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  1. #46

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    Quote Originally Posted by clara View Post
    Maybe I'm wearing the rose colored glasses but...all those descriptions listed aren't they what we see today? I know that Disney is very well known for having all these qualities. Minus some qualities in customer service on the rare occasion (for me anyway). Maybe some won't agree with that but Disney has all those qualities for me and I'm sure a few others.

    And as Pengy said, change is inevitable. Disneyland and the company have to adapt with the times. I don't think that can be helped.

    Clara - Disneyland has all of these qualities to me. I'm of the <30 crowd, though, so I'm admittedly ignorant to the "good ol' days". HOWEVER I love the park for these qualities, not for "thrill rides" and "technology".

    I just hope that people who attend still have an appreciation for what it is, or maybe what it once was depending on where you stand on the issue. I'll never have the same appreciation for parks like Six Flags or Knotts because, to me, they are lacking in the mentioned qualities.

    Thank you to Poisonedapples for my awesome signature!
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  2. #47

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    I'd just like to say, as someone who's been experiencing Disneyland since 2005 (been going since 1999, but can't remember anything before the 50th Anniversary), Disneyland continues to be a source of joy to me, and the people around me. No matter what rides were taken out, or what changes were made, I've been enjoying Disneyland every second I've been in it, and my friends and family have as well. Disneyland will never be like it was yesterday, last month, and especially 30 years ago, it's constantly changing, and I'm a little bit disappointed that people are living in the past.

    New Coke is great, it's just a different taste, and may be off-putting to fans of the old Coke.

    It seems as though, the Coca-Cola Company is attempting to create a new formula; one that appeals to the old time ideals of old Coke, while still entertaining and exciting fans of New Coke.
    Fear of the unknown.

    They are afraid of new ideas.

    They are loaded with prejudices, not based upon any reality, but based on if something is new, I reject it immediately because its frightening to me. What they do instead is just stay with the familiar.
    You know, to me, the most beautiful things in all the universe, are the most mysterious.











  3. #48

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    Quote Originally Posted by Chesire View Post
    I'd just like to say, as someone who's been experiencing Disneyland since 2005 (been going since 1999, but can't remember anything before the 50th Anniversary), Disneyland continues to be a source of joy to me, and the people around me. No matter what rides were taken out, or what changes were made, I've been enjoying Disneyland every second I've been in it, and my friends and family have as well. Disneyland will never be like it was yesterday, last month, and especially 30 years ago, it's constantly changing, and I'm a little bit disappointed that people are living in the past.

    New Coke is great, it's just a different taste, and may be off-putting to fans of the old Coke.

    It seems as though, the Coca-Cola Company is attempting to create a new formula; one that appeals to the old time ideals of old Coke, while still entertaining and exciting fans of New Coke.
    It's not a case of enjoy or not enjoy. I still enjoy Disneyland, but I don't think it's living up to its artistic potential.

    What are you calling New Coke? because it's not what the world knows as New Coke. There are also no ongoing changes to the Coca-Cola formula.

  4. #49

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    Quote Originally Posted by Chesire View Post
    I'd just like to say, as someone who's been experiencing Disneyland since 2005 (been going since 1999, but can't remember anything before the 50th Anniversary), Disneyland continues to be a source of joy to me, and the people around me. No matter what rides were taken out, or what changes were made, I've been enjoying Disneyland every second I've been in it, and my friends and family have as well. Disneyland will never be like it was yesterday, last month, and especially 30 years ago, it's constantly changing, and I'm a little bit disappointed that people are living in the past.
    Thanks for sharing your refreshing perspective.
    Many Bothans died to bring you these fastpasses.

  5. #50

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    Quote Originally Posted by Chesire View Post

    It seems as though, the Coca-Cola Company is attempting to create a new formula; one that appeals to the old time ideals of old Coke, while still entertaining and exciting fans of New Coke.

    Too young for New Coke, whippersnapper!

  6. #51

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    Quote Originally Posted by Chesire View Post
    I'm a little bit disappointed that people are living in the past.
    Hi Ches, I most sincerely do not wish to sound sarcastic or condescending here, but we all live in the past. We all bring our past to every moment in experience and memory of what we've known before. Us old dudes (and dudettes) simply bring a bit more to the table due to our age. Don't be disappointed, you'll find yourself being an old timer soon enough.
    And hey, maybe some day we'll meet at Coke Corner for a tune and a drink and we can discuss both my past, and your future. Maybe even at the Mice Chat 10th anniversary. I'll buy, it'll be my treat.
    First Visit at the age of 12, July 17, 1968.
    First Ride, The Disneyland and Santa Fe Railroad.
    BRING BACK THE PEOPLE MOVER!

  7. #52

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    This thread got me all misted up.

    Most of us old timers have always known, even when we were younger, that Disneyland had changed, in small and large ways, from its previous incarnations, and would always continue to change. We knew this, and yet.....

    When you experience things as a youngster, you often remember some of the small details of that time and place. Although you consciously know that, in time, these things will change, that they'll HAVE to change (because change is the only true constant in the universe), when they finally DO change, it can be pleasant, or it can be jarring. A lot of it all depends on the nature of that change. It might be something fairly ephemeral (the changing of a sponsor, or a slight renaming of the attraction or location, perhaps a menu change), other times it can be much more impactful (the closing of a beloved shop or restaurant, a complete attraction redesign).

    Plus, there's another layer to Disneyland beyond the mere issue of personal individual nostalgia. Since Disneyland is a place for families, even as kids, and certainly more as young adults, we have a small hope in the back of our minds that, one day, we will be able to experience this thing or that thing at Disneyland with our kid(s), and see it through new eyes, making it brand new all over again for us. In this way, we can become our younger selves again, however briefly and fleetingly and vicariously.

    When change happens (particularly major change), we lose that opportunity to share with our own offspring the same thing we enjoyed when we were younger. We don't get to see the same thing we saw as youngsters through our children's new eyes. That's upsetting, especially if we had long hoped to do so for many years. How upsetting it is, of course, depends on the nature of the change, and how important that thing was to us. Sometimes, we can shrug it off with an "oh well." Other times, it can be as if a long-held and cherished dream was suddenly shattered.

    Plus, for some folks, whether as children or as adults, Disneyland may very well be a bright spot, perhaps the only bright spot, in a very painful, sad, or dull life. Because of this, some of us may attach a far greater importance to Disneyland and our happy experience of it in our youth than others would, and major change may cause greater upset for us than it would for others.

    Sometimes, it's just a simple desire to revisit, physically, some place you experienced as a child. It might be Disneyland or a movie theater or a restaurant or some other place. If it's just like we remember, down to the smallest detail, we can, however briefly, be transported back to that earlier, happy time we remember so fondly. And if it's different than we remember, especially if it's drastically different, we don't get the chance to feel like our younger selves again, even for a brief moment. And that can be heartbreaking.

    Sometimes we're just not prepared to process the changes that naturally come with the passing of time. Aging has its joys, but it also has its sorrows as well. And change often comes sooner than we are ready for it. Because of that, some changes aren't just mere annoyances; they can actually hurt.

  8. #53

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    ^^ Very well thought out post Retrocool!
    No worries, stay calm, one question. 
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  9. #54

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    I know for me and my Family, we do not mind Change when it is "Good Change"
    If we sat with a spreadsheet and analyzed the changes at Disneyland over the last number of years, sadly the Bad change would outweigh the good change.

    If you are going to remove or "Plus" a attraction and are going to spend millions of dollars in the process, in my book the change better be deserving of that capital expense.

    Most people who visit the park, do not frequent websites or study the Disneyland past, the only thing they notice are, Geez it now costs me over $100 dollars just to enter, Wow those fireworks were pretty, Darn that food was expensive and greasy, Why are these employees yelling at me on the walkway?

    We here obviously study the park, we love the park, we talk ad nauseum about the park and the history and it's past. Walt's intentions, his ideals, his concepts. To us it is so much more then just a "Park" We hold Disney corp. to a higher set of standards then we hold Six Flags or Cedar Faire to, because we know what the park was and what it has become.

    There has been lots of good things over the years, such as the incredible 1983 Fantasy Land redux, while I am disappointed Skull Rock was not saved, the overall look and feel of Fland was done incredibly well. Sadly the bad does outweigh the good in most of the other Park decisions. I am not against change, I am against bad change.

  10. #55

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    Quote Originally Posted by clara View Post
    Maybe I'm wearing the rose colored glasses but...all those descriptions listed aren't they what we see today? I know that Disney is very well known for having all these qualities. Minus some qualities in customer service on the rare occasion (for me anyway). Maybe some won't agree with that but Disney has all those qualities for me and I'm sure a few others.

    And as Pengy said, change is inevitable. Disneyland and the company have to adapt with the times. I don't think that can be helped.
    I couldn't have said anything that has been said already on this thread better myself. I like the nostalgic, too, but with very few exceptions, I'm not one of those people who rebels against the slightest change. For example, I can take the addition of Jack Sparrow to Pirates of the Caribbean or leave it. Even the Disney additions to Small World don't bother me (now, the Disney songs intertwined into the Small World theme is a little overkill).

    I really don't get those people who think that when it comes to Disneyland, everything must be as pure as the driven snow or else, and how any addition to the park must be original (meaning Disney-invented) or else. For better or worse, Disney (all of Disney, not just Disneyland) is changing. There are other aspects of Disney changing that I'm not particularly happy about (teenyboppers, anyone?), but Disneyland isn't necessarily one of them. Disneyland is always changing, as it was meant to.

    I'm sorry if it seems like I'm attacking the purists, but it just annoys me to think that Disneyland must never be touched. It's just a sensitive issue with me. I'm wondering if those people think that the phrase "Disneyland will never be completed..." has taken on some negative connotations.

    And interesting to slip New Coke into the discussion, too, by the way.
    My top favorite Disneyland attractions:

    1. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
    2. Pirates of the Caribbean
    3. Splash Mountain
    4. Mad Tea Party
    5. Peter Pan's Flight
    6. Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin

  11. #56

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneylandfan85 View Post
    I couldn't have said anything that has been said already on this thread better myself. I like the nostalgic, too, but with very few exceptions, I'm not one of those people who rebels against the slightest change. For example, I can take the addition of Jack Sparrow to Pirates of the Caribbean or leave it. Even the Disney additions to Small World don't bother me (now, the Disney songs intertwined into the Small World theme is a little overkill).

    I really don't get those people who think that when it comes to Disneyland, everything must be as pure as the driven snow or else, and how any addition to the park must be original (meaning Disney-invented) or else. For better or worse, Disney (all of Disney, not just Disneyland) is changing. There are other aspects of Disney changing that I'm not particularly happy about (teenyboppers, anyone?), but Disneyland isn't necessarily one of them. Disneyland is always changing, as it was meant to.

    I'm sorry if it seems like I'm attacking the purists, but it just annoys me to think that Disneyland must never be touched. It's just a sensitive issue with me. I'm wondering if those people think that the phrase "Disneyland will never be completed..." has taken on some negative connotations.

    And interesting to slip New Coke into the discussion, too, by the way.
    Most of us "Purists" don't mind change as long as it makes sense and fits.
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  12. #57

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneylandfan85 View Post
    I couldn't have said anything that has been said already on this thread better myself. I like the nostalgic, too, but with very few exceptions, I'm not one of those people who rebels against the slightest change. For example, I can take the addition of Jack Sparrow to Pirates of the Caribbean or leave it. Even the Disney additions to Small World don't bother me (now, the Disney songs intertwined into the Small World theme is a little overkill).

    I really don't get those people who think that when it comes to Disneyland, everything must be as pure as the driven snow or else, and how any addition to the park must be original (meaning Disney-invented) or else. For better or worse, Disney (all of Disney, not just Disneyland) is changing. There are other aspects of Disney changing that I'm not particularly happy about (teenyboppers, anyone?), but Disneyland isn't necessarily one of them. Disneyland is always changing, as it was meant to.

    I'm sorry if it seems like I'm attacking the purists, but it just annoys me to think that Disneyland must never be touched. It's just a sensitive issue with me. I'm wondering if those people think that the phrase "Disneyland will never be completed..." has taken on some negative connotations.

    And interesting to slip New Coke into the discussion, too, by the way.

    nostalgia is a "feel" the same as toon town has architecture that "feels" like a living toon.

  13. #58

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneylandfan85 View Post
    I'm sorry if it seems like I'm attacking the purists, but it just annoys me to think that Disneyland must never be touched.
    Who says "Disneyland must never be touched?" Those of us who were adult Disneyland fans in the decades before Eisner always looked forward to Disneyland changing. We became used to Disneyland constantly changing for the better. Changes that gave us not only more than we expected, but more than we could imagine. The Viewliner became the Monorail. The Phantom Boats became the Submarine Voyage. Tomorrowland '55 became Tomorrowland '67. Fantasyland '55 became Fantasyland '83. Cam-and-lever figures became Audio Animatronics. The Tiki Room, Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln, Pirates of the Caribbean and Haunted Mansion were mindblowing in their day.

    Year after year, Disneyland was an ever-changing showcase of progress, a place of constant plussing. "Change For The Better" was the standard that Disneyland held itself to. "Change For The Better" was the standard that we expected as kids, teenagers and adults.

    In comparison, much of the change Disney has offered in the last two decades is change for the worse. Tomorrowland '67 became Tomorrowland '98. America Sings became Innoventions. Submarine Voyage thru Liquid Space became the Finding Nemo Underwater Kiddie Video. Swiss Family Treehouse became a Tarzan Disney Store display. Tahitian Terrace became Aladdin's Oasis, which became a ghost restaurant. PeopleMover became Rocket Rods, which became a ghost attraction. The Motorboat Cruise was replaced with... a smoking area. The Skyway was replaced with... nothing. Landmarks like Fort Wilderness and Cascade Peak were allowed literally to rot. Unique, land-specific merchandise was replaced by generic character crap in every store. Year after year, until it became obvious that when Disney made a change, the result would often be worse than what it replaced. Until it became clear that to today's Disney Corporation, "change" is just an excuse for jamming brands, brands and more brands into rides, stores and restaurants, whether they fit or not. Until "upgrade" became a code word for downgrade.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
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  14. #59

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    Beautifully said Mr. Wiggins! I know we have newer members here, but after all these years it amazes me that the accusation of not wanting change still gets trotted out. I just do not understand why this always happens in these discussions. It's never been about change or no change, but the nature of change.

  15. #60

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    Re: Disneyland, nostalgia, change, relevance and New Coke

    Since the end of the Eisner era I would say that the changes have been a mixed bag slightly in favor of being improvements. Keep in mind that in many cases they've also had to deal with serious declines that were/are a legacy of the Eisner period. I think it's much more appropriate to approach any changes today with cautious optimism than with the attitude that any upgrade will turn out to be a downgrade.

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