The Castle Doesn't Fit at the End of Main Street (Yes it Does!)

[Disneymike]

ORDDU: No, DisneyMike, you are quite wrong. The discussion at hand has to do with the castle at the end of Main Street. If you are trying to create an argument out of nothing then you're in the wrong place. So is Calsig31, who is another who loves to argue for the sake of arguing. I find both of your tactics on these boards tiring.

ORWEN: We don't have a problem with the Fantasy Faire princess meet and greet being built next to Sleeping Beauty's Castle, either, as long as someone else brought that topic up. It's a natural fit right next to the castle.

As for the first point, Here is YOUR (whichever personality it is) quote:

But most guests at Disneyland appreciate and agree with Walt Disney's original layout for the park

Those are the Disney fans we prefer to associate with.

FACT-The Princess Fantasy Faire is not and was not part of Walt's original layout for the park. Maybe you should read you own posts before commenting. If you don't like what I or calsig31 have to say, then don't read them. I don't post on these boards for argumentative sake but to have meaningful conversations regarding a place that holds a special place in my heart and not be a Disney apologist.

[Witches of Morva]

ORDDU: The fact of the matter is that you seem to be trying to twist my comments into some sort of convoluted point to support an opposing view you may have. The fact that The Princess Fantasy Faire is being built next to the castle is a separate issue but there's nothing wrong with it. It appears that certain others may have a problem with it but that's got nothing to do with what I had to say. The fact that you said what you said comes across as trying to bait someone into an argument. That sort of thing holds no interest for me or my sisters. So maybe you should avoid responding to our comments if you're tempted to do that again. We're not Disney apologists either. We certainly don't agree with everything the Disney Company does and there are plenty of posts around her to prove that. But the Princess Fantasy Faire being built next to the castle isn't something we disagree with the Company about.

[Disneymike]

ORDDU: The fact of the matter is that you seem to be trying to twist my comments into some sort of convoluted point to support an opposing view you may have. The fact that The Princess Fantasy Faire is being built next to the castle is a separate issue but there's nothing wrong with it. It appears that certain others may have a problem with it but that's got nothing to do with what I had to say. The fact that you said what you said comes across as trying to bait someone into an argument. That sort of thing holds no interest for me or my sisters. So maybe you should avoid responding to our comments if you're tempted to do that again. We're not Disney apologists either. We certainly don't agree with everything the Disney Company does and there are plenty of posts around her to prove that. But the Princess Fantasy Faire being built next to the castle isn't something we disagree with the Company about.

I just asked a question, you could have just said yes or no. I will not comment further.

[Tomorrowland67]

The castle draws you into the park. It's an integral part of the design.

Exactly. The castle is intentionally designed to be different than Main Street, and intentionally positioned to be seen by guests entering the park, to draw them into the hub and into the entrances of each land.

[explodingboy]

ORDDU: If you are trying to create an argument out of nothing then you're in the wrong place. So is Calsig31, who is another who loves to argue for the sake of arguing. I find both of your tactics on these boards tiring.

Off topic for one second..

One thing I think people tend to forget is that this is an open forum. It's meant to discuss certain topics. People are going to land on either side of the fence, and not everyone in every thread is going to agree with said topic. It's what makes this fun! It's almost like people get upset here when others call out their points. Even if it's "for the sake of argument", it's still starting discussion which is the point of this website.

For instance, I was in the "Send the Grand Canyon Diorama to Yesterland" thread pretty heavily, voicing my side of the argument. I had another member in there that would argue almost every one of my points, in which I would argue back. As the thread came to end he thanked me for the great discussion (as did I), and told me that he brought up those points just to be the Devil's advocate - to argue just for the sake of it.

The point is - that is what this is all about. If you feel that certain members are starting to argue with you simply avoid them, or continue the discussion. It's that easy.

[fifthrider]

So, regarding the castle being visible from Main Steet and "ruining the theming" of it...

Does this really keep anyone here up at night?


I'm sorry, I was late to this argument. What was the problem again?

[lazyboy97O]

So, regarding the castle being visible from Main Steet and "ruining the theming" of it...

Does this really keep anyone here up at night?


I'm sorry, I was late to this argument. What was the problem again?

Maybe read the original post? The problem was about Sleeping Beauty Castle being visible from Main Street, USA repeatedly being brought out as a sort of trump card when discussing authenticity, anachronisms and consistency of theme.

[LLCMC]

I think we're arguing the wrong thing here. I believe everyone agrees the castle is appropriate. It is brought up at times as an argument against nitpicking. Sometimes people get overly into whether a theme is 110% accurate to the real life version. If something isn't Frontierish enough for Frontierland, or New Orleans enough for NOS. I think the argument is just for some things that aren't totally disruptive to most people. Basically, if we can suspend disbelief on Main Street (a European castle at the end of an American Main Street), why can't we in other instances? Yes, huge violations of theme are not okay, but some people are more okay with some things than others. Maybe McDonald's french fries didn't belong in Frontierland, for example, if we're being 100% accurate to a real life frontier. But was it a deal breaker? Can we pretend that in THIS VERSION of the frontier, fried potato sticks were served out of a covered wagon? Sure, why not? Just the same way I can pretend that in THIS VERSION of an American Main Street there is a castle in plain view. Yes, comparing a french fry cart to Sleeping Beauty Castle is kind of silly, but that's an example.

Not trying to stir things up with any one, that's just the way I see the "Castle Argument". At the end of the day, different things matter to different people. To some people Starbucks REALLY bothers them, and that's an okay opinion to have. To others, it doesn't. As long as they make it fit the same way Carnation Ice Cream and Coke Corner fit before them I'm okay with it. I can pretend that in this version of a turn-of-the-century Main Street, Starbucks is a turn-of-the-century company that existed at the time as long as it is themed appropriately.

[animagusurreal]

I love the castle being where it is and wouldn't want it any other way. But when people argue about immersive theme and the things that break it, I have to ask why the castle gets a pass in their book. I personally give it a pass because I judge theme and aspects of the park on a case by case basis and for some reason, that castle right there just works so well even if it does technically take you out of turn of the century america. just like the jolly holiday works imo and why I will probably like the MS Starbucks when it comes.

Anyway, I brought up the castle thing in another thread because I wanted to know what the
anti-starbucks people believed was acceptable in pushing of theme and what wasn't. I wanted to see where they stood and what the limits are to theme when they are pushed and I think the castle is great for that sort of exercise. I personally believe the castle adds so much to the park and in no way affects theme in a negative way. My post was merely trying to figure out why others felt the same.

Just wanted to tell you, I wasn't singling your post out . Yours was actually more about everyone having their own perspective on things, but I have seen the "castle argument" used like, "Well, if you're okay with the castle being on the end of Main Street, that's so illogical, you're not allowed to complain about anything else not fitting!" (more on this later)

I agree that we purists sometimes put too much emphasis on theming being "realistic" and "accurate." It's more about the "plausible impossible" as Walt used to say. But I think we may have gotten this way because for a while there, the company didn't seem to care about immersive theming at all.

On Main Street, you're surrounded by enough Main Street that you believe you're on Main Street, even though you can see the castle in the distance. Whereas in Sunshine Plaza in DCA 1.0 - you're entering a postcard, you're walking under the Golden Gate Bridge, you're in a train station, you're in a big open plaza with a big huge metal sun, there's a studio gate, there's a painted backdrop of a farm - WHERE ARE WE!?

My problem was with the castle being used as an example of a "plot hole" so to speak, (in some cases a "forgivable" plot hole) when I feel like it's a plot point - THE plot point, in fact. The linchpin that holds the whole thing together.

I completely agree with all of your post, but I especially love this point here. Beautifully said. The image of the castle at the end of Main Street, beckoning you to come, explore, and dream, is pure poetry.

Thanks!

And thank you to everyone else who commented as well .

[fifthrider]

Maybe read the original post? The problem was about Sleeping Beauty Castle being visible from Main Street, USA repeatedly being brought out as a sort of trump card when discussing authenticity, anachronisms and consistency of theme.

You, sir, are new to sarcasm. All posts were read. The point here is pointless.

[Quentin]

I can understand both sides of this argument. However I think people use the castle as an example of how something being visible from main street wont ruin the theme of main street. And I agree with that, the castle doesn't fit the theme of a turn of the century Main Street USA, neither does the big Swiss mountain. But it fits in nicely, the matterhorn and the castle don't ruin anything.

[lazyboy97O]

You, sir, are new to sarcasm. All posts were read. The point here is pointless.

Is discussing the content of a scene in a great film pointless? If Disneyland is pointless than we are all quite ill for spending so much time and money on something pointless.

I can understand both sides of this argument. However I think people use the castle as an example of how something being visible from main street wont ruin the theme of main street. And I agree with that, the castle doesn't fit the theme of a turn of the century Main Street USA, neither does the big Swiss mountain. But it fits in nicely, the matterhorn and the castle don't ruin anything.

But the power Sleeping Beauty Castle can be diminished if its special place as an anachronism is watered down.

[Quentin]

But the power Sleeping Beauty Castle can be diminished if its special place as an anachronism is watered down.

​I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

[lazyboy97O]

​I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

Sleeping Beauty Castle sticks out not only because it is located at the end of the promenade that is Main Street, USA but also because it is an anachronism. It does not have the size and presence of a Cinderella Castle or Le Château de la Belle au Bois Dormant. It is smaller, more subtle in its presence upon Main Street, USA, but it is different. But what happens when it is no longer different? No longer unique? When more and more experiences could be interchanged between Fantasyland and Main Street, USA with not more than a change in wrapper, then what makes Sleeping Beauty Castle special? It is no longer something unique in content, experience and meaning, just image. What made Disneyland special was that it was more than just images slapped on the same, otherwise generic experience.

[animagusurreal]

Sleeping Beauty Castle sticks out not only because it is located at the end of the promenade that is Main Street, USA but also because it is an anachronism. It does not have the size and presence of a Cinderella Castle or Le Château de la Belle au Bois Dormant. It is smaller, more subtle in its presence upon Main Street, USA, but it is different. But what happens when it is no longer different? No longer unique? When more and more experiences could be interchanged between Fantasyland and Main Street, USA with not more than a change in wrapper, then what makes Sleeping Beauty Castle special? It is no longer something unique in content, experience and meaning, just image. What made Disneyland special was that it was more than just images slapped on the same, otherwise generic experience.

I agree with everything you say regarding the castle being an anachronism by design, and that making it stand out (the "by design" being the big difference between this, and some other anachronisms this has been used as an example against). I also agree with the bit about wrappers not making things fit, when the actual content inside the building has nothing to do with the theme. But I thought I should mention that my original post had nothing to do with the Princess Fantasy Faire and actually I'm not really sure where they're putting it, or whether it will be visible from Main Street. (If it was somehow as visible as Sleeping Beauty Castle, then I agree with you).