View Poll Results: Does it still bother you that DCA is not 100% California-themed?

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  • Yes

    32 21.05%
  • No

    120 78.95%
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  1. #61

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    Re: Does it still bother you that DCA is not 100% California-themed?

    Personally, the title, Disney's California Adventure, is too restrictive.
    I like to think, it's just a title. Not a theme.

  2. #62

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    Re: Does it still bother you that DCA is not 100% California-themed?

    Quote Originally Posted by gatheringrosebuds View Post
    I have to agree with Mr. Wiggins here. WDI's job concerning thematic integrity seems to be creating connections between a current franchise and a land's theme. Just because they can justify their decision doesn't mean that I have to agree or accept it. It's possible that I may agree with them. It's also possible that I may not agree. But certainly not going to accept something as thematically perfect just because WDI says it is.
    Again, you don't have to like it, but it's essentially calling them liars. I work in a creative field and when I justify an idea, it's not a matter of opinion or debate. Someone may not LIKE my justification, but no one has any right to say it's not true and no one (especially not a general audience member with no background or training in design) is an any place or authority to accept or reject it. To do so is to argue a fact, which is absurd. Sorry, but that's just how it is. I'm not attacking anyone personally, but when an artist presents an idea and its formation, it's not an opinion. The only thing up for criticism is the ideas execution.

  3. #63

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    Re: Does it still bother you that DCA is not 100% California-themed?

    Before the make over I barely spent any time in DCA now I spend almost equal time between tbe 2 parks so to me its successful and I for one was never a huge fan of the California theme!
    BGood! It's not just my motto its my name!

  4. #64

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    Re: Does it still bother you that DCA is not 100% California-themed?

    I, for one, would greatly prefer a FANTASIA theme over California. Only because I want a Greek/Hercules-based area as well as Chernabog rising from a Bald Mountain every Halloween.

    And a photo op with Yensid.

    And Hollywoodland can be remade to be like the city in Fantasia 2000's Rhapsody in Blue segment.



  5. #65

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    Re: Does it still bother you that DCA is not 100% California-themed?

    Quote Originally Posted by TiggerHappy View Post
    I, for one, would greatly prefer a FANTASIA theme over California. Only because I want a Greek/Hercules-based area as well as Chernabog rising from a Bald Mountain every Halloween.

    And a photo op with Yensid.

    And Hollywoodland can be remade to be like the city in Fantasia 2000's Rhapsody in Blue segment.

  6. #66

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    Re: Does it still bother you that DCA is not 100% California-themed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chesire View Post
    Bugs Land would work for me if they somehow tied its theme to Central Valley.
    I agree, but this would have to be a SUBSTANTIAL tie in. Not on the scale of the Cars Land "fits because of car culture/the southwestern desert/Route 66" type of tie in. There is no "bug" culture in California, and the farming environment is not totally connected to the state in the same way the southwest is. But if the land were to more explicitly be ABOUT the Central Valley with bug characters to populate it I would be for it.

    That being said, I doubt we will ever see a tie in on this level, which is why I'd rather see it replaced.

    Quote Originally Posted by DARTH MAUL View Post
    Well when the people saying it does fit are the Imagineers, I say it fits. Don't think people should be arguing with their explanations for their creative ideas. If they don't like it, that's one thing, but arguing against it doesn't work. The fact is they've explained these attraction's place in the California theme and they make perfect sense.
    I don't buy this one bit. Imagineers are entitled to justify their creative decisions on whatever grounds they see fit, but that doesn't mean their justifications/explanations automatically have validity/make sense.

    And I am just curious, how does "a bug's land" make perfect sense? I see how it possibly makes some sense, but perfect sense? Really?
    Last edited by cruise; 12-09-2012 at 04:28 PM.
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  7. #67

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    Re: Does it still bother you that DCA is not 100% California-themed?

    Quote Originally Posted by cruise View Post
    I agree, but this would have to be a SUBSTANTIAL tie in. Not on the scale of the Cars Land "fits because of car culture/the southwestern desert/Route 66" type of tie in. There is no "bug" culture in California, and the farming environment is not totally connected to the state in the same way the southwest is. But if the land were to more explicitly be ABOUT the Central Valley with bug characters to populate it I would be for it.

    That being said, I doubt we will ever see a tie in on this level, which is why I'd rather see it replaced.



    I don't buy this one bit. Imagineers are entitled to justify their creative decisions on whatever grounds they see fit, but that doesn't mean their justifications/explanations automatically have validity/make sense.

    And I am just curious, how does "a bug's land" make perfect sense? I see how it possibly makes some sense, but perfect sense? Really?
    Well it's right across from the wine vineyard, which is Ca themed and it doesn't break the theme it just doesn't exactly wave a flag saying "We're in California". In my last post I was mostly referring to things from the revamp, which have all held the theme. This land is on the brink, but it doesn't break it. It could easily take place here and that's all the justification they need. Like it or not.

  8. #68

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    Re: Does it still bother you that DCA is not 100% California-themed?

    Quote Originally Posted by DARTH MAUL View Post
    Well it's right across from the wine vineyard, which is Ca themed and it doesn't break the theme it just doesn't exactly wave a flag saying "We're in California". In my last post I was mostly referring to things from the revamp, which have all held the theme. This land is on the brink, but it doesn't break it. It could easily take place here and that's all the justification they need. Like it or not.
    This is totally fair, but at the same time (for various reasons) it's not enough for me, and all I am saying is that I don't think I should have to agree or accept an imagineer's justification for it. I am not calling them liars, I am simply stating that, in my opinion, their justification doesn't muster. I completely believe that the imagineers who built "a bug's land" actually believed that it fit into DCA, I just think they were wrong, not lying.

    Their is no objective truth involved when discussing whether something is breaking theme.
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  9. #69

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    Re: Does it still bother you that DCA is not 100% California-themed?

    Quote Originally Posted by cruise View Post
    ...I don't buy this one bit. Imagineers are entitled to justify their creative decisions on whatever grounds they see fit, but that doesn't mean their justifications/explanations automatically have validity/make sense...
    Exactly. From the Nemo Submarines to the Small World PR snafu, from Winnie the Pooh to Miley Cyrus, the once-illustrious WDI has lost its credibility on issues of thematic integrity. That's not calling them liars, it's stating the fact that they are just as politicized, just as subservient to the corporate power structure and just as mind-melded with the corporate groupthink, as any other division in the Disney Corporation.
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  10. #70

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    Re: Does it still bother you that DCA is not 100% California-themed?

    Quote Originally Posted by DARTH MAUL View Post
    Again, you don't have to like it, but it's essentially calling them liars. I work in a creative field and when I justify an idea, it's not a matter of opinion or debate. Someone may not LIKE my justification, but no one has any right to say it's not true and no one (especially not a general audience member with no background or training in design) is an any place or authority to accept or reject it. To do so is to argue a fact, which is absurd. Sorry, but that's just how it is. I'm not attacking anyone personally, but when an artist presents an idea and its formation, it's not an opinion. The only thing up for criticism is the ideas execution.
    I personally don't think this follows. Art is entirely about justification, about exploring ideas connections that the audience may not had been previously exposed to. As an artist you can choose whichever justification you feel fit, and your ability to find and explore new connections is part of what makes someone a great artist. However that never puts the piece of art above critique. In fact on of the best parts of art are that it inspires discussion about the attempted connections and ideas to the point that some it invokes new ideas and connections and continues the creative process forward. Many post-modern artists in fact espouse purposefully hyperbolized justifications, which they often realize will be rejected by the average fewer, with the intent of starting discussion and conversation in and about the underlying principles and theme.

  11. #71

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    Re: Does it still bother you that DCA is not 100% California-themed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Exactly. From the Nemo Submarines to the Small World PR snafu, from Winnie the Pooh to Miley Cyrus, the once-illustrious WDI has lost its credibility on issues of thematic integrity. That's not calling them liars, it's stating the fact that they are just as politicized, just as subservient to the corporate power structure and just as mind-melded with the corporate groupthink, as any other division in the Disney Corporation.
    Precisely, just because Imagineers call themselves artists doesn't mean we need to blindly drink the underlying corporate cool-aid.

  12. #72

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    Re: Does it still bother you that DCA is not 100% California-themed?

    I'm not saying it's above critique. I'm saying that claiming something people explain the theming of, is not in theme, is absurd. It's people giving their dislike the authority to devalue. Like I said, people can dislike all they want, but saying these things break the theme after it's already been explained that it does not, simple argues facts.

  13. #73

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    Re: Does it still bother you that DCA is not 100% California-themed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Exactly. From the Nemo Submarines to the Small World PR snafu, from Winnie the Pooh to Miley Cyrus, the once-illustrious WDI has lost its credibility on issues of thematic integrity. That's not calling them liars, it's stating the fact that they are just as politicized, just as subservient to the corporate power structure and just as mind-melded with the corporate groupthink, as any other division in the Disney Corporation.
    if that's how you feel, you're simply not a fan of Disney anymore. Nothing they do will appease you.

  14. #74

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    Re: Does it still bother you that DCA is not 100% California-themed?

    Quote Originally Posted by TTN View Post
    Precisely, just because Imagineers call themselves artists doesn't mean we need to blindly drink the underlying corporate cool-aid.
    And just because someone does something you don't like it, doesn't mean that thing is not valid and justified.

  15. #75

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    Re: Does it still bother you that DCA is not 100% California-themed?

    The California theme itself is too restrictive.

    A park should been more tied together than DCA is, but the overall theme of DCA is silly. If the park were strictly California it wouldn't be all that interesting and appealing.

    Its the nature of the beast and the shame in not picking a more interesting theme before re-doing the park.

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