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Thread: Pirate Exchange

  1. #16

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    Re: Pirate Exchange

    Quote Originally Posted by biggsworth View Post
    Nope my wish is to remove Jack because he is forced into the ride and I think they ruined the attraction.
    I think saying the ride is ruined is a bit much. I prefer the "old" POTC, but I still enjoy the ride and do not think it is ruined. It is still one of the best rides in the park.

  2. #17

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    Re: Pirate Exchange

    I don't mind a LITTLE Captain Jack Sparrow, but they've overdone it to a ridiculous amount.

  3. #18

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    Re: Pirate Exchange

    Quote Originally Posted by MrsMonroe View Post
    Mr. Wiggins, why are you so negative on anything new at Disneyland?
    I've written numerous posts on how I feel about Eisger's "new Disneyland" and the ridiculous "you just don't want Disneyland to change/you want Disneyland to remain a museum" label that keeps getting slapped on anyone who criticizes it. The following post perhaps summarizes it best:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Who says "Disneyland must never be touched?" Those of us who were adult Disneyland fans in the decades before Eisger always looked forward to Disneyland changing. We became used to Disneyland constantly changing for the better. Changes that gave us not only more than we expected, but more than we could imagine. The Viewliner became the Monorail. The Phantom Boats became the Submarine Voyage. Tomorrowland '55 became Tomorrowland '67. Fantasyland '55 became Fantasyland '83. Cam-and-lever figures became Audio Animatronics. The Tiki Room, Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln, Pirates of the Caribbean and Haunted Mansion were mindblowing in their day.

    Year after year, Disneyland was an ever-changing showcase of progress, a place of constant plussing. "Change For The Better" was the standard that Disneyland held itself to. "Change For The Better" was the standard that we expected as kids, teenagers and adults.

    In comparison, much of the change Disney has offered in the last two decades is change for the worse. Tomorrowland '67 became Tomorrowland '98. America Sings became Innoventions. Submarine Voyage thru Liquid Space became the Finding Nemo Underwater Kiddie Video. Swiss Family Treehouse became a Tarzan Disney Store display. Tahitian Terrace became Aladdin's Oasis, which became a ghost restaurant. PeopleMover became Rocket Rods, which became a ghost attraction. The Motorboat Cruise was replaced with... a smoking area. The Skyway was replaced with... nothing. Landmarks like Fort Wilderness and Cascade Peak were allowed literally to rot. Unique, land-specific merchandise was replaced by generic character crap in every store. Year after year, until it became obvious that when Disney made a change, the result would often be worse than what it replaced. Until it became clear that to today's Disney Corporation, "change" is just an excuse for jamming brands, brands and more brands into rides, stores and restaurants, whether they fit or not. Until "upgrade" became a code word for downgrade.

    This post says it even better:

    Quote Originally Posted by gatheringrosebuds View Post
    We don't want an exact recreation of the Disneyland of the past. We want a Disneyland that reflects the levels of style, imagination, creativity, story, artistry, character, sophistication, and immersiveness of the past.
    To that list I'd only add two words: "Customer Service."

    Gatheringrosebuds' post should be on a billboard where every Disneyland employee and their beancounting bosses can see it every day.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 12-21-2012 at 06:19 PM.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  4. #19

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    Re: Pirate Exchange

    Department of Redundancy Department







    I am Sambo, and I endorse this signature.

  5. #20

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    Re: Pirate Exchange

    Quote Originally Posted by Sambo View Post
    Department of Redundancy Department
    You can say that again!


  6. #21

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    Re: Pirate Exchange

    Quote Originally Posted by MrsMonroe View Post
    Mr. Wiggins, why are you so negative on anything new at Disneyland?
    I think at the end of the day people are just going to have their opinion and we just need to respect it even if we don`t agree.

    And to paraphrase Jack himself: (another ride) is a bit superfluous don't you think?

    I also feel that we will never see a Jack-less ride. The POTC paradigm has changed and changing it would be like trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

  7. #22

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    Re: Pirate Exchange

    Quote Originally Posted by oddball View Post
    Barbosa replaced an unknown captain
    Wow, this generation has never heard of Blackbeard? What a shame.



  8. #23

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    Re: Pirate Exchange

    Quote Originally Posted by TiggerHappy View Post
    Wow, this generation has never heard of Blackbeard? What a shame.
    Of course they have. He was the villain that the writers created with for the fourth Pirates movie. The one that is currently shown on the mist screen.
    Last edited by calsig31; 12-22-2012 at 06:07 AM.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  9. #24

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    Re: Pirate Exchange

    Well, we should be glad at least POTC is not 80% to 100% changed. It's more of a 45% change if you ask me.

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  10. #25

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    Re: Pirate Exchange

    If you want to remove all advertisements for brand franchises of Disneyland, might as well bulldoze Fantasyland. While you're at it, Indiana Jones, Splash Mountain, Star Tours, and the works. In fact, bulldoze ALL of Disneyland because it is one big advertisement for the Disney Corp anyways.
    Sarcasm folks. Hope it came through.
    But personally for me, I am totally fine with it. Sparrow or no Sparrow, Disneyland is still Disneyland in my heart.



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  11. #26

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    Re: Pirate Exchange

    Quote Originally Posted by Bongo View Post
    If you want to remove all advertisements for brand franchises of Disneyland, might as well bulldoze Fantasyland. While you're at it, Indiana Jones, Splash Mountain, Star Tours, and the works. In fact, bulldoze ALL of Disneyland because it is one big advertisement for the Disney Corp anyways.
    Nobody said anything about removing all advertisements for brand franchises from Disneyland. Check out my earlier posts from this thread here:

    Pirate Exchange

    And here:

    Pirate Exchange

    I think they do a fairly good job of explaining most people's position on characters on rides.

    As for bulldozing Fantasyland, that would be ridiculous. The land was created as a place where people could walk into the experiences from the movies that they love.

    They idea is to create a balance between character rides and original attractions and to not take a ride that was an original idea, and has operated successfully as such for a number of years, and forcibly adding in characters to the point that it diminishes the quality of that attraction with their intrusion into a once cohesive story.
    Last edited by calsig31; 12-22-2012 at 06:52 AM.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  12. #27

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    Re: Pirate Exchange

    Quote Originally Posted by TiggerHappy View Post
    Wow, this generation has never heard of Blackbeard? What a shame.
    The captain of the Wicked Wench was never "Blackbeard." He was a fictional--and therefore "unknown"--pirate.

  13. #28

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    Re: Pirate Exchange

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bongo View Post
    If you want to remove all advertisements for brand franchises of Disneyland, might as well bulldoze Fantasyland. While you're at it, Indiana Jones, Splash Mountain, Star Tours, and the works. In fact, bulldoze ALL of Disneyland because it is one big advertisement for the Disney Corp anyways.
    Nobody said anything about removing all advertisements for brand franchises from Disneyland. Check out my earlier posts from this thread here:

    Pirate Exchange

    And here:

    Pirate Exchange

    I think they do a fairly good job of explaining most people's position on characters on rides.

    As for bulldozing Fantasyland, that would be ridiculous. The land was created as a place where people could walk into the experiences from the movies that they love.

    They idea is to create a balance between character rides and original attractions and to not take a ride that was an original idea, and has operated successfully as such for a number of years, and forcibly adding in characters to the point that it diminishes the quality of that attraction with their intrusion into a once cohesive story.
    Exactly right. The number of posts calling for balance between brand and non-brand attractions is too many to count, and still the bogus label is slapped on posters of "You just want to remove all brand franchises from Disneyland" (and its equally bogus corollary, "Even Walt used the park for marketing").


    More examples of the call for balance:

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister
    I don't think anyone's trying to make a case for movie tie-ins being bad. It's balance we want, and when Disneyland itself (as opposed to the whole resort) currently lacks any original attractions less than 40 years old, balance is not what we're getting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins
    It has never been argued that brand-based rides are bad in and of themselves. The argument is that the balance between brand-based and original rides has been lost.

    The fact that Walt Disney used his own popular characters in Disneyland rides has never been an issue. The historical fact is that brand-based rides in the pre-Eisner era were in the vast minority compared to original rides. Again, the issue is balance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins
    ...nobody's saying "Walt would never use the parks for marketing;" obviously he did. Using Disneyland to market Disney characters is not a "new thing," but now it's the only thing -- and not "lately," it's been happening as an Only Thing for decades.

    In the years before Eisner, there was a balance of character brand rides (Pete Pan, Alice, Toad, Snow White, Swiss family Treehouse) and "original in Disneyland" rides (POTC, HM, Autopia, SF&DL RR, Mark Twain, Small World, Carousel of Progress, Space Mountain, People Mover, Adventure thru Inner Space, Submarines, etc.). With Eisner & Iger, it's all brand marketing, all the time. The difference is that with Walt, Disneyland was the brand. Its mix of attractions was aimed at all age groups. With Eisner & Iger, Disneyland is a marketing platform for whatever brand (toons mostly, and lifestyle brands especially) that Disney is currently hyping, primarily to the youth and kiddie demographics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins
    I'd really like to see Disney give these movie franchise-based attractions a rest, and restore the balance between marketeering and true imagineering. Carsland... Avatarland... it's all the same idea as Universal Studio's "Ride the Movies," which was ripped off by Michael Eisner when he redefined Disneyland as "all about turning movies into rides." Where's the innovation and creativity that brought us Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion and so many other Disneyland originals?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins
    I would like to see no more character-based attractions brought in until a balance is restored between character-based and original attractions. For years they've been turning Disneyland into a marketing-mall-with-rides that push franchise brand toons. Enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins
    Disneyland became a world-wide phenomenon for its creative and innovative use of themed land storytelling, with a balance of original attractions and movie-based attractions -- a fact that is irrelevant to the Marketeers running the place today.
    Quote Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon
    we want balance...an ALL movie made park would be worse then one that allows both ideas to follow freely
    Quote Originally Posted by Diznygrl
    For me, it's not that I hate Pixar or anything. I love Pixar movies. It's just that Disney is relying WAY too heavily on the popularity of Pixar to carry their attractions instead of doing what they used to be good at and creating completely original things that are not based off an existing franchise, like Haunted Mansion or Space Mountain. The balance of movie to non-movie attractions is being thrown way off these days because they've become too afraid to take a risk on something that doesn't have a character's face slapped on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by animagusurreal
    ...The other concern is the erosion of originaltiy at DL. The park also had original attractions from day one (e.g., Flight to the Moon, Mark Twain Steamboat) and in the 60's and 70's, the majority of the additions to the park were original/non-movie based (e.g., Tiki Room, Pirates, HM). Nobody is arguing movie based rides are bad, but a balance makes the park feel more like it's own entity, and less like a dumping ground for the company's franchises.
    Quote Originally Posted by RegionsBeyond
    ...Some attractions crop up or replace other solely because there is a modern film to tie it to, regardless of end quality or enjoyment factor for all guests or if the movie story fits a brand new attraction, is well adaptable to the theme park medium. This seems to happen more rapidly sadly, even at the same time as they make undeniably good enhancements and changes that I love. The balance can tip, and it might already be doing so. I hope the day doesn't come when even the fact of the high quality of the experience, ambiance, and detail can't hide the fact the only purpose of Disneyland is to support the sale of DVD's or to bolster theatrical grosses at the expense of attraction quality or artistic coherence/thematic design....
    Quote Originally Posted by sbk1234
    ...I'd also like to see some balance, rather than EVERYTHING being a movie tie-in. Some of each would be nice....
    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin
    I don't mind Pixar characters in DL or DCA, I just don't want to see Toy Story in Frontierland with woody and jessie, and in Fantasyland in small world and in Tomorrowland with Buzz L's Astro Blasters, and in Paradise Pier with Midway Mania, and in the Pixar Play parade, and in the Christmas Parade and ugggg, in the Hyperion theater, too! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, Balance is the key!...
    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin
    Some Pixar in the parks is ok, BUT overload is not good. The balance is too much pixar at this point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seawolf
    I absolutely agree there needs to be a balance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister
    I don't think anyone's suggesting that Disney parks should consist entirely of original material and never draw on any Disney franchises. Some people are simply concerned that there hasn't been a proper balance of original and non-original projects lately, a sentiment I can definitely relate to. But then again, I also understand that if you're just looking at the bottom line, it could be pretty tempting to pick the least risky approach.
    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31
    The thing that was successful from the beginning was the balance between character and original rides. Disneyland must be made up of both, but there has to be a balance. That is what made Disneyland so successful and what must be restored.

    Unfortunately, "balance" and "originality" are words that Disney management has thrown away -- words that once were the operating model for Disneyland. They've been replaced by the word "brand," as today's management continues to follow Michael Eisner's dictum that "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 12-22-2012 at 12:44 PM.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  14. #29

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    Re: Pirate Exchange

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Exactly right. The number of posts calling for balance between brand and non-brand attractions is too many to count, but still the bogus label is slapped on posters of "you just want to remove all brand franchises from Disneyland" (and its equally bogus corollary, "Even Walt used the parks for marketing").


    More examples of the call for balance:




    Unfortunately, "balance" and "originality" are words that Disney management has thrown away -- words that once were the operating model for Disneyland. They've been replaced by the word "brand," as today's management continues to follow Michael Eisner's dictum that "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
    Excellently played.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  15. #30

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    Re: Pirate Exchange

    ^ Excellent post Mr. Wiggins! Sums up my feelings about the high saturation of franchises and characters in the parks. Characters and franchises are an important part of the park, but they can only bring a certain level of depth. Originality is vital to Disneyland, but it's slowly slipping through the cracks and disappearing into the past. The balance needs to be restored.

    Quote Originally Posted by oddball View Post
    The movie was based off of the ride, so why is it so bad that you have spot appearances by Barbosa and Jack in the ride. Barbosa replaced an unknown captain and what exactly did Jack replace? Not much maybe a pirate in the barrel. It's so minimal that it's laughable that anyone complains about it.
    Jack "replaced" the original spirit of the attraction. He replaced originality with yet another movie tie-in. He replaced the story of a treasure hunt with a confusing, nonsensical Jack Sparrow hunt. He changed the entire feel of the ride with his appearances.

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