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  1. #61

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by aashee View Post
    This is a good point. However APers are just more vocal about overcrowding because they go all the time. When a family of 4 from across the US comes on their once a year vacation, they often experience such long waits for not just good rides but also food. They endure consistant break downs and difficulties seeing parades or shows, but you don't hear them on MiceChat. They tell friends in their area and it eventually creates a feeling like "what are my other vacation options?".

    Disney has created the standard of the apex of family entertainment. It's their job to uphold that because in my mind and many other's, it's eroding.
    Everything you're saying points to a lack of ride capacity, rather than a lack of quality per se, unless you advocate that they close the gates to new admits at DCA/DL every day at noon. Ride capacity is even much worse of a problem at WDW, btw.

    Look at RSR in Carsland, the Fast Pass line stretched to Hollywood Blvd last time I was there, and they ran out of fast passes.

    Is this really the eroding of quality family entertainment, or is it just overcrowding because most everybody loves what they did with Carsland?

    At any rate, I think we'll see the Main Street alley project, and more importantly, the massive Frontierland expansion fast tracked at some point just so the resort can handle all of the guests.

    Long lines are a pain, but in essence we're blaming Disney for being popular. So, yes, the secret is out, Carsland is awesome, and BVS is nice too, and everybody wants to see them.

  2. #62

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    I think this is due in large part to John Lasseter's commitment to quality. Carsland is a major hit, and as Al Lutz mentioned, guests are even more bullish about re-experiencing Carsland when compared to the ratings Indy got when it opened. I have a tendency to head to Carsland when arriving at the resort, more than just "placemaking" it feels like a really special place, and the rides are a lot of fun, even Luigi's if just for the novelty. Carsland could become one of those "legacy" areas of Disneyland that folks come to see time and time again just because it feels special.
    John Lasseter is without a doubt the most overrated person in the entire Walt Disney Company. Even more overrated than Staggs and George K.

    Perhaps people forget that he is suppose to make movies not parks. Yet everytime he buts his heads in the park we get infinite Pixar attractions in areas they don't fit. The greatest attractions have had no ties to Lasseter. Since Lasseter has been on board, we've gotten Nemo, Crush's Coaster Carsland, Midway Mania, more Buzz Lightyear's and more Pixar everywhere.

    But at the end of the day, he demonstrated a lack of competence in creating theme parks rather than just turning movies into rides. Heck, he hasn't even been making the greatest movies recently.

    There isn't one thing about Lasseter that gives me hope for the WDC to change its ways. In fact, I think he's a driving force in going that "Materialize the movies" direction.

  3. #63

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by aashee View Post
    This is a good point. However APers are just more vocal about overcrowding because they go all the time.
    I believe that is the definition of irony.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  4. #64

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Everything you're saying points to a lack of ride capacity, rather than a lack of quality per se, unless you advocate that they close the gates to new admits at DCA/DL every day at noon. Ride capacity is even much worse of a problem at WDW, btw.

    Look at RSR in Carsland, the Fast Pass line stretched to Hollywood Blvd last time I was there, and they ran out of fast passes.

    Is this really the eroding of quality family entertainment, or is it just overcrowding because most everybody loves what they did with Carsland?

    At any rate, I think we'll see the Main Street alley project, and more importantly, the massive Frontierland expansion fast tracked at some point just so the resort can handle all of the guests.

    Long lines are a pain, but in essence we're blaming Disney for being popular. So, yes, the secret is out, Carsland is awesome, and BVS is nice too, and everybody wants to see them.
    I endure the crowds at Carsland because it's new and fresh and vibrant. I loathe the crowds in Tomorrowland at night because it's stale and tired. I guess at Disney the "cool crowd" is one you tolerate because of quality.

  5. #65

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    While obviously a small subset of fans, you would think this trend would be of some concern to Disney...
    Probably acceptable losses in their mind. I think they're aware of the crowding problem and the loss of a couple AP's is probably better for them in the long run because it might mean more single or multi day tickets.

    It seems they're finally starting to realize what a monster they did create with the AP program.
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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  6. #66

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by aashee View Post
    I endure the crowds at Carsland because it's new and fresh and vibrant. I loathe the crowds in Tomorrowland at night because it's stale and tired. I guess at Disney the "cool crowd" is one you tolerate because of quality.
    That is historically the pattern of wait-time tolerance. People waited over an hour for Indy/Splash/Space when they were new. (I recall a three-hour wait time for the just-opened "The Beast" at my grad night in King's Island. I skipped it.)

    It isn't that "things are better now that the wait times are lower (because of FastPass)." A lot of people simply won't wait in long lines for something they've experienced 50+ times. Heck, even Monsters, Inc had a "long" wait time when it opened. People still wait for that? I know I won't. I don't even wait in that long line of GRR to get drenched on a hot day. My sons and I go in the singles queue. How's the line for Nemo these days?
    Point is, everyone has a maximum wait-time limit in their heads for each attraction. Each time you exerience an attraction, your wait-time tolerance should drop (on average).
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  7. #67

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post
    John Lasseter is without a doubt the most overrated person in the entire Walt Disney Company. Perhaps people forget that he is suppose to make movies not parks.
    Walt Disney also made movies and not parks, at first. Seemed to work out ok, no?

  8. #68

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    That is historically the pattern of wait-time tolerance. People waited over an hour for Indy/Splash/Space when they were new. (I recall a three-hour wait time for the just-opened "The Beast" at my grad night in King's Island. I skipped it.)

    It isn't that "things are better now that the wait times are lower (because of FastPass)." A lot of people simply won't wait in long lines for something they've experienced 50+ times. Heck, even Monsters, Inc had a "long" wait time when it opened. People still wait for that? I know I won't. I don't even wait in that long line of GRR to get drenched on a hot day. My sons and I go in the singles queue. How's the line for Nemo these days?
    Point is, everyone has a maximum wait-time limit in their heads for each attraction. Each time you exerience an attraction, your wait-time tolerance should drop (on average).
    So darn true. I fall right into that because now I have no problem going to the park and riding absolutely nothing.

  9. #69

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Why are the parks so packed? I doubt it has much to do with APers. If those who are obviously against AP passes here got their way and APs disappeared, it doesn't mean the park would thin out. It would still be packed but now by all the non-AP people.

    Honestly, there's some posters here who are vehemently against the idea of an AP to such a degree that it feels personal. Did an APer shoot their dog when they were a child or something? What's their horse in this race? Why so passionate on the hate for APers?
    Your first, your last, your only defense against the scum of the ethereal plane.

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  10. #70

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    My family lost our passes about...two or three years ago, I'm not sure exactly when. The main problem with having one was the amount of times we went, usually on a Sunday after church. It was, "oh, boy, let's go to Disneyland pretty much for free," the first month or two. But then, things seemed to change a bit. We had seen practically everything. We had been there for every night we had off. We had been there for who knows what reason. It was beginning to get a bit crazy. By the time summer had started, we found that the magic was kind of gone.

    Main Street began showing some neglect in areas not visible to the once-a-year guest. I began to point out little details in rides that shouldn't be seen by riders. Something seemed off. This wasn't the Disneyland that I grew up with. As a 90's kid, I grew up in an awesome Disneyland with just about everything my young heart could desire. But then DCA came in and everything changed. I'm not going to blame DCA, but it was around 2001 that things took a bizarre turn for what I think I'm going to consider the worst. I understand completely where you're coming from. Even Universal Studios Hollywood seems to have a bit more magic than Disneyland used to have for me.
    Theatrical Roles: Various Roles (The Laramie Project), Fred (Oklahoma!), Oberon (Shakespeare in Hollywood), Hero (A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum), Valere (The Miser), Moonface Martin (Anything Goes), Thenardier/Laborer/Army Officer/Ensemble (Les Miserables), Franz (The Sound of Music), Tobias Ragg (Sweeney Todd), Tinman (The Wiz), Elles Dad/Winthrop/Ensemble (Legally Blonde), William Barfee/Leaf's Dad/Jesus Christ (25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee), Fiddler on the Roof (Rabbi), The Adventures of Tom Sawyer (Muff Potter/Ensemble), Shrek the Musical (Lord Farquaad)

  11. #71

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by orbitalpunk View Post
    Walt Disney also made movies and not parks, at first. Seemed to work out ok, no?
    Haha, took the words right out of my mouth, orbitalpunk.

    Arguably, one of the major reasons Imagineering/WED was so successful at creating immersive environments in the early days of Disneyland was that they were movie-makers applying their knowledge to another medium, the theme park. Likewise, one of the criticisms of Imagineering in its current state is that it is composed of theme park people, not movie people.

  12. #72

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post
    I think my issue with current Disneyland, and I feel its shared with the "older" minds (not to say any/everyone with this perspective is old), is that Disneyland no longer captures the imagination but instead just materializes the movies.
    There is a lot of imagination in some of the movies. Plus, it is not such an easy thing to turn Cars the movie into Cars the land. That takes even more imagination. So, frankly, I don't see what is wrong with materializing/re-imagining the movies.

  13. #73

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post
    But at the end of the day, he demonstrated a lack of competence in creating theme parks rather than just turning movies into rides. Heck, he hasn't even been making the greatest movies recently.
    While I agree that Pixar movies have seemed to lack something as of late, I will argue that it has more to do with the loss of storyboard artist/head of story Joe Ranft. According to Lasseter, Ranft was the one who took those good ideas and gave them heart and made them work better on screen.

    As for turning movies into rides, I agree that it should be more than that. Some of the best rides weren't based on movies, and we all know it. But isn't it also true that none of these new rides (Racers, Tires, Junkyard, Midway) mindlessly re-tell the story of the movie? Midway was about making the pay-for-play boardwalk games accessible and "winnable" for all, and in the course of doing so, Pixar characters were applied to theme-appropriate games.

    Yes, the town of Radiator Springs has been recreated, but the rides are not simple voyages through the narrative of the movie, like say, Snow White's Scary Adventures. Even Racers, which contains story elements of the movie, makes it explicit that you (or your car) are the star of the ride. You are not simply observing Lightning arriving at Radiator Springs, meeting Mater, getting in trouble with the court, repaving the road, etc. Rather, you are the one viewing the waterfall for the first time, arriving in Radiator Springs, tractor-tipping, and getting ready for a race. Therefore, I argue that he and the rest of the team have done a good, creative job of "turning movies into rides." Of course, a non-movie attraction would really help at this point!

    The one exception of course being the disappointing Nemo....Although technically not a recreation of the movie, the same plot point is used (oh no, Nemo is lost again). Had they been more creative in recreating Nemo's world with story-telling, the tv screen element may have been more forgivable. At any rate, I'd like to think they've learned from those mistakes.
    Last edited by The First Star; 01-03-2013 at 12:23 PM. Reason: Remembered the submarines. Had been trying not to think about them lol

  14. #74

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Great thread.

    I don't think I'm getting over "Disney", I'm kind of over "Disneyland". After having AP's for the last 15 years we won't be renewing. Yes the price is a LOT, but in past years we would have made it a priority to budget for our Disney passes. This year we aren't.

    Our kids are getting older, my wife is no longer able to ride many of the rides due to back problems, it's 90 miles 1-way, hotels are expensive. food prices have skyrocketed while quality has (for the most part) not improved.

    It's just time. I'm not going to say we'll never have AP's again but there are SO many other things we'd like to do. It's always been easy for the last 15 years to have most of our weekends revolve around Disney. I'm kind of excited to start doing other things.

    And for the first time since I started running 3 years ago, I also won't be doing any Disney races as they've also gotten a little crazy expensive.


  15. #75

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by DL714 View Post
    There is a lot of imagination in some of the movies. Plus, it is not such an easy thing to turn Cars the movie into Cars the land. That takes even more imagination. So, frankly, I don't see what is wrong with materializing/re-imagining the movies.
    Me neither. I don't know why most fans think that Disney parks and Disney movies must remain as far away from each other at all costs.
    My top favorite Disneyland attractions:

    1. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
    2. Pirates of the Caribbean
    3. Splash Mountain
    4. Mad Tea Party
    5. Peter Pan's Flight
    6. Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin

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