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  1. #91

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    I'm going out on a limb and assuming now. Every pair of feet in the park, ends up dropping money on something Disney. It doesn't have to have been spent inside. The park is a giant advertisement for anything Disney. This is a place to to grab a hold of Disney consumers new and old.

    As I have worked at big stage shows in Las Vegas, I know it's more about a full house,, overbooking and standing room only than the end of month totals. Seats are given away, to ensure capacity is met. Discounts, like, groupon, living social, 2 for one, group rates, convention specials, locals, etc are financially more important than the full price of admission.

    Disneyland is no different.

    ---------- Post added 11-28-2012 at 11:22 AM ----------

    I still do not think the topic title question has been answered.

    rack it up to envy or socio-segregationalistic ideals placed upon them by those who claim to dislike them.

  2. #92

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJS View Post
    Getting rid of cars land would decrease the crowds too.

    Cant blame AP holders without solid evidence.
    If one needs more evidence than an accepted business principle that making something in demand more affordable increases the masses that will come out for the product, one only needs to look at how Black Friday crowds descend upon the stores like vultures scooping up every bargain that is offered.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  3. #93

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    From a Disney perspective it is a great plan, more folks in the park. From the personal perspective of an "Old Guy" Premium AP holder, a lousy idea that puts more folks in the park.

    It's all about the plan, not about the folks.

  4. #94

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Quote Originally Posted by the mermaid View Post
    Just wondering guys, why is this thread rated as terrible?
    Unfounded charges of envy.
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  5. #95

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    If one needs more evidence than an accepted business principle that making something in demand more affordable increases the masses that will come out for the product, one only needs to look at how Black Friday crowds descend upon the stores like vultures scooping up every bargain that is offered.
    The AP payment plan is a perceived bargain. It isn't a bargain in actual dollar value. No discounts are offered. You're merely given the right to spread your payments. Even the first payment is extremely large. You pay a full day's equivalent ticket and the first payment almost immediately.

    The payment plan makes it easier for those people on the fence to buy their tickets. It will not prevent them from buying it eventually.

  6. #96

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    The AP payment plan is a perceived bargain. It isn't a bargain in actual dollar value. No discounts are offered.
    True, but allowing people to pay in installments makes it easier for more people to get it. That is why there are so many people holding passes now. Get rid of that, and the number of passholders will drop siginificantly.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  7. #97

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Quote Originally Posted by ravencroft View Post
    I enjoy the posts of Calsig and Flynnibus and Druggas.

    AP holders pay a per charge price to get in the door. The price is their annual pass cost divided by the number of times they visit the resort. If I pay $649 for my pass and I visit 12 times in a year, my entrance fee is $54.08 per visit.
    I want to clarify - just because the statements made apply outside of the AP example. When I said 'People who don't pay..' I was not referencing APs, but simply the business principles. Opening the gates to the public with free admission (such as public shopping malls.. or a county fair) doesn't mean revenue. You boost attendance to boost the # of opportunities to convert. You still need to convert to make money

    So the idea of 'well park attendance is up.. of course this program is good for the parks!' - is at best, incomplete assumptions. Attendance isn't as important a metric as 'per guest spending'. That shows Disney's ability to seperate people from their money. They can boost attendance at will... but getting people's money is the real measure of health.

    Now if Disney couldn't get people interested in coming, even if it were free... then it would be a different story. But that's not the case for Disney, so it's pretty much a moot tangent.

    To your logic about dividing costs per visits... that really boils down to perspective. From the customer point of view, yeah your breakdown makes sense. But from the company side, not as much. The money you gave them was fixed - regardless of how often you come or not. The money is sunk up front (advantage to the company...) and they only get more money if you spend more. You showing up this week doesn't boost the monthly revenue statements unless you spend more. You are only a cost to them until you break out your wallet.

    For an accountant, the AP program is a god send. Guaranteed revenue you can apply over the whole period. But it's a nightmare if you are an Operational planner.

    This is why people talk about it like giving up the AP program would be like asking the baby to give up the bottle. It's a sweet stream of milk. But you'll never enjoy the taste of a true great meal if you never leave the teet. Disney needs to leave the teet and take the harder path to get a better result. And harder means more risk... and that means less chance some exec will put their neck out to try it.

    ---------- Post added 11-28-2012 at 05:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    True, but allowing people to pay in installments makes it easier for more people to get it. That is why there are so many people holding passes now. Get rid of that, and the number of passholders will drop siginificantly.
    IMHO - I don't think it would cause the # of people to drop significantly. I think it would expose people to the price hikes more, and possibly wean the top levels (as the hikes should have done). Lack of monthly payments won't turn people off the product, simply alter maybe what they can afford. So instead of a PAP, maybe they go Deluxe or SoCal, etc.

    I don't think killing monthly payments would solve any crowding problem - but it certainly would help give the prices more teeth and possibly allow Disney to shape the population a bit better. The only answer to uncontrollable crowds is doing away with unlimited admission APs. Move to a allotment or discount model.
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  8. #98

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    This is why people talk about it like giving up the AP program would be like asking the baby to give up the bottle. It's a sweet stream of milk. But you'll never enjoy the taste of a true great meal if you never leave the teet. Disney needs to leave the teet and take the harder path to get a better result. And harder means more risk... and that means less chance some exec will put their neck out to try it.
    Holy Bingo, Batman -- that has to be the most on-the-money thumbnail summary of the AP quandary I've ever read.
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  9. #99

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Disney needs to leave the teet and take the harder path to get a better result. And harder means more risk... and that means less chance some exec will put their neck out to try it.
    Huh? You think they haven't taken risks?

    There is risk all around. Hiking prices is a risk. So is spending $1 Billion on DCA.

    You only see what you want to see. I assure you it isn't easy. Anyways, the risk you're suggesting is not a risk, it is suicide on their bottomline.


    IMHO - I don't think it would cause the # of people to drop significantly. I think it would expose people to the price hikes more, and possibly wean the top levels (as the hikes should have done). Lack of monthly payments won't turn people off the product, simply alter maybe what they can afford. So instead of a PAP, maybe they go Deluxe or SoCal, etc.

    I don't think killing monthly payments would solve any crowding problem - but it certainly would help give the prices more teeth and possibly allow Disney to shape the population a bit better. The only answer to uncontrollable crowds is doing away with unlimited admission APs. Move to a allotment or discount model.
    By hiking up prices as they have done in the full range of tickets, it makes the lower end APs with lots of blackout dates seem like a bargain. However, Disney is always in the business of upselling. They want to upsell everyone to the Premium.

    I don't get why we are constantly discussing the congestion issue in a very narrow way. Let's establish a few criteria. (1) APs are not going away. (2) APs are not going away. (3) APs are not going away.

    I'll tell you what will happen if they do change their ticket policy in a radical revolution.

    1. APs Gone. Multi-Day Tickets Gone. Ticketbooks back. (Revenue Drops Immediate, Attendance drops.)
    2. Mix TicketBooks / Unlimited Rides Ticket mix. (Improved Revenue, Attendance Improvement)
    3. Unlimited Rides and Multi-Day Tickets Back (Revenue and Attendance Improves Again)
    4. APs Back. (Revenue through the roof. Attendance reaches new high)

    Why do you want to fix congestion?
    Last edited by StevenW; 11-28-2012 at 03:15 PM.

  10. #100

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    I still find the anti-monthly payment arguement pretty lame.

    There is no reason to dissolve the no interest payment plan.
    if it were a PROBLEM, a real problem, for the company, interest would be charged.
    That, would eliminate me, from paying the month-to-month fee.
    it wouldn't discourage everyone. But, if there are families that do not want or cannot drop the full price in one shot, and are willing to pay the interest, the company still wins. PLUS INTEREST!

    and if interest rates apply, there is a credit check. A credit check would weed out those "no good, dirty rotten cretins" many here have made the monthly APers out to be.
    Last edited by MickeyMaxx; 12-02-2012 at 01:30 AM.

  11. #101

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJS View Post
    I still find the anti-monthly payment arguement pretty lame.

    There is no reason to dissolve the no interest payment plan.
    if it were a PROBLEM, a real problem, for the company, interest would be charged.
    If the parks were ran by one person.. who felt all pain and all gain. I would agree. But in reality is we have fiefdoms that politic and jockey for influence and sway. An action may be great for one division, may be horrible for another - but as they operate independently, until it hurts 'enough' for someone above to actually do something.. it will likely go unchanged.

    And if that pain for you, means joy for me - I'm gonna be even less enticed to correct it. And if that joy for me means I deliver on the near-term goals I'm responsible for delivering - if I'm a guy out only to make my boss happy with quarterly results.. then there is even less reason to 'fix' it.

    Your comment assumes people are out for the best outcomes for everyone - they aren't necessary. It's a leadership problem where you set the goals of how success is measured wrong and prioritize the wrong things.
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  12. #102

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    I'm guilty of not reading entirely through this thread (due to the wife having her night out and me watching unruly toddlers) so my apologies if I'm beating a dead horse with this:

    I believe that there's a stigma that gets placed on all monthly payment pass holders, the SoCal ones especially, that they are simply "mass-market" consumers that purchase primarily on value and are un-interested in the actual research and/or study of a brand they intend to purchase or have even become a member of.

    I think that a few MiceChatters here can relate to the disdain I feel whenever TDA rolls out these new AP benefits in order to appease these adopted fickle consumers. Case in point is the recent Candelight fiasco where the media relations people abruptly recanted their dining package offer. The fact that Disney now supports flip-flopping on commitments to satisfy a swelling demographic is in my opinion, offensive.

    Taking a step back I know not everyone who's recently bought into the monthly AP program is the aforementioned. However, somewhere in the big green building is an analytic spreadsheet somewhere that holds the justification for all this craziness that's been going on. Craziness, I might add that never ever happened back before the AP sub-pass packages were offered. "Quality of Life" in the park has gone down a little for some but a whole lot for others. So the OP's question is certainly justified and valid reasons do exist as to why some get a little disturbed by this major minority in the parks.
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  13. #103

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    I think if you generalize you are only seeing what you want to see. To say that all lower passes that use monthly payments don't truly care about the park and the brand is like saying that the only thing that woman are good for is having babies and cooking/cleaning. Both are generalizations that cannot hope to show an accurate picture of the demographic they purport to have knowledge of.
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  14. #104

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    Why do you want to fix congestion?
    Because it lowers the value of the product.

    I'll level with you... I stopped visiting Disneyland for several years after a series of truly horrible experiences just post the introduction of the payment plan. When I related the tales to my family, I was met with complete disbelief; "surely you're just exaggerating!" "oh, you're just blowing it out of proportion, it can't have been that bad."

    It was.

    It was bad enough to keep me, a total Disney fan, away from Disneyland. It even prompted me to ditch my beloved home park for Walt Disney Walmart in Orlando. The value of the Disneyland experience was just no longer there at that point.

    My husband got me back there with a promise of a first-ever stay at the Disneyland Hotel. Things had improved a bit. We're still guarded about spending money at the DLR...
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  15. #105

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    Re: Why is there dislike for monthly payment APers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Acpisme View Post
    I think if you generalize you are only seeing what you want to see. To say that all lower passes that use monthly payments don't truly care about the park and the brand is like saying that the only thing that woman are good for is having babies and cooking/cleaning. Both are generalizations that cannot hope to show an accurate picture of the demographic they purport to have knowledge of.
    Hence my last comment in that post but I see your point. My mentioning that is simply a median assessment based on the input I get from talking to other (yep I'm one too) monthly pass holders and the popular stigma of the common red blooded Black Friday shopping American consumer. Surprisingly, they're not as different from one another as you'd think.
    Last edited by G24T; 11-28-2012 at 10:28 PM.
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