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  1. #46

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    Re: Fast Pass Return Times to be Enforced In Spring

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    t
    1. Expand the return window. I hope it's not still 15 minutes, otherwise there will be lots of angry guests. And that means more complaints, both at City Hall and here. I think an hour, perhaps two, should be better. If you can't get back by then, then truly too bad.
    The hour grace period that is given now is plenty of time. There is no need to expand it.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  2. #47

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    Re: Fast Pass Return Times to be Enforced In Spring

    Quote Originally Posted by CSei2011 View Post
    I dont really care if they enforce it or not... I just know what kind of society we live in now, and nothing is anyone's own fault, it's someone else's.
    Please. Don't bring your feelings about some people's lack of personal responsibility into a conversation about a complex situation where a sizable portion of park guests may miss out on experiences and it was genuinely not their fault. Generalizing will get you nowhere.

  3. #48

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    Re: Fast Pass Return Times to be Enforced In Spring

    Quote Originally Posted by logicspeaks View Post
    Please. Don't bring your feelings about some people's lack of personal responsibility into a conversation about a complex situation where a sizable portion of park guests may miss out on experiences and it was genuinely not their fault. Generalizing will get you nowhere.
    It is really the exception where missing a return time is not the fastpass holder's fault. Most of the time it poor planning on the part of the holder.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  4. #49

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    Re: Fast Pass Return Times to be Enforced In Spring

    The basic fact is people don't put any planning or strategy into their day in the park. I have never had any problems coming back on time for my FP slot. If you can't handle coming back on time (in the very generous hour long window) then you shouldn't use the FP system, imo.
    I wish Frozen would have never been made.












  5. #50

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    Re: Fast Pass Return Times to be Enforced In Spring

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    The hour grace period that is given now is plenty of time. There is no need to expand it.
    An hour seems perfectly cromulent to me.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  6. #51

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    Re: Fast Pass Return Times to be Enforced In Spring

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    It is really the exception where missing a return time is not the fastpass holder's fault. Most of the time it poor planning on the part of the holder.
    yep.

    Quote Originally Posted by logicspeaks View Post
    Please. Don't bring your feelings about some people's lack of personal responsibility into a conversation about a complex situation where a sizable portion of park guests may miss out on experiences and it was genuinely not their fault. Generalizing will get you nowhere.
    so in a message board we are to not generalize? we are to take on a case by case scenario? hmmm seems highly un-likely.

    And seeing as how we've been members of this board for about the same time you have seen the many many threads that tell stories of how what I just said is true. Heck not even at disneyland it's true.

    I work retail. We give out coupons that are good a whole freakin month. What do I get the week AFTER the coupon expires? every other customer.. "Oh I swear I forgot! I couldn't find it!" lame excuse after lame excuse... It's the world we live in now. I'm sure if the FP time slot was all day they would come back the next day to try and use it. Maybe that's a BIT dramatic.. but it's not entirely untrue...

  7. #52

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    Re: Fast Pass Return Times to be Enforced In Spring

    Quote Originally Posted by CSei2011 View Post
    so in a message board we are to not generalize? we are to take on a case by case scenario? hmmm seems highly un-likely.

    And seeing as how we've been members of this board for about the same time you have seen the many many threads that tell stories of how what I just said is true. Heck not even at disneyland it's true.

    I work retail. We give out coupons that are good a whole freakin month. What do I get the week AFTER the coupon expires? every other customer.. "Oh I swear I forgot! I couldn't find it!" lame excuse after lame excuse... It's the world we live in now. I'm sure if the FP time slot was all day they would come back the next day to try and use it. Maybe that's a BIT dramatic.. but it's not entirely untrue...
    I don't suggest we take it on a case-by-case basis, but the idea that people miss their FP windows for legitimate reasons only very, very rarely is simply not true. I don't even have children and I know how unpredictable things can be with them - DL is full of families with children. I don't doubt that people abuse the system, lie, and are irresponsible MOST of the time (I work in retail too) but the fact is I love the DLR too much to think that even 2% of the time guests with legitimate reasons may miss out on part of the magic.
    I go all the time and to be honest I have never seen how not enforcing FP times has played a significant negative role in my experience. Enforcing those times and making it a regular occurrence that a family's day gets RUINED is something I just don't want. If there was a better, logistically sound way of going about it though I would be all for it.

  8. #53

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    Re: Fast Pass Return Times to be Enforced In Spring

    Quote Originally Posted by logicspeaks View Post
    I don't even have children and I know how unpredictable things can be with them - DL is full of families with children..
    I have two very young children and have never had a problem making a it back for a fastpass. Maybe not right at the start time, but within the one hour grace period that they give definitely.

    If something unpredictable happens, those are the breaks. The same thing would happen if it was a real person holding your place in line instead of a virtual one.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  9. #54

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    Re: Fast Pass Return Times to be Enforced In Spring

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    The CMs I spoke with earlier this week all stated they have been retrained for it, and were simply waiting to be told to implement it.

    We heard something simalar... We were told on Dec 12, 13, 14 by the CM collecting FP at TOT, that they would be enforcing FP returns starting on Jan 1st. This is the only attraction that mentioned this and when we asked at Space, they looked at us like we were crazy.

    It was a different CM each time, but it was in the same location on all three days (the FP collector area). Each person, all five of them for the five rides we took, said the same thing. It sounded very rehersed.

    While I do hope the FP is enforced, this last trip we just said "****it, when in Rome... we are going to do just as the locals/frequent guests do!!!" and are now full-on abusers of the system. Since the system is broken, it just seems easier to not play by the posted rules. With a broken system, there comes a point where you just have to give in. Yes, I am justifying it. But if we had an anarchist society in the USA, how would it help you if you pretended that rules and laws were still something to abide by???

    I do hope the system is fixed soon. I can feel my neg themepark karma waxing.
    ~Jay

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  10. #55

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    Re: Fast Pass Return Times to be Enforced In Spring

    How is using a fastpass outside of the window abuse? To abuse means to use wrongly or improperly, and that doesn't apply here because CMs are explicitly instructed to accept them at any time after the window begins. Disney made a conscious decision to allow that, which means that using a 1pm - 2pm fastpass at 9pm is 100% within the system's guidelines. Use, not abuse. At worst it's unfair to people who don't know the actual rules, but that really can't be helped because there are so many things like that at the resort, from knowing where to line up for RSR fastpasses in the morning to knowing the best spots to watch the fireworks are, etc.

    I'd say the percentage of people who use the passes late is pretty low, overall, and probably far lower than the percentage of people who have turned their brains off and show up a bit outside of their window (or heck, a lot outside of it) and are thankful that they can still use their passes. Is there any evidence, even anecdotal, that this "abuse" of the system is causing huge problems, especially later in the day?

  11. #56

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    Re: Fast Pass Return Times to be Enforced In Spring

    I agree with The International's take and personally don't get the fuss. If I don't show up for my 1:05 Fastpass doesn't that mean the line was shorter for that time period? Yes, the FP line is longer then planned when I return but if I just got in standby at that later time - the Standby line still gets longer. To me, FP gives the park some predictability and the ability to manipulate where the guests are - I don't see it as a way to increase capacity or efficiency. For what it is worth, we stuck to our return times at WDW this summer - and the Queue experice was.... Just like Anaheim. And the sun came up the next day.

    CSei2011 - I can appreciate your views on your customers and agree that people too often try and take advantage of the system by complaint and threat. Not all, but enough to make you *sigh*

  12. #57

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    Re: Fast Pass Return Times to be Enforced In Spring

    Quote Originally Posted by The International View Post
    How is using a fastpass outside of the window abuse? To abuse means to use wrongly or improperly, and that doesn't apply here because CMs are explicitly instructed to accept them at any time after the window begins. Disney made a conscious decision to allow that, which means that using a 1pm - 2pm fastpass at 9pm is 100% within the system's guidelines. Use, not abuse. At worst it's unfair to people who don't know the actual rules, but that really can't be helped because there are so many things like that at the resort, from knowing where to line up for RSR fastpasses in the morning to knowing the best spots to watch the fireworks are, etc.

    I'd say the percentage of people who use the passes late is pretty low, overall, and probably far lower than the percentage of people who have turned their brains off and show up a bit outside of their window (or heck, a lot outside of it) and are thankful that they can still use their passes. Is there any evidence, even anecdotal, that this "abuse" of the system is causing huge problems, especially later in the day?
    Anecdotal? Yes. ALOTTA posts all over this site alone. I don't have the time ATM so I will hope that someone else adds their 2 cents.

    As for abuse. To me it is a grey area in regards to the definitions I suppose. IMO it is abuse b/c it isn't being used as intended. Just b/c it is Disney sanctioned abuse doesn't mean it is NOT abuse. They created the rules, and then never stuck to them. And now that I have been told (as in my post above) that enforcement is on the way by Disney, I stand firm that it is abuse.

    It is just symantics anyway. Look... if you do not abide by the original rules set in place when FP was created, you know that you are displacing another guest. Not only is that rude, but it is a form of abuse.

    Hmmmm. I may have to re-think my next trip and watch all the other abusers use FP outside the window of time while I go back to playing by the rules. I bugs me to think that we did what we did last visit, now that I am looking back and thinking about it now.
    ~Jay

    "Ahh-chooo!" ~ Walt Disney
    "Bless you." ~ My Grandfather
    (Disneyland, circa 1957)


  13. #58

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    Re: Fast Pass Return Times to be Enforced In Spring

    What are you talking about? The rules, as of today, are that you can come back at any time after the window begins. Those are the rules, and as such anyone coming back after the window begins is, by definition, playing by them. Why would I play by the rules set before when Disney themselves admitted that they had problems and changed them?

    Anyway, based on Al's original article it seems pretty obvious that this change is going to happen but more so they can do the NextGen thing and let people schedule fastpasses in advance, not in response to abuse (which, y'know, would have been apparent years ago since this change has been in place since pretty shortly after FP was introduced into the parks).

  14. #59

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    Re: Fast Pass Return Times to be Enforced In Spring

    Quote Originally Posted by logicspeaks View Post
    I don't suggest we take it on a case-by-case basis, but the idea that people miss their FP windows for legitimate reasons only very, very rarely is simply not true. I don't even have children and I know how unpredictable things can be with them - DL is full of families with children. I don't doubt that people abuse the system, lie, and are irresponsible MOST of the time (I work in retail too) but the fact is I love the DLR too much to think that even 2% of the time guests with legitimate reasons may miss out on part of the magic.
    I go all the time and to be honest I have never seen how not enforcing FP times has played a significant negative role in my experience. Enforcing those times and making it a regular occurrence that a family's day gets RUINED is something I just don't want. If there was a better, logistically sound way of going about it though I would be all for it.
    Ideally (note the ideally), FP should reduce average wait times. If that works, then the "magic" would be increased for families, as they would spend less time in line and have more time to ride more rides, see more shows, etc.

    Whether or not they do reduce wait times has yet to be proven or disproven, based on the numerous threads I've come across in the short time I've been a member on here. Just wanted to throw in the possibility the there could be an overall advantage in this.

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  15. #60

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    Re: Fast Pass Return Times to be Enforced In Spring

    Quote Originally Posted by The International View Post
    The rules, as of today, are that you can come back at any time after the window begins.
    The rule is that you return within the window. It is printed on the ticket. While not currently enforced, it is the rule nonetheless.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

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