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  1. #61

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    Quote Originally Posted by JMazz View Post
    Oy.
    I haven't missed a thing. SW goes from a small and cut-out A-ticket to a full-on E-ticket. The footprint of said A-ticket is a great place for the M&G based on foot traffic. Now all the kids can have facetime w/ characters and everyone gets a great new E-ticket.
    M&G plus SW new ride = 2 attractions
    Did you want Old SW and New SW plus a M&G?
    Better it should be WDW's Snow White to close than Disneyland's. The ironic thing is that when WDW was built, the Imagineers initially did not want ANY Disneyland dark rides duplicated at WDW; they wanted them themed to other Disney movies instead, while trying to maintain the moods of the first movies. In the case of Snow White, they wanted to do a ride themed to Sleeping Beauty. But then Roy O. Disney, Walt's brother who was heading the project, insisted that they remain true to Walt's original Disneyland thinking and replicate Peter Pan, Mr. Toad and Snow White. They did, however, make sure that the dark rides themselves were not exactly the same as in California.

    Looks like the people in Florida are getting their wish of no duplications of preexisting Disneyland dark rides after all. The only one still there is Peter Pan.
    My top favorite Disneyland attractions:

    1. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
    2. Pirates of the Caribbean
    3. Splash Mountain
    4. Mad Tea Party
    5. Peter Pan's Flight
    6. Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin

  2. #62

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    Quote Originally Posted by JMazz View Post
    Oy.
    I haven't missed a thing. SW goes from a small and cut-out A-ticket to a full-on E-ticket. The footprint of said A-ticket is a great place for the M&G based on foot traffic. Now all the kids can have facetime w/ characters and everyone gets a great new E-ticket.
    M&G plus SW new ride = 2 attractions
    Did you want Old SW and New SW plus a M&G?
    You have missed my point. The 7 Dwarfs coaster is irrelevant. The Magic Kingdom has ample room for a meet and greet. It didn't have to replace Snow White.

  3. #63

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    In brief, they think that I have no respect for Disneyland nostalgia.
    I'm pretty sure that people who don't agree that everything needs to be changed don't think that those who do have no respect for nostalgia.

  4. #64

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    Quote Originally Posted by ssaamm View Post
    You have missed my point. The 7 Dwarfs coaster is irrelevant. The Magic Kingdom has ample room for a meet and greet. It didn't have to replace Snow White.
    If Snow White wasn't meeting it's guest quota, then it would have closed regardless of where the Meet and Greet ended up. Sometimes attractions just hit a point where their ridership doesn't justify keeping them open (maint and operation costs versus turnstile counts).

  5. #65

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneylandfan85 View Post
    Better it should be WDW's Snow White to close than Disneyland's. The ironic thing is that when WDW was built, the Imagineers initially did not want ANY Disneyland dark rides duplicated at WDW; they wanted them themed to other Disney movies instead, while trying to maintain the moods of the first movies. In the case of Snow White, they wanted to do a ride themed to Sleeping Beauty. But then Roy O. Disney, Walt's brother who was heading the project, insisted that they remain true to Walt's original Disneyland thinking and replicate Peter Pan, Mr. Toad and Snow White. They did, however, make sure that the dark rides themselves were not exactly the same as in California.

    Looks like the people in Florida are getting their wish of no duplications of preexisting Disneyland dark rides after all. The only one still there is Peter Pan.
    Actually, all the dark rides in Disney World are still copies of Disney World rides (Little Mermaid and Pooh). Although, of course, Pooh was technically copied to Disneyland, and the Magic Kingdom version is superior. Whatever.

  6. #66

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    If Snow White wasn't meeting it's guest quota, then it would have closed regardless of where the Meet and Greet ended up. Sometimes attractions just hit a point where their ridership doesn't justify keeping them open (maint and operation costs versus turnstile counts).
    And it could have been closed and replaced with another attraction. For me a meet and greet will never justify a closure of an attraction, no matter how unpopular it is. I would count myself as a fan of meeting characters too.

  7. #67

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    If Snow White wasn't meeting it's guest quota, then it would have closed regardless of where the Meet and Greet ended up. Sometimes attractions just hit a point where their ridership doesn't justify keeping them open (maint and operation costs versus turnstile counts).
    I could see that to a certain degree but if the replacement lacks the public appeal then the shelf life is greatly decreased and the money potentially "wasted". Rocket Rods was the most glaring example but Pooh, Buzz, and Nemo all have fairly short waits for relatively new attractions.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  8. #68

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    If Snow White wasn't meeting it's guest quota, then it would have closed regardless of where the Meet and Greet ended up. Sometimes attractions just hit a point where their ridership doesn't justify keeping them open (maint and operation costs versus turnstile counts).
    I'll just quote MrLiver since this was where I was going with this.
    Additionallllly... This M&G is located in such a high traffic area that often gets over crowded (but not like at DL). I figured this would be a great place to "pen" the masses and soak them up based on what I have read.

    I do understand that some ppl are upset about the old SW ride being torn out, but I do think that [overall] WDW did the right thing and that the M&G is now well placed (or will be). The iconic SW now gets her proper attraction. I don't see it as a replacement so much as a massive plussing for her.
    ~Jay

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  9. #69

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    I'm pretty sure 99% of people would agree with his statement. The alternative would be that yes it always has to be just about nostalgia. The bigger question is what the balance should be. Snow White is probably the most nostalgic attraction to be removed during his tenure, but on the other hand, most accounts credit him with pushing for the mine train ride. The area where the mine train ride is being built had originally been set aside for character meet and greets (I believe for Aurora and Cinderella).

  10. #70

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    Quote Originally Posted by MactheMan View Post
    Actually, all the dark rides in Disney World are still copies of Disney World rides (Little Mermaid and Pooh). Although, of course, Pooh was technically copied to Disneyland, and the Magic Kingdom version is superior. Whatever.
    I meant from the original dark ride lineup of 1971.
    My top favorite Disneyland attractions:

    1. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
    2. Pirates of the Caribbean
    3. Splash Mountain
    4. Mad Tea Party
    5. Peter Pan's Flight
    6. Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin

  11. #71

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    Quote Originally Posted by ssaamm View Post
    Mostly, but taking out a ride for a meet and greet I do not agree with
    This.


    You also have to be willing to accept that sometimes the elimination of something will not give you enough space to something grandiose that is new - and not every new attraction is great.

    You also need to acknowledge that Disneyland fans are different from Walt Disney World fans. Disneyland fans are more emotionally tied to the park's history...and we've also had bad memories of attractions getting shuttered, promised bigger and better, and not had Disney deliver.

    If Tom Staggs thinks that replacing the 20,000 Leagues lagoon with a landfill and a Winnie the Pooh playground was an upgrade, I personally think he's deluded. But that's just my honest opinion


    As for what the members of this forum think of you, I wouldn't take it so much to heart dearie. People say all sorts of nonsense that they'd never have to guts to say to someone's face because it is the internet. But if you feel that someone is personally attacking you, we do have a process for that here

  12. #72

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    I never got to go on MK's Snow White but it would be kinda weird to have 2 Snow White rides next to each other

    Go visit my theme park website!!! http://kolbykonnection.com


  13. #73

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    I think there has to be a balance. For adults, who remember the old Disney movies as well as Disneyland from when they were kids, the nostalgia is really important.

    For today's kids, those old dark rides must be looking pretty uninspiring compared with, say, RSR (and even I'd much rather go on RSR than Snow White!)


    There's so much nostalgia in Disney parks anyway, with the horse drawn carriages, the old vehicles, the riverboats, the awesome older rides like POTC, IASW, the HM, the old fashioned shops, etc etc, I personally don't mind much if they replace the dated dark rides with new, better rides.

    Bring on the mine coaster!

  14. #74

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    I guess he's right. Excuse me while I get some paint and update the Mona Lisa. I think shorter hair, sunglasses and some fake eyelashes would do wonders for her, and it would attract younger art critics. And the Blue Boy? Some baggy pants and a backwards baseball hat would make him look a lot more trendy. Of course, that would be changing him from the 1970's Brady Bunch look from his last refurbishment...

  15. #75

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    It can't just be about nostalgia but it can't just be about doing things cheap because "its good enough" like they did with new Fantasyland. Replacing 20,000 Leagues Under the sea e-ticket with a clone of Little Mermaid and a new restuarant and adding an extra dumbo spinner is not good enough especially when your competitor is building wonders like Wizarding World of harry Potter and even Disney in CA is building new bold projects like Cars Land.

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