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  1. #31

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    Quote Originally Posted by clara View Post
    Maybe I'm wearing the rose colored glasses but...all those descriptions listed aren't they what we see today? I know that Disney is very well known for having all these qualities. Maybe some won't agree with that but Disney has all those qualities for me and I'm sure a few others.
    I didn't say that they're completely absent in the Disneyland of today. Yes, they're still present, and that's the reason why I still relish each trip to Disneyland, despite any problems that I have with the park. However, I think that the Disneyland of the past had more of these elements, and that's why so many people who have experienced that Disneyland are bitter with today's Disneyland.

  2. #32

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    Quote Originally Posted by gatheringrosebuds View Post
    I didn't say that they're completely absent in the Disneyland of today. Yes, they're still present, and that's the reason why I still relish each trip to Disneyland, despite any problems that I have with the park. However, I think that the Disneyland of the past had more of these elements, and that's why so many people who have experienced that Disneyland are bitter with today's Disneyland.
    Ah yes, I agree with this. That is kinda why I say I wished I could get in the Delorean and go to 1950-60's Disneyland and see what they saw.

    But in all fairness..the people of the past also had more of those qualities listed as compared to the people of today. So it's all across the board.

    But alas, I can't get in the Delorean so I just try to be happy with what I have now and try to be as positive as possible about it.
    Last edited by clara; 12-14-2012 at 02:41 PM.

  3. #33

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    Quote Originally Posted by gatheringrosebuds View Post
    There was a post a while ago (I don't remember who the poster was) that really summed up my feeling on the impossibility of the old Disneyland returning. We don't want an exact recreation of the Disneyland of the past. We want a Disneyland that reflects the levels of style, imagination, creativity, story, artistry, character, sophistication, and immersiveness of the past.
    Some of us feel that with maybe a few exceptions, we haven't really lost that. Just our perception of it changed.
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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  4. #34

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    I feel that I've grown as the park has. Granted, my first park visit, was as a kid with family in 1980. Then I returned after 8 years and it was even more magical. Then visited once a year for a couple years following, still magic.
    I was there after DCA opened, felt the growing pains and really didn't like that park. Visited as it grew, I grew to love it.
    DLR is still magic. Every bit. The Main Street, granted, not every square inch is accurate to some, but why should it be?
    you pass under the arch and it is the big picture we soak in. Bathe in it. It's the feeling we all associate with "nostalgia".

    again, big picture

  5. #35

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    When it comes to my opinion on the changes of Disneyland I am on the fence about things. My first visit was in 1984 I think or it was summer 85 anyways. I remember riding Adventures through Inner Space. It's a really vivid image of the ride and it actually scared me so much because I thought I was going to shrink when i boarded the omnimover.

    Flash forward to the next trip I remember which was when Star Tours was new in 87 so I was 10. I remember looking around for Adventures through Inner space and being crushed to learn it was gone. That's when I realized that sometimes things change for the better. So while we lost one Attraction we gained another which I felt was actually an improvement.

    Now let’s go to 1998 when the Rocket Rods opened, here is a case where they really messed up by taking out the People Mover for something that was so inferior that it wasn't even funny. Even worse the attraction couldn't stay open. I was so bummed when I found out the PM was going to be going and even more disappointed once I rode the RR. In this case they didn't make improve the park and sadly it’s still a wreck in this case.

    So to stop me from rambling anymore I feel that I look at nostalgia and changes from two different viewpoints but even those are skewed from my vision of what I come to expect from the park. I went to DCA in 2002 and was so angry at the park and how lame it was I didn't return to the resort until 2007. I couldn't believe how bad they crushed Walt's vision of DL by building this piece of crap in the parking lot. One thing I noticed after my 5 year vacation away from something I loved is that even so many years later when I walk into the gates of DL there is still magic everywhere. The buildings on mainstreet still look the same to me in my mind as they did in the 80s, 90s,2000s and today. Space Mountain gives me enjoyment every time I ride it. I can go on Indy 4 times in one day and love every minute of it. Looking at the park Walt himself built will always bring a smile to my face.

    I do think Disney pays attention to the details still. Especially in the more recent history. The fact that Starbucks is going to be served in the park doesn't really break a theme in my opinion it's just switching out a brand of coffee. Not re-facing the building to be a Starbucks’s restaurant. It’s all in the eye of the be-holder what’s important to all of us and I believe truly Disney tries to find that medium to appease everyone and believe they do it better than anyone else in the business.

  6. #36

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    Quote Originally Posted by DJS View Post
    The Main Street, granted, not every square inch is accurate to some, but why should it be?
    Nobody is asking for that. What I desire is a Main Street, USA with its own experience that goes beyond aesthetic treatments, one with depth and meaning beyond the existing feelings associated with brands that makes for a more pleasant wrapper to an otherwise generic experience.

  7. #37

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    I think the big issue with nostalgia is finding that balance between old and new that is acceptable to the modern public. Read some reviews for the Queen Mary Hotel and you'll find people who decided to stay there realizing that those old ships aren't as luxurious as you'd expect from watching Titanic. You must account for changes in public tastes and logistics. At one time Main Street had a tobacco shop that would not make sense today given the change in public perception about smoking. The camera shop (soon to lose the Kodak sponsorship; another sign of changing times) is now mostly a place to look at your PhotoPass pictures; I doubt they sell much film. In some ways even Coke is an example since after the New Coke fiasco Coke Classic was reintroduced but with one big difference: due to rising sugar costs Coke now used corn syrup. So you could argue that the addition of Starbucks reflects the American public's change in tastes in coffee which largely began in the 90s. Prior to the 90s, few Americans knew what a cappuccino was.

    I personally don't mind the Starbucks, but if I had to raise an objection it wouldn't be about whether or not it ruins the atmosphere or affects nostalgia. My objection would be: why doesn't Disney just learn to make a decent cup of coffee? They've responded to other concerns about their food by introducing better menu options, why not coffee? I can understand need to bring in operating partners for some of their specialized shops (I believe Arribas still operates the crystal shops), but a premiere hospitality company that runs multiple resorts should know how to make a cup of coffee. They can use Starbucks brand coffee beans without having an actual Starbucks store in the parks.

  8. #38

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    Quote Originally Posted by clippers6 View Post
    *snip* They can use Starbucks brand coffee beans without having an actual Starbucks store in the parks.
    This was suggested elsewhere. The very concept of Starbucks on Main Street was derided as "breaking theme".
    "I do not like to repeat successes. I like to go on to other things." - Walt Disney

  9. #39

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    Perhaps this is totally off-topic for this, but what the hey:

    I DO NOT like the 'U.S.' Coke. I much prefer Mexican Coke for one reason: They still use real sugar, not corn Syrup. Tastes totally different!

    Some changes in the park I have liked, some I have not. But I still go when I can afford to. (I think we can ALL agree the crazy price hikes are not liked by anyone!) You cannot please everyone!

  10. #40

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    Quote Originally Posted by gatheringrosebuds View Post
    I didn't say that they're completely absent in the Disneyland of today. Yes, they're still present, and that's the reason why I still relish each trip to Disneyland, despite any problems that I have with the park. However, I think that the Disneyland of the past had more of these elements, and that's why so many people who have experienced that Disneyland are bitter with today's Disneyland.
    Great post.
    “No worries, stay calm, one question. 
Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”

  11. #41

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    Quote Originally Posted by clippers6 View Post
    I think the big issue with nostalgia is finding that balance between old and new that is acceptable to the modern public. Read some reviews for the Queen Mary Hotel and you'll find people who decided to stay there realizing that those old ships aren't as luxurious as you'd expect from watching Titanic. You must account for changes in public tastes and logistics. At one time Main Street had a tobacco shop that would not make sense today given the change in public perception about smoking. The camera shop (soon to lose the Kodak sponsorship; another sign of changing times) is now mostly a place to look at your PhotoPass pictures; I doubt they sell much film. In some ways even Coke is an example since after the New Coke fiasco Coke Classic was reintroduced but with one big difference: due to rising sugar costs Coke now used corn syrup. So you could argue that the addition of Starbucks reflects the American public's change in tastes in coffee which largely began in the 90s. Prior to the 90s, few Americans knew what a cappuccino was.

    I personally don't mind the Starbucks, but if I had to raise an objection it wouldn't be about whether or not it ruins the atmosphere or affects nostalgia. My objection would be: why doesn't Disney just learn to make a decent cup of coffee? They've responded to other concerns about their food by introducing better menu options, why not coffee? I can understand need to bring in operating partners for some of their specialized shops (I believe Arribas still operates the crystal shops), but a premiere hospitality company that runs multiple resorts should know how to make a cup of coffee. They can use Starbucks brand coffee beans without having an actual Starbucks store in the parks.
    “No worries, stay calm, one question. 
Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”

  12. #42

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    Quote Originally Posted by clippers6 View Post
    In some ways even Coke is an example since after the New Coke fiasco Coke Classic was reintroduced but with one big difference: due to rising sugar costs Coke now used corn syrup.
    Quote Originally Posted by PinBrian View Post
    Perhaps this is totally off-topic for this, but what the hey:

    I DO NOT like the 'U.S.' Coke. I much prefer Mexican Coke for one reason: They still use real sugar, not corn Syrup. Tastes totally different!
    The switch to corn syrup occurred before New Coke but was also mired in lawsuits. The reason the switch only occurred in the United States and Canada is because the original, perpetual bottling contract signed by Asa Candler had The Coca-Cola Company supplying sugar to the bottlers at a set price. Every time sugar prices rose, The Coca-Cola Company had to get the bottlers to voluntarily pay a higher price. Ok, enough of that tangent.

  13. #43

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    Quote Originally Posted by gatheringrosebuds View Post
    We don't want an exact recreation of the Disneyland of the past. We want a Disneyland that reflects the levels of style, imagination, creativity, story, artistry, character, sophistication, and immersiveness of the past.
    So well said. Lets make this into a plaque and mail it to Disney.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Ol' Dan View Post
    I reckon I'll be takin' that slow journey down the Rivers of America on the ol' Mark Twain, enjoying myself and lovin' the memories, the nostalgia, of the good ol' days. I'll be happy...if a tree don't fall on me.
    lol!

  14. #44

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    Quote Originally Posted by orbitalpunk View Post
    So well said. Lets make this into a plaque and mail it to Disney.
    Agreed. This should be their mantra. The old one - "Profits!" - is getting worn out.







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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    It's difficult to write about something so overreaching as nostalgia, as it certainly changes your perspective as you get older, and you really have no choice in the matter.

    There are things I do miss about my younger Disneyland (the late 70s - early 80s), but there have been significant improvements that I can't imagine going and not seeing.
    The old Fantasyland is one example. The theming was boring and looked exactly like what it was, a tacked-on solution to a lack of enough time to complete the park for opening. Saying "things were better back then," doesn't really work for that.
    On Main Street, there have always been sponsors, and simply saying, "oh, Starbucks doesn't fit in with an early American town," doesn't work for me. Neither do tour guides, or parades featuring giant a lit-up dragon.
    As far as Tarzan's Tree house goes, I make my case for relevance as I did when everybody jumped on me. It's a lesser attraction, and that stupid tree in the Adventureland walkway is one of my nemesis...eses. However, ERB has 25 Tarzan books written after the first, in 1912. SFR was written a century earlier, and while I liked the book, it really didn't stick with me and millions of others like the Tarzan Stories did. It's a huge legacy to wave off as insignificant just because the attraction isn't good.

    Disneyland must change over time.

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