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  1. #16

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    Re: Indiana Jones question

    That sounded like a good effect. I vote for Bruce to get in there and help!

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  2. #17

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    Re: Indiana Jones question

    Quote Originally Posted by mratigan View Post
    is there a pov with the effect working????????????
    I think there might be a video or two floating around on YouTube but it was a very short lived effect.

  3. #18

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    Re: Indiana Jones question

    Quote Originally Posted by castmember88 View Post
    Who's your source? Because none of that is the reason for it's failure. The ice would collect at the release point, but would melt together into huge clumps. That caused it to jam the hatch that was supposed to open to release the ice.

    Usually I watch these conversations from a distance..... but stop acting like you know how things work all the time. You've got good hunches, but rarely are they correct. I ask that you cease to pass off your information as correct answers. Thanks.
    That was a little snippy not to mention uncalled for.

    Also, Bruce remains technically right even based on your own words. He said it didn't melt fast enough. you said it would melt together into huge clumps so,... It still didn't melt fast enough, right?

  4. #19

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    Re: Indiana Jones question

    Gee, CastMember88, hair-trigger anger much? I make a living figuring things like that out and either preventing problems or retrofitting as needed. Of COURSE I have to speculate about the inner workings of that Black Box when I've never seen inside it, but when I know what it does (and what it's supposed to do, which is sometimes totally different...) I can guess at the contents. And I'm pretty careful to label things as Speculation or Educated Guess.

    And when I get a chance to stick my head into that Black Box later I'm usually pretty darned close. Some people say uncomfortably close - usually the ones who are in charge of keeping it running who for some reason either won't or can't...

    First, it's really helpful to be able to observe the system operating as installed and see what's not working. There were days when Bob Gurr dissected broken Autopia cars and laid down in the pit underneath the Teacups platform and had them run it to see it run from underneath, what flexed and moved and was likely to break next...

    That was when he discovered the secret of Huck-Bolted Frames on the Autopia cars and flex joints on the Teacups platform - and it's the same with any industrial gear. If it's got large masses in motion, or impact loads, you have to absorb that motion and allow the frame to flex or it will break. So you make a place (or several places) on the machine where it can flex safely to absorb that energy in a controlled manner.

    We can't observe the Indy ice-drop mechanism because they already pulled it out. I considered that kind of problem with the main hopper too, but since nobody's mentioned it in the past I didn't want to go too far afield with speculation. But now that you say it was a problem, it can be dealt with...

    It would be easy enough to rebuild the bin to put a screw augur in the bottom (at attic height, under the ice machines on the roof) both to move the ice from the back two Ice Machines toward the drop hopper mechanism and to break up any clumps that might freeze and form. You need an example, go look at the dispenser on a Through-The-Door Ice home refrigerator and scale it up - Your drinking glass is where you put the Hopper and the Effects Drop.

    And it's most likely to clump when the bin is full and the ride is E-Stopped or shut down for the night - Just like the ice in your refrigerator's storage bin does when you don't use any for a day or two. So you add a timer and run the augur IN REVERSE just to stir the ice for 10 seconds every 15 minutes just to keep it from clumping on you.

    Industry has long since perfected hopper drop chutes that are reliable and don't freeze up, how do you think they build machinery to bag potato chips, frozen peas and Bagged Ice for retail sale? Luckily you don't need a precisely weighed amount for each drop, so one hopper hatch will do - but you /do/ have to run this all in a low-humidity freezer atmosphere to minimize free water that would refreeze in the wrong places (it Always Knows!) and gum up the works.

    Might have to add insulated walls and a few evaporator fan coils on one side, turn the Ice Hopper and Drop Mechanism room into a little Walk-In Freezer. Won't have a lot of latent heat to get rid of, so 12,000 BTUH (1 Ton) would be overkill, the mechanism motors are the only real heat source - but activity will spike whenever a Tech goes in there to work on it at ~1000 BTUH each working up a sweat, ~600 BTUH each at rest.

    And if it still has problem spots, you install a little spot-heater, a sheet of Teflon or UHMW Polyethylene lining the chute to keep it from sticking, or strategically place a Shaker Motor to thump the side of the bin right there. A built in kick.

    --<< Bruce >>--

    PS: Bruce L. Bergman, Lead Electrician - Westend Electric, 5737 Kanan Rd. PMB 359, Agoura CA 91301 - CA Contractors License C-10 #726700. We usually do Condominium Common-Area and Light Commercial repair and maintenance, but I'll tackle about any problem you can hand me.

    PPS: Juuuuuuust in case you thought I was feeding you a line of Bull.

    PPPS: Oh, and 3 jobs ago was Hunt Air & Heating, and I was the only one out of the 6 employees (and the Owner) who bothered to go get their Refrigerant Technician License when they started that whole mess. And I got out of there when I realized who would be getting the $10,000 Minimum EPA fine if anyone buying their refrigerant under my license # messed up - Me.
    Last edited by Bruce Bergman; 12-18-2012 at 12:23 PM. Reason: Better add the Bona-Fides at the end...
    There's No Place Like 127.0.0.1

  5. #20

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    Re: Indiana Jones question

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Bergman View Post
    Gee, CastMember88, hair-trigger anger much? I make a living figuring things like that out and either preventing problems or retrofitting as needed. Of COURSE I have to speculate about the inner workings of that Black Box when I've never seen inside it, but when I know what it does (and what it's supposed to do, which is sometimes totally different...) I can guess at the contents. And I'm pretty careful to label things as Speculation or Educated Guess.

    And when I get a chance to stick my head into that Black Box later I'm usually pretty darned close. Some people say uncomfortably close - usually the ones who are in charge of keeping it running who for some reason either won't or can't...

    First, it's really helpful to be able to observe the system operating as installed and see what's not working. There were days when Bob Gurr dissected broken Autopia cars and laid down in the pit underneath the Teacups platform and had them run it to see it run from underneath, what flexed and moved and was likely to break next...

    That was when he discovered the secret of Huck-Bolted Frames on the Autopia cars and flex joints on the Teacups platform - and it's the same with any industrial gear. If it's got large masses in motion, or impact loads, you have to absorb that motion and allow the frame to flex or it will break. So you make a place (or several places) on the machine where it can flex safely to absorb that energy in a controlled manner.

    We can't observe the Indy ice-drop mechanism because they already pulled it out. I considered that kind of problem with the main hopper too, but since nobody's mentioned it in the past I didn't want to go too far afield with speculation. But now that you say it was a problem, it can be dealt with...

    It would be easy enough to rebuild the bin to put a screw augur in the bottom (at attic height, under the ice machines on the roof) both to move the ice from the back two Ice Machines toward the drop hopper mechanism and to break up any clumps that might freeze and form. You need an example, go look at the dispenser on a Through-The-Door Ice home refrigerator and scale it up - Your drinking glass is where you put the Hopper and the Effects Drop.

    And it's most likely to clump when the bin is full and the ride is E-Stopped or shut down for the night - Just like the ice in your refrigerator's storage bin does when you don't use any for a day or two. So you add a timer and run the augur IN REVERSE just to stir the ice for 10 seconds every 15 minutes just to keep it from clumping on you.

    Industry has long since perfected hopper drop chutes that are reliable and don't freeze up, how do you think they build machinery to bag potato chips, frozen peas and Bagged Ice for retail sale? Luckily you don't need a precisely weighed amount for each drop, so one hopper hatch will do - but you /do/ have to run this all in a low-humidity freezer atmosphere to minimize free water that would refreeze in the wrong places (it Always Knows!) and gum up the works.

    Might have to add insulated walls and a few evaporator fan coils on one side, turn the Ice Hopper and Drop Mechanism room into a little Walk-In Freezer. Won't have a lot of latent heat to get rid of, so 12,000 BTUH (1 Ton) would be overkill, the mechanism motors are the only real heat source - but activity will spike whenever a Tech goes in there to work on it at ~1000 BTUH each working up a sweat, ~600 BTUH each at rest.

    And if it still has problem spots, you install a little spot-heater, a sheet of Teflon or UHMW Polyethylene lining the chute to keep it from sticking, or strategically place a Shaker Motor to thump the side of the bin right there. A built in kick.

    --<< Bruce >>--

    PS: Bruce L. Bergman, Lead Electrician - Westend Electric, 5737 Kanan Rd. PMB 359, Agoura CA 91301 - CA Contractors License C-10 #726700. We usually do Condominium Common-Area and Light Commercial repair and maintenance, but I'll tackle about any problem you can hand me.

    PPS: Juuuuuuust in case you thought I was feeding you a line of Bull.

    PPPS: Oh, and 3 jobs ago was Hunt Air & Heating, and I was the only one out of the 6 employees (and the Owner) who bothered to go get their Refrigerant Technician License when they started that whole mess. And I got out of there when I realized who would be getting the $10,000 Minimum EPA fine if anyone buying their refrigerant under my license # messed up - Me.
    Last edited by explodingboy; 12-18-2012 at 12:53 PM.

  6. #21

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    Re: Indiana Jones question

    Thanks everybody for the help much appreciated. now lets find a video of it lol


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  7. #22

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    Re: Indiana Jones question

    Quote Originally Posted by castmember88 View Post

    Usually I watch these conversations from a distance..... but stop acting like you know how things work all the time. You've got good hunches, but rarely are they correct. I ask that you cease to pass off your information as correct answers. Thanks.
    Maybe you should keep watching from a distance. that was rude.


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  8. #23

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    Re: Indiana Jones question

    Name:  fallingrock0-1.jpg
Views: 174
Size:  57.1 KB

    DISNEYLAND ENTRANCE TO INDIANA JONES RIDE 5/25/96 - YouTube

    "Stole" this image from a post on a different thread awhile back. Too lazy to find it and link it.
    Favorite Ride: Tower of Terror

  9. #24

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    Re: Indiana Jones question

    Quote Originally Posted by MrsMonroe View Post
    Thanks everybody for the help much appreciated. now lets find a video of it lol
    DISNEYLAND ENTRANCE TO INDIANA JONES RIDE 5/25/96 - YouTube

    Around 10:53 in the video
    Favorite Ride: Tower of Terror

  10. #25

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    Re: Indiana Jones question

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Bergman View Post
    Gee, CastMember88, hair-trigger anger much? I make a living figuring things like that out and either preventing problems or retrofitting as needed. Of COURSE I have to speculate about the inner workings of that Black Box when I've never seen inside it, but when I know what it does (and what it's supposed to do, which is sometimes totally different...) I can guess at the contents. And I'm pretty careful to label things as Speculation or Educated Guess.

    And when I get a chance to stick my head into that Black Box later I'm usually pretty darned close. Some people say uncomfortably close - usually the ones who are in charge of keeping it running who for some reason either won't or can't...

    First, it's really helpful to be able to observe the system operating as installed and see what's not working. There were days when Bob Gurr dissected broken Autopia cars and laid down in the pit underneath the Teacups platform and had them run it to see it run from underneath, what flexed and moved and was likely to break next...

    That was when he discovered the secret of Huck-Bolted Frames on the Autopia cars and flex joints on the Teacups platform - and it's the same with any industrial gear. If it's got large masses in motion, or impact loads, you have to absorb that motion and allow the frame to flex or it will break. So you make a place (or several places) on the machine where it can flex safely to absorb that energy in a controlled manner.

    We can't observe the Indy ice-drop mechanism because they already pulled it out. I considered that kind of problem with the main hopper too, but since nobody's mentioned it in the past I didn't want to go too far afield with speculation. But now that you say it was a problem, it can be dealt with...

    It would be easy enough to rebuild the bin to put a screw augur in the bottom (at attic height, under the ice machines on the roof) both to move the ice from the back two Ice Machines toward the drop hopper mechanism and to break up any clumps that might freeze and form. You need an example, go look at the dispenser on a Through-The-Door Ice home refrigerator and scale it up - Your drinking glass is where you put the Hopper and the Effects Drop.

    And it's most likely to clump when the bin is full and the ride is E-Stopped or shut down for the night - Just like the ice in your refrigerator's storage bin does when you don't use any for a day or two. So you add a timer and run the augur IN REVERSE just to stir the ice for 10 seconds every 15 minutes just to keep it from clumping on you.

    Industry has long since perfected hopper drop chutes that are reliable and don't freeze up, how do you think they build machinery to bag potato chips, frozen peas and Bagged Ice for retail sale? Luckily you don't need a precisely weighed amount for each drop, so one hopper hatch will do - but you /do/ have to run this all in a low-humidity freezer atmosphere to minimize free water that would refreeze in the wrong places (it Always Knows!) and gum up the works.

    Might have to add insulated walls and a few evaporator fan coils on one side, turn the Ice Hopper and Drop Mechanism room into a little Walk-In Freezer. Won't have a lot of latent heat to get rid of, so 12,000 BTUH (1 Ton) would be overkill, the mechanism motors are the only real heat source - but activity will spike whenever a Tech goes in there to work on it at ~1000 BTUH each working up a sweat, ~600 BTUH each at rest.

    And if it still has problem spots, you install a little spot-heater, a sheet of Teflon or UHMW Polyethylene lining the chute to keep it from sticking, or strategically place a Shaker Motor to thump the side of the bin right there. A built in kick.

    --<< Bruce >>--

    PS: Bruce L. Bergman, Lead Electrician - Westend Electric, 5737 Kanan Rd. PMB 359, Agoura CA 91301 - CA Contractors License C-10 #726700. We usually do Condominium Common-Area and Light Commercial repair and maintenance, but I'll tackle about any problem you can hand me.

    PPS: Juuuuuuust in case you thought I was feeding you a line of Bull.

    PPPS: Oh, and 3 jobs ago was Hunt Air & Heating, and I was the only one out of the 6 employees (and the Owner) who bothered to go get their Refrigerant Technician License when they started that whole mess. And I got out of there when I realized who would be getting the $10,000 Minimum EPA fine if anyone buying their refrigerant under my license # messed up - Me.
    very interesting! you learn something everyday!
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  11. #26

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    Re: Indiana Jones question

    If you were looking for a great POV.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz_onGQnsz0

  12. #27

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    Re: Indiana Jones question

    Quote Originally Posted by Arocker18 View Post
    If you were looking for a great POV.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz_onGQnsz0
    But if this footage is from 2012 it won't have the Ice Drop "Rock Fall" feature in it - that was only working properly for maybe the first six to nine months, roughly all of 1995.

    Far as I know, they didn't really try to repair it since, and eventually removed the ice machines from the roof and gave up.

    --<< Bruce >>--
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  13. #28

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    Re: Indiana Jones question

    I was on tbe ride yesterday and saw where it would have been had it worked so i feel accomplished


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  14. #29

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    Re: Indiana Jones question

    maybe castmember88 was the original designer and got offended when someone picked his work apart? Or was he the guy who closed it due to it being too technical to fix?

    Bruce, I like your thinking - sometimes the outside perspective is needed.

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