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  1. #91

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Are we talking about the same John Lasseter who risked his career by going into computer animation, and by butting heads with Disney repeatedly in the early years?
    Yet now Pixar's animation is nearly undistinguishable from that of Dreamworks, Blue Sky Entertainment or Illuminations? And he's forcing CGI into WDAS.

    Besides, he may have once been a risk taker in movies, but he was never one in the parks. Nothing, and literally not a single project he has been involved in has been a risk. Carsland was a calculated success. There was simply no possibility that a land built on a proven franchise using proven technology would ever fail. Lasseter may be a risk taker in the movie industry, but he was never one in the parks.

  2. #92

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post
    Yet now Pixar's animation is nearly undistinguishable from that of Dreamworks, Blue Sky Entertainment or Illuminations? And he's forcing CGI into WDAS.

    Besides, he may have once been a risk taker in movies, but he was never one in the parks. Nothing, and literally not a single project he has been involved in has been a risk. Carsland was a calculated success. There was simply no possibility that a land built on a proven franchise using proven technology would ever fail. Lasseter may be a risk taker in the movie industry, but he was never one in the parks.
    +1 to everything above.

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    I'm not sure if you noticed Wiggins, but Carsland is a gigantic success, and rivals some of Disneyland's best lands, such as NOS and Frontierland. Lasseter also pulled a lot of strings to get funding for Carsland, had the project failed it would have cost him influence at the company. Lasseter has taken a lot of risks during his career, and they've all paid off so people tend to forget that they were risks in the first place.
    Obviously I'm in the minority, I recognize that the majority of members (and DLR visitors) will disagree with me here, but I feel like Cars Land, despite all the good that it does, still screams "franchise!" and shoves the Disney/Pixar brand in your face, assuming that you come to Disneyland because you want to "ride the movies"-- and I just can’t overlook that. I will agree that the quality is definitely there-- and that the land was a step in the right direction. The attention to detail was really lovely (there are so many clever and engaging touches throughout the land), the attractions were more engaging experiences that offered actual immersion rather than completely passive experiences, the beautiful sight of the rockwork is absolutely breathtaking (the skyline is my absolute favorite part of the entire land). It definitely features several key elements crucial to the philosophy of Disneyland that need to be embraced and remembered and I'm so happy for the high quality levels that were brought back into the parks with the creation of Cars Land and thankful for whoever it was that made this happen. But we're still not there yet-- I still don't think that it's an exemplary land. I didn't leave feeling inspired or awe-struck or with a burning desire to return. Despite the high quality, I felt like the "magic" was missing. That touch of originality, that stroke of genius, that bold sense of risk and passion-- I just didn't feel it. Like Rave said, it felt like a "calculated success."
    Last edited by gatheringrosebuds; 01-03-2013 at 11:56 PM. Reason: correcting a very silly spelling error

  3. #93

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by gatheringrosebuds View Post

    Obviously I'm in the minority,

    . . .

    I didn't leave feeling inspired or awe-struck or with a burning desire to return. Despite the high quality, I felt like the "magic" was missing. That touch of originality, that stroke of genius, that bold sense of risk and passion-- I just didn't feel it. Like Rave said, it felt like a "calculated success."
    Everybody's entitled to their opinion, but most (93%?) want to return to Carsland, even more than when guests experienced Indy for the first time. I actually feel that Carsland, Radiator Springs to be specific, feels 100% like a real place. Flo's is one of my favorite places to eat in the resort, and I feel like I'm coming home every time I have the opportunity to spend some time there.

    I didn't see Cars in the theatre, and saw snippets of it and thought it was an unoriginal film with generic cartoon cars with eyes in their windshields. Why were kids watching this phony movie with their eyes glued to the screen? (I had seen prior Pixar films and loved most of them, but felt Cars was just generic.)

    Then I watched the DVD and really feel in love with Radiator Springs and the characters. I gotta say that Lasseter and Co. did a great job, and they added Stanley's Oasis to the mix, and I do get that sense of "magic" when I'm in Carsland. Same feeling in NOS, Frontierland, Main Street. I gotta say I smiled wide when I saw the firetruck creeping down the street. It's just little touches like that that make you feel like your some place special and I really forget the outside world when I'm inside of Radiator Springs.

    I think for this project, Lasseter and Co. had to completely replicate Radiator Springs, with artistic license, for it to work. I hope they expand the land by adding another ride some day, but it is already a very special place to me and many guests. And I think it is because it is so welcoming, so I guess from that perspective I don't feel that anything is crammed down my throat, I'm a willing participant!

  4. #94

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    I'm not sure what "repeatedly been shown" means as we're all just sort of expressing our own opinions. The diehard fans may well have a different take on the matter when compared to the average park guest, and I don't think all diehards, or even a majority of diehards, have a problem with the current franchise saturation level in the park.

    I don't see many APers tossing rotten vegetables at the Jo-Ho's sign and faux chaulk drawings because it uses Mary Poppins, instead of being a generic type restaurant.

    In the end, its kind of abstract to draw a line between franchise and non-franchise attractions. Rides becomes movies, movies become rides, and rides not specifically based on a movie borrow heavily from them, i.e. Jungle Cruise/African Queen, Main Street USA/So Dear to My Heart . . . A future franchised ride might become "unbranded" if most guests don't recall the film. What if Toy Story Mania is still going in 50 years, and the ultra high level trivia question is "did you know what movie Toy Story Mania was actually based off of?"

    Carsland is fun even if you don't know about the film, as far as I can tell.

    Space Mountain may be made into a film, they may go back and add references to the film . . . is this somehow diluting the "purity" of the ride?!? I don't think so, often times rides in Disneyland didn't have a strong theme (film tie in), because vault Disney was smaller back then, and it was quicker to add generic stuff.

    I want to see how big of a firestorm there will be when the Jungle Cruise movie comes out, if it becomes a big hit they might consider putting in a Tom Hanks animatronic or something like that. I say do it!, if the film becomes a well-loved blockbuster.
    And if the Disneyland/Magic Kingdom movie becomes a big hit Disney can replace the Partners statue with one of Jon Favreau.....
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  5. #95

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post
    Yet now Pixar's animation is nearly undistinguishable from that of Dreamworks, Blue Sky Entertainment or Illuminations? And he's forcing CGI into WDAS.

    Besides, he may have once been a risk taker in movies, but he was never one in the parks. Nothing, and literally not a single project he has been involved in has been a risk. Carsland was a calculated success. There was simply no possibility that a land built on a proven franchise using proven technology would ever fail. Lasseter may be a risk taker in the movie industry, but he was never one in the parks.
    Not sure what a "calculated success" is, I am assuming you mean a predetermined success. Well, Carsland is a big success in part because Lasseter decided to go with Radiator Springs. I can't see the earlier version having the same heart.

    Also, I think the "risk" that Lasseter took was not in building Carsland, per se, as he probably had a good idea it would be a success, but rather that he forcefully put his foot down when it came time to cut stuff in Carsland. This is always a risk in a work environment, (taking a controversial position and in essence biting the hand that feeds you to a certain extent), and it could have damaged his reputation. This would mean less input in future projects.

    Now . . . did the bean counters also think it would be a big success? I think it was Iger or Staggs or somebody in the upper brass who said that Carsland was a bigger success than even they imagined.

  6. #96

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    I disagree that Cars Land was that much of a calculated or predetermined success. If it was then they clearly would have planned better as far as crowd control and wait times go.

    It is quite obviously a far bigger success than anticipated.

  7. #97

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    I'm not sure if you noticed Wiggins, but Carsland is a gigantic success...
    It most certainly is -- if ticket sales is all that one values. You're preaching to the beancounter choir: no-risk, short-term financial success via brand marketing is Disney's definition of success for its parks.


    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Not sure what a "calculated success" is...
    It's what Eisger's Disney Company does in imitation of what Walt's Disney Company used to do.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  8. #98

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Mr. Wiggins, with much respect to you, because I have followed your posts and clearly you have a deeper understanding of the corporation than I do. But.

    Don't you see how Cars Land is also an artistic success. I am personally not a huge fan of the namesake movies myself, but I would say that the land is quite well done in terms of artistic expression and attention to detail. Do you really try believe that their only motive was ticket sales?

  9. #99

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by Mom kissed Walt View Post
    Do you really try believe that their only motive was ticket sales?
    Not ticket sales: the humongous success of Cars brand toy sales to the boy demographic, and Disney's determination to dominate that market segment as they do the girl demographic with Princesses, were the reasons Carsland was greenlit.

    There is no denying the artistry of the rockwork and the other surface details. There is also no denying that the corporate soul of the project was and is brand marketing, pure and simple.



    Quote Originally Posted by gatheringrosebuds View Post
    ...I feel like Cars Land, despite all the good that it does, still screams "franchise!" and shoves the Disney/Pixar brand in your face, assuming that you come to Disneyland because you want to "ride the movies"-- and I just can’t overlook that....

    ...Despite the high quality, I felt like the "magic" was missing. That touch of originality, that stroke of genius, that bold sense of risk and passion-- I just didn't feel it. Like Rave said, it felt like a "calculated success."
    Once again you've eloquently hit the nail on the head!
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 01-03-2013 at 10:51 PM.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  10. #100

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Not ticket sales: the humongous success of Cars brand toy sales to the boy demographic, and Disney's determination to dominate that market segment as they do the girl demographic with Princesses, were the reasons Carsland was greenlit.

    There is no denying the artistry of the rockwork and the other surface details. There is also no denying that the corporate soul of the project was and is brand marketing, pure and simple.
    Perhaps you are right about toy sales. In fact I'm sure you are except I would add that I'm sure they are more than happy to sell the toys to girls as well, and it does in fact do well with the girl demographic in ways princess movies clearly don't with boys.

    So if Cars Land is nothing more than a toy shop money grab, what is BVS?

    (To be clear I do not mean to come across as being snotty, I'm just genuinely interested in what you and similar minded folks think about how that was handled, or better yet, why?)

    I feel that if profits were the only motive, they would not have invested so much into BVS which was built in honor of Walt and that golden age so many posters say the current management could care less about.

  11. #101

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by Mom kissed Walt View Post
    I feel that if profits were the only motive, they would not have invested so much into BVS which was built in honor of Walt and that golden age so many posters say the current management could care less about.
    I appreciate your posts and do hear what your saying. The Disney Corporation doesn't spend money building theme park lands to honor anyone; profits are, in fact, its only motive. To Disney Corp, "Walt Disney" is a brand. His likeness and mythology are marketed as a brand, by a corporation that has no affinity to or understanding of his life, ideals, methods, showmanship values and talents. Honor does not enter into it.

    That doesn't mean Disney Corp is evil, or that BVS was poorly executed. It does mean that Disney Corp, which is in the business of acquiring and marketing media brands, is marketing Walt as a branded product -- while at the same time rejecting, in its creative choices, business priorities and theme park operations, everything Walt stood for.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  12. #102

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by gatheringrosebuds View Post
    Obviously I'm in the minority, I recognize that the majority of members (and DLR visitors) will disagree with me here, but I feel like Cars Land, despite all the good that it does, still screams "franchise!" and shoves the Disney/Pixar brand in your face, assuming that you come to Disneyland because you want to "ride the movies"-- and I just can’t overlook that. I will agree that the quality is definitely there-- and that the land was a step in the right direction. The attention to detail was really lovely (there are so many clever and engaging touches throughout the land), the attractions were more engaging experiences that offered actual immersion rather than completely passive experiences, the beautiful sight of the rockwork is absolutely breathtaking (the skyline is my absolute favorite part of the entire land). It definitely features several key elements crucial to the philosophy of Disneyland that need to be embraced and remembered and I'm so happy for the high quality levels that were brought back into the parks with the creation of Cars Land and thankful for whoever it was that made this happen. But we're still not there yet-- I still don't think that it's an exemplary land. I didn't leave feeling inspired or awe-struck or with a burning desire to return. Despite the high quality, I felt like the "magic" was missing. That touch of originality, that stroke of genius, that bold sense of risk and passion-- I just didn't feel it. Like Rave said, it felt like a "calculated success."
    I have similar feelings. Carsland just left me feeling cold. I haven't actually returned to see it since the first and only time I did on June 28th, despite having visited the resort several times since then. I just have no desire to... there's nothing I want to do there and the atmosphere isn't particularly pleasant to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Everybody's entitled to their opinion, but most (93%?) want to return to Carsland, even more than when guests experienced Indy for the first time.
    I do wonder a bit if that 93% would still be so eager to return if it weren't for annual passes and monthly payment plans.

  13. #103

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by OliviaVonDrake View Post
    I have similar feelings. Carsland just left me feeling cold. I haven't actually returned to see it since the first and only time I did on June 28th, despite having visited the resort several times since then. I just have no desire to... there's nothing I want to do there and the atmosphere isn't particularly pleasant to me.



    I do wonder a bit if that 93% would still be so eager to return if it weren't for annual passes and monthly payment plans.
    I have similar feelings toward Carsland. I do like RSR and the mountain range but the rest just feels, I dunno, small? Luigi's is a lousy attraction IMO, Mater's is a dressed up carnival ride, way too many shops, Flo's is neither good nor bad-just meh. My plan of attack when going to DCA is get on RSR and get out of Carsland.
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  14. #104

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post
    Yet now Pixar's animation is nearly undistinguishable from that of Dreamworks, Blue Sky Entertainment or Illuminations? And he's forcing CGI into WDAS.

    Besides, he may have once been a risk taker in movies, but he was never one in the parks. Nothing, and literally not a single project he has been involved in has been a risk. Carsland was a calculated success. There was simply no possibility that a land built on a proven franchise using proven technology would ever fail. Lasseter may be a risk taker in the movie industry, but he was never one in the parks.
    You mean like Nemo? or its a bugs life? It is easy to look at a project after the fact and say it was guaranteed to be successful. But the reality is execution is never guaranteed.

  15. #105

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by Mom kissed Walt View Post
    Mr. Wiggins, with much respect to you, because I have followed your posts and clearly you have a deeper understanding of the corporation than I do. But.

    Don't you see how Cars Land is also an artistic success. I am personally not a huge fan of the namesake movies myself, but I would say that the land is quite well done in terms of artistic expression and attention to detail. Do you really try believe that their only motive was ticket sales?
    Agree.

    Carsland is a success on many levels, artistic, enjoyment for the whole family, and of course ticket sales.

    A lot of people were afraid that Disneyland would fail, it didn't and became financially successful. If it hadn't . . . there wouldn't be a Miceage. Though "financially successful" sounds like a dirty term, in the theme park business it just means that the public enjoys what has been built.

    Also, Carsland became a personal passion project for Lasseter, his family was there when it opened. Like Disneyland, Lasseter put a lot of love into Carsland, for him and others it was more about ticket sales. They could have put in a massive new roller coaster to boost ticket sales, but they went with quality.

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