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  1. #91

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    So maybe your arguments arent so 'comprehensive or eloquent' after all, if the casual reader, or even non casual reader comes off as 'they want the Park to be a museum"
    I see it more as a way to avoid the trickier and deeper intellectual discussion about the subject; "casual readers" only have to reach into their bag of tricks and whip out the old chestnuts like "You want Disneyland to be a museum!" without having to tackle the far meatier implications and substance of our arguments.

    But that's just me.

  2. #92

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    I see it more as a way to avoid the trickier and deeper intellectual discussion about the subject; "casual readers" only have to reach into their bag of tricks and whip out the old chestnuts like "You want Disneyland to be a museum!" without having to tackle the far meatier implications and substance of our arguments.

    But that's just me.
    As opposed to the "Our argument is intellectually and morally superior, and we're going to dismiss yours as ignorance because we don't agree with it, because its beneath us"

    That's perfectly ok right?
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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  3. #93

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    As opposed to the "Our argument is intellectually and morally superior, and we're going to dismiss yours as ignorance because we don't agree with it, because its beneath us"
    It's pretty easy to dismiss arguments that don't address the subjects presented. So when Wiggins makes brand arguments or I make theme arguments that are more than one paragraph long, and all we get back in retort is "You're just nostalgic and want Disneyland to be a museum!!" it does in fact appear to be intellectual laziness. Do you disagree?

  4. #94

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    It's pretty easy to dismiss arguments that don't address the subjects presented. So when Wiggins makes brand arguments or I make theme arguments that are more than one paragraph long, and all we get back in retort is "You're just nostalgic and want Disneyland to be a museum!!" it does in fact appear to be intellectual laziness. Do you disagree?
    Regardless of how well written or long-winded your arguments may be, if the content of the argument boils down to, even if read in its entirety is what those you claim to be 'lazy' actually is; does one need to make an equally long winded and well written retort to it, if one line can summarize whats basically being said?

    Regardless of how an argument is hidden within text or embellished with text, its still the same basic simple argument.

    So I disagree, believe it or not, there are those who read the entire text and still all they get from it is "They want it to be a museum", its not intellectual laziness; its a failed argument that always produces the same response to it.

    Though this mostly applies to you Steve, you have well written posts even if I mainly disagree with a lot of them. And I have actually learned things I didnt know from them at times. But if someone doesn't need a long drawn out post to get the point across, its not 'intelectually lazy' to post a simple reply.
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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  5. #95

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    Size of post matters not.

    Judge this post by its size do you?
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  6. #96

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    Simple request from "purists": if you're going to replace something, replace it with something BETTER than what was there before.

    That's all any of us really want. That is something we should all agree on.

    Now, if Disney management cannot imagine something better, well, then, as Walt implies in one of his famous quotes, Disneyland is completed.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  7. #97

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    Simple request from "purists": if you're going to replace something, replace it with something BETTER than what was there before.

    That's all any of us really want. That is something we should all agree on.

    Now, if Disney management cannot imagine something better, well, then, as Walt implies in one of his famous quotes, Disneyland is completed.
    Reasonable post I agree with.

    Though the definition of BETTER differs from person to person.

    I like CJB better, my GF likes Winnie the Pooh better. Go figure.
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  8. #98

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    Dude, dump that girl! Red flags all around!!
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  9. #99

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    Dude, dump that girl! Red flags all around!!
    Lol thats the only time I think I've heard that. I think I can forgive her for liking Winnie the Pooh though.
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  10. #100

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    Does she make you ride it? Or is it like some tunnel of love (or ATIS for us old folks)for you two?
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  11. #101

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    Does she make you ride it? Or is it like some tunnel of love (or ATIS for us old folks)for you two?
    Thought all the cool kids used Haunted Mansion for that

    But its more of a trade-off, Ill go on that if she'll go on Mr Toad.
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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  12. #102

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    They were both good for romancing.
    Compromise is good for a relationship. Good luck to you two!
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  13. #103

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    I also think Walt Disney had a different idea for nostalgia than we do. Main Street represents not a singular movie but his childhood. Replacing an entire land isn't something he hoped to ever do.

    And he has replaced many attractions but because they were placeholders for something better. Key word: BETTER.

    I don't think he would let character meet & greet take over a ride. He'd find ways of making the ride better if nobody was going on it... OR, he'd replace it with a better ride. It's about plussing rather than doing what would be more "cost-effective". He also didn't care which movie was more represented in Fantasyland either it seems since Alice in Wonderland and Dumbo got more attractions than the rest.


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  14. #104

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    Of course, there's probably other factors at play and maybe Snow White in Florida has just overstayed its welcome. I just don't know.
    Most of what can be said or argued about the Snow White ride in Florida also applies to the one in California. I would think most would agree it has one of the shortest waits in the park. Even shorter than most Meet n Greets.

    I think I'm going to have to go with option 3 on your list. It's not necessarily that it is too old fashioned, but in a park full of E tickets, why would you waste your time?

  15. #105

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    Re: Tom Staggs Says -- "It Can't Just Be About Nostalgia"

    I am all for Mr. Staggs' statement and wholeheartedly approve of Disney's "Great Leap Forward" IF it was being done well. Yes remove the old and antiquated attractions that thrive only due to nostalgia BUT don't replace them with substandard current era tie ins that won't be remembered a few years after their release (See Tarzan's Tree House). If you are going to do progress then do progress well, otherwise keep the old attractions in house until you can figure out what Disney's Evolution actually is.

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