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  1. #106

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    I appreciate your posts and do hear what your saying. The Disney Corporation doesn't spend money building theme park lands to honor anyone; profits are, in fact, its only motive. To Disney Corp, "Walt Disney" is a brand. His likeness and mythology are marketed as a brand, by a corporation that has no affinity to or understanding of his life, ideals, methods, showmanship values and talents.
    So I take it you don't like the Walt and Mickey statue in BVS? Well, like it or not, BVS does pay homage to Walt Disney. Certainly, there are many inside of the mouse house that understand Walt Disney's life story. I can think of no other corporation in the world that pays such homage to its founder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    It does mean that Disney Corp, which is in the business of acquiring and marketing media brands, is marketing Walt as a branded product -- while at the same time rejecting, in its creative choices, business priorities and theme park operations, everything Walt stood for.
    I don't think Disney turned their back on Walt in terms of Carsland and BVS. I'm sure Walt and John Lasseter would get along just fine, two creative types who started out as animators and built entire lands at DLR.

    If I'm not wrong, the consensus on this board, and others, is that Carsland represents Disney doing things on a grand scale with a lot of detail, similar to how they tackled projects of decades past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    It most certainly is -- if ticket sales is all that one values. You're preaching to the beancounter choir: no-risk, short-term financial success via brand marketing is Disney's definition of success for its parks.
    You are more than likely making a very false assumption by implying that Carsland will not continue to be a big hit for years, and decades to come. Walk around Carsland, the theming is great, the rides are great, and I think most guests love being there.

    And I have proof, Al reported surveys showing that a large number of guests were interested in returning, something like 93% or more, that speaks to quality.

    Beyond ticket sales, guests love Carsland, you can't get around that.

  2. #107

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    A lot of people were afraid that Disneyland would fail, it didn't and became financially successful. If it hadn't . . . there wouldn't be a Miceage.
    Disneyland became a financial success as a result of the very qualities that are missing from the core of Carsland. If Disneyland had been designed, built and operated by the narrowly-focused, risk-averse, un-innovative marketeers that run it today, it would have flopped so fast they'd have been able to replant the orange trees.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  3. #108

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    I have similar feelings toward Carsland. I do like RSR and the mountain range but the rest just feels, I dunno, small? Luigi's is a lousy attraction IMO, Mater's is a dressed up carnival ride, way too many shops, Flo's is neither good nor bad-just meh. My plan of attack when going to DCA is get on RSR and get out of Carsland.
    Everybody's got their favorite rides, I kinda like ambling down RS's main street and Mater's more than RSR. Luigi's is fun if you get one of the new tires, which go really fast. My first time I went very fast, but couldn't get it going the second time, I think because they are adjusting the tires.

    Flo's is a great experience, it feels so authentic, like a roadside dinner, and the Cone provides some interesting options too.

  4. #109

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Disneyland became a financial success as a result of the very qualities that are missing from the core of Carsland. If Disneyland had been designed, built and operated by the narrowly-focused, risk-averse, un-innovative marketeers that run it today, it would have flopped so fast they'd have been able to replant the orange trees.
    Personal opinion as both Carsland and Disneyland were highly detailed immersive environments when they opened, and they both have similar success stories. If we could plop Carsland down in the 1950's Disneyland in the parking lot . . . boy would guest back then love it!

    It sounds like you don't want to give Iger/Lasseter credit for doing a wonderful job as you are blaming them for obvious past failures. I think it is obvious that Walt would love Carsland.

  5. #110

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    It most certainly is -- if ticket sales is all that one values. You're preaching to the beancounter choir: no-risk, short-term financial success via brand marketing is Disney's definition of success for its parks.
    Honestly Wiggins, the original Disneyland wouldn't have been a success if they didn't sell tickets, it many not be the only measure of success, but its the one that most actively keeps a theme park open.

    Pretty sure when Walt was around, you still had to pay for tickets, unless he was giving them out on the street.

    Though of course devoting one land to a franchise is bad, devoting one land to many franchises (Fantasyland) is much better. Though I do recall Walt building a castle to promote a movie...
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
    -Dr. Strange

  6. #111

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    I've said for years that too much of a good thing can spoil your enjoyment. I look at the people that visit the parks weekly, the podcasters whose lives revolve around the parks, some of the people that post on these and other boards, and wonder if they have any other outlets in life or is it all Disney all the time. I know there are people that fall into that bucket and it scares me that they have lost a grip on "real life." The difference between fans and life dominating fanatacism I've seen is truly sad. Seriously, look at the couple that visited the park every day for a year. People celebrated it but I personally was a bit disturbed by it.

    We are taking a long break from Disney, something that has been brewing for awhile for us. Years of being a Disneyland AP, Disney Mexico Cruise, trips to WDW in 2006 & 2010...it was just getting to be too much Disney for our family. Got to the point where the girls really didn't appreciate the passes or really have much desire to go anymore. And most surprisingly, neither did I. So we decided to not renew our AP's and will likely take a couple years away, potentially returning to WDW in 2015.

    Disney parks will always be special to us but the recent vacations to other destinations have highlighted how much we have been missing out on and how enjoyable some of these other experiences can be for us...far more than Disney in some cases.

  7. #112

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    Honestly Wiggins, the original Disneyland wouldn't have been a success if they didn't sell tickets, it many not be the only measure of success, but its the one that most actively keeps a theme park open.

    Pretty sure when Walt was around, you still had to pay for tickets, unless he was giving them out on the street.

    Though of course devoting one land to a franchise is bad, devoting one land to many franchises (Fantasyland) is much better. Though I do recall Walt building a castle to promote a movie...
    ^This.

    Theme parks are like little towns, and they need tourism to thrive and pay the salaries of everybody that works in them/for them. Disneyland's attendance is not only integral to this, but they proudly display the 'population' on the front of the park.

    A successful town, theme park, whatever, has a thriving population. Would Disneyland be considered a success if everybody said they loved it online, but nobody went there? Like in movie Cars, the town would 'dry up'.

    Carsland is a success because it draws huge numbers of guests which stems from the fact that the general public loves it. Not because of a summer blitz ad campaign, obviously the land has staying power.

    Also, just because something is tied to a movie, doesn't mean it doesn't stand on its own merits. How many guests know that the castle is Sleeping Beauty's castle? You can enjoy its beauty without knowing this, plus the castle started off as Snow White's castle, obviously it has Snow White's wishing well off to the side. Even after it became Sleeping Beauty's castle, it was a virtually unobtrustive marketing ploy as marketing ploys go. And it was referred to as simply the "Fantasyland castle" on opening day.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 01-04-2013 at 10:05 AM.

  8. #113

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    What would Walt do?
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money."

    "Disneyland is the star, everything else is in the supporting role."

    "Disneyland is a show."

    "It has that thing - the imagination, and the feeling of happy excitement- I knew when I was a kid."

    -Walter Elias Disney

  9. #114

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    I have been a pass holder since 1986, when it was only about $60 back in those days with no black out days and those were the true enjoyable days for me. My wife has been an AP for a number of years too. When our passes expire this coming July, I think we will not renew like others have mentioned here. For us, the magic has definitely diminished big time. Our past visits last for only about an hour in duration and then we are out of there and are on our way home. The crowds have ruined it for us and certain things that Disney has done to make the value of a visit less attractive. Their emphasis on meet and greets are not monetarily worth it. Getting rid of Carnation Gardens for a princess meet and greet with Fantasyland facades does not cry out value to me. Everywhere throughout the park, there is merchandise, merchandise, merchandise and nothing unique and original like years ago. Every store we go into, the same old thing, with again an emphasis on the princesses. I am sad about this decision we are going to make, but it needs to be done. There is more to life than just Disney.

  10. #115

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Disneyland became a financial success as a result of the very qualities that are missing from the core of Carsland. If Disneyland had been designed, built and operated by the narrowly-focused, risk-averse, un-innovative marketeers that run it today, it would have flopped so fast they'd have been able to replant the orange trees.
    When I first heard of the concept for Cars the movie, I scoffed at the notion that an audience would connect with animated cars. I thought here was a risk that would not pay off for Pixar. I was wrong.

    Accordingly, I think it is wrong to think that the very qualities that made the original Walt Disney Company such a financial success are missing from the core of Carsland. At the core of Carsland is a movie with much more imagination and emotional depth than Snow White, the movie that launched the Walt Disney Company.

    So, what gives? Why is the movie that is nothing more than a puerile recreation of an existing fairy tale the "stuff that dreams are made of", but the better movie and intellectual property (in so many ways) a sign of the decline of the Walt Disney Company?

  11. #116

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    I love the corporate branding comment as if basically EVERY ride in the past wasn't sponsored by a company. In my opinion the branding is much less than it used to be. And if it is Disney branding then who cares? This isn't 1955 anymore, people. Things change, get bigger, get more technological. I mean look at Main Street? What are you complaning about? They have kept that small town feel where they could.

    But everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I'm just glad that I continue to love Disneyland as much, actually much MORE, than i did when I was a kid. I'm a 44 year old kid. And i'm not some nerd. I live at the beach in Huntington. Go to tons of concerts, punk shows, etc. I have piercings and have multiple tattoos, but when I go to Disneyland i'm a giant Dland dork! I LOVE IT!! NO OTHER PARK keeps up the maintenance and new entertainment like Disney parks do. NONE.

    I went to Dland/DCA on 12/17 I believe...it was a Thursday. The place was empty. No lines for anything!! Don't tell me that it is crowded no matter what time of year you go even on weekdays. That's a fraudulent argument just trying to make your point. And if you go a lot like I do you don't mind the crowds. I have a pass so I can come and go as I please. Go on a few rides. Get some food. Find something new to do which I constantly do.

    If you are getting tired of Disneyland maybe you just went too much. Or maybe as you're getting older you're just over it. Don't blame Disney! Don't try and make it not about you...it IS about you.


    And on a side note I have made complaints to the Disneyland Resort customer service via phone and via email on a few occasions and each time I did I received GREAT customer service and personal replies back. I have emails stating they would speak to a CM's lead (if my complaint was about a CM) and the CM would be spoken to. No clue whether that happened, but as a customer service department you are supposed to listen and make the customer believe something will come of the complaint. So....as you have made a hasty generalization argument I can also make the same based on anecdotal evidence.

  12. #117

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by DL714 View Post
    Accordingly, I think it is wrong to think that the very qualities that made the original Walt Disney Company such a financial success are missing from the core of Carsland. At the core of Carsland is a movie with much more imagination and emotional depth than Snow White, the movie that launched the Walt Disney Company.

    So, what gives?
    "Carsland" doesn't feel like traditional Disney to some of us because it's a land based entirely off a cartoon. Sure, perhaps a good cartoon, with lots of "heart." And sure, the land may feature excellent detailing and theming. This isn't the argument. All agree it looks awesome. In the end, though, it's still a cartoon land.

    What land in Walt's original Disneyland was based entirely on a cartoon? Even Fantasyland wasn't based on a single cartoon, and later received theming based on traditional Eurpoean half-timber and Tyrolean architecture, lending the facades of the rides a veneer of reality.

    THIS is the difference. Original Disneyland gave us lands based on reality--history, "hard facts," Main Streets and Frontiers. Sure, some of the attractions were based on cartoons, and later live-action movies, but the four overriding realms of the imagination were represented by quasi-realistic themed lands.
    Last edited by Steve DeGaetano; 01-04-2013 at 01:07 PM.

  13. #118

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by atherton View Post
    I mean look at Main Street? What are you complaning about? They have kept that small town feel where they could.
    Main Street is mostly a shadow of it's origingal incarnation, which far better captured the spirit, as well as many of the details, of actual small American towns. The color scheme and the roof lines have been completely altered, widowwalks removed, vehicles removed. Visible lighting towers now occupy Town Square. Rooflines have been awkwardly raised to hide other lighting features. Thematically forced stores have opened, like Jolly Holiday Bakery.

    Yes, some things have improved--many of the interiors have been freshened and made to look more authentic. But from he outside, mostly aesthtically, the street has been forever altered.

    Quote Originally Posted by atherton View Post
    NO OTHER PARK keeps up the maintenance and new entertainment like Disney parks do. NONE.
    Well, some do. Busch Garden's Williamsburg is one I know of personally, that probably today does better than Disney on both counts.

  14. #119

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by Mom kissed Walt View Post
    I disagree that Cars Land was that much of a calculated or predetermined success. If it was then they clearly would have planned better as far as crowd control and wait times go.

    It is quite obviously a far bigger success than anticipated.
    It will be a year or so more before Carsland can be declared a huge success that holds. Everything Disney does gets huge crowds when introduced. It's the long term outcome that will determine whether people will still consider it as successful "beyond imagination" as has been claimed.

  15. #120

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    Re: It's Happening ... I'm Getting Over Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    "Carsland" doesn't feel like traditional Disney to some of us because it's a land basd entirely off a cartoon. Sure, perhaps a good cartoon, with lots of "heart." And sure, the land may feature excellent detailing and theming. This isn't the argument. All agree it looks awesome. In the end, though, it's still a cartoon land.

    What land in Walt's original Disneyland was based entirely on a cartoon? Even Fantasyland wasn't based on a single cartoon, and later received theming based on traditional Eurpoean half-timber and Tyrolean architecture, lending the facades of the rides a veneer of reality.

    THIS is the difference. Original Disneyland gave us lands based on reality--history, "hard facts," Main Streets and Frontiers. Sure, some of the attractions were based on cartoons, and later live-action movies, but the four overriding realms of the imagination were represented by quasi-realistic themed lands.
    If I'm not mistaken CarsLand and the movie Cars itself was based on a traditional American Reality of the old dusty Route 66. Didn't Lasseter say that the movie was inspired by a road trip that he was on? Carsland is a representation of not just a "cartoon" but of those old desolate location found on Route 66, the odd shops and run-down little towns. I think that's exactly why so many adults have fallen in love with Carsland along with the kids. Kids love the movies and parents love the nosalgia of the open road and trips they took as kids. Hell, I'm only 31 and it reminds me of taking road trips with my pop and brother and stopping in placed just like that.

    I think Carsland is a great balance of reality and cartoon. to me it hits both aspects right on the mark.
    "If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that"





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