking by (opportunities) to make that 10% be 10% of a bigger number.

    That's basic advertising. And that's the same theory on getting more people into the park... more people in.. more opportunities.. more opportunities that are converted into sales.

    Making money selling APs is based on three principles
    1 - Upsell the initial purchase. Increase the spend up front (get their money now..) by promising a greater 'discount' if you do so. Same thing as 'Buy 2, get 1 free'. Get their money now while you can. The idea that not everyone reaches the break-even point is just extra gravy
    2 - Corner the person's entertainment budget - If someone has bought into your program, they are more likely to return to your product, vs the competition
    3 - Increase opportunities - By making the barrier to enter the park low, you increase the frequency of visits, which increases the # of opportunities which ultimately you aim to convert into sales.

    When you combine #2/#3 together.. basically what you try to do is corner all the person's discretionary spending in your market segment.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJS View Post
    that is an emotional assumption.
    No, it's business and economics.
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  11. #86

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    We're basically speaking the same language. You're relating foot traffic to income. I've simply stated that the more people inside, the more money they make.
    The emotional assumptions is still valid only due to the lack of hard fact. So, we can only assume what we've said here as "business and economics". They are theoretically sound, but until the facts are solid and in front of us, all we can do is assume, and it's an emotional response.

  12. #87

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJS View Post
    We're basically speaking the same language. You're relating foot traffic to income. I've simply stated that the more people inside, the more money they make.
    Opportunity is not a trivial word in that. You still have to convert them, and that's the hard part. Disneyland could make admission free tomorrow... but that doesn't necessarily mean the increased revenue would outweigh the new costs.

    You have to attract not only people, but the 'right' people.. in that they have the desire and ability.. to spend. That's why the stereotypical packs of roving teenagers just hanging out are not good examples of 'increased attendance'.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJS View Post
    The emotional assumptions is still valid only due to the lack of hard fact. So, we can only assume what we've said here as "business and economics". They are theoretically sound, but until the facts are solid and in front of us, all we can do is assume, and it's an emotional response.
    It's commonly accepted business theory. It's as close to 'fact' as anything that looks into the future can be. If you take something where the demand exists, but people are held back by the cost.. if you lower the cost, you will convert more sales. The assumption is the hold up is cost.. remove the cost barrier.. and true demand will be converted into sales until a new constraint is introduced (like limited capacity).

    There are people who would like to visit DL.. but can't due to cost. Lower the cost to the point where the barrier no longer exists, and that demand will be converted into sales. Same thing applies with APs. Price them within reach, and untapped demand will be converted. And that's what monthly payments helped extend.
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  13. #88

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    I am pretty sure the next price increase will happen in May of 2013. What I don't know is what the price increase will be . Does anyone here care to guess to what the PAP will be raised ? It is $649 now. How about $679 ??

    ---------- Post added 11-28-2012 at 09:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    No it doesn't. Attendance = 'opportunities'

    When people don't pay to get in the door - that's not income.
    I enjoy the posts of Calsig and Flynnibus and Druggas.

    AP holders pay a per charge price to get in the door. The price is their annual pass cost divided by the number of times they visit the resort. If I pay $649 for my pass and I visit 12 times in a year, my entrance fee is $54.08 per visit.

    Even if I spend not one more penny once I get to the resort, I have paid $54 to get in. This is by far the best bargain on Disneyland admission. The probability that I not spend one more dollar once in the park is pretty slim. In my own personal experience, I almost always have at least one meal and one snack. I can only speak about my own experiences.

    The PAP break even point is 6 visits. If you are going to visit the park more than 6 times in a year, you would have to be a turnip to not get the PAP.

  14. #89

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJS View Post
    Attendance does equal income

    As pointed out several times, foot traffic/attendance does NOT equal income. It means more Disney staff piad to be on hand to attend to crowds. More and more people bring their own food it seems. No purchases there and AP's don't buy souveniers like tourists. When I had my AP, there were times I didn't spend a dime in the park. So just becasue people are doesn't mean they are spending.
    It may have zippity to do with doo-dah

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Quote Originally Posted by kristibaer View Post
    As pointed out several times, foot traffic/attendance does NOT equal income. It means more Disney staff piad to be on hand to attend to crowds. More and more people bring their own food it seems. No purchases there and AP's don't buy souveniers like tourists. When I had my AP, there were times I didn't spend a dime in the park. So just becasue people are doesn't mean they are spending.
    This is incorrect. Disney reports on per person spending. In almost every quarterly and annual financial report, it reports higher per person revenue. No, it doesn't distinguish between APs and tourists. It is at best an average. Thus, it means people are spending more at each trip. APs are not dragging down the day trippers. There is no breakdown on what they are spending. Perhaps admission tickets are included with the in-park spending. Overall, people are spending quite a bit on each trip.

    When I had an AP, I didn't spend much on a trip, but your definition varies on what that means. I can spend at least $10 if I'm hungry for snacks or a meal. This isn't much, but it is still an adequate amount. I hardly ever buy souvenirs, except when I see something interesting that I must have. As long as I'm in the vicinity of Disneyland Resort, I could break out my wallet.

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