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  1. #61

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    Re: Guests with multi-day tickets now photographed to curb 'renting'

    Quote Originally Posted by clara View Post
    Regardless, after thinking about this, won't this back up lines to enter the park? I wonder how fast Disney can make the photo taking process be.
    This is my concern, too. On our last trip our lines were frequently held up by people with computer printouts as it was.

  2. #62

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    Re: Guests with multi-day tickets now photographed to curb 'renting'

    Just to clear things up - this is to prevent ticket renting right? Which implies selling the same multi-day ticket to multiple parties. This is completely different from selling new/unused tickets.

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  3. #63

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    Re: Guests with multi-day tickets now photographed to curb 'renting'

    Quote Originally Posted by KellyMcG86 View Post
    Just to clear things up - this is to prevent ticket renting right? Which implies selling the same multi-day ticket to multiple parties. This is completely different from selling new/unused tickets.
    Yes. This is to ensure that the person who enters the park on Day 1 of a multi-day ticket is the same person who returns with it on Day 2 and 3, and it's not switched, rented or sold to anyone else.

  4. #64

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    Re: Guests with multi-day tickets now photographed to curb 'renting'

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    Yes. This is to ensure that the person who enters the park on Day 1 of a multi-day ticket is the same person who returns with it on Day 2 and 3, and it's not switched, rented or sold to anyone else.
    Ok, that's what I thought. I saw people arguing about whether or not it's legal to sell unused tickets, and it seems that that's really not the point of this. Just making sure!

    It seems if they can get the photo thing streamlined and it acts as it does with AP (when it's functioning correctly), it should work quicker than people fumbling for IDs and reduce the issue with renting.

    I also like the idea of having lines specified for first-entry guests who need a photo taken. That definitely seems like it would help!

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  5. #65

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    Re: Guests with multi-day tickets now photographed to curb 'renting'

    Anything that stops ticket renting is A-OK by me. I'll just have to be sure my makeup and hair looks good for my 'close up'. LOL

    I want to say first that I DO NOT CONDONE TICKET RENTING IN ANY WAY,SHAPE OR FORM!!! Just sharing some info.

    As far as the legality of sale/resale of tickets, my son used to tour in a band and now works at a very successful internet firm that deals with musicians and athletes websites and ticket sales. He worked as the Director of Ticketing for a few years so I double checked with him as far as sale of tickets in California. Other states laws may differ.

    It is NOT illegal to buy and resell tickets for at, above, or below the artist's (or Disney's) set price as a 'private person'. The exception to this is scalping, which is defined as selling/reselling tickets AT the venue (in Disney's case, that would be on the physical premises). But, as a 'private person', I am free to buy tickets and list them on Craigslist, Stubhub, or even stand on Harbor Blvd (OFF premises) and offer them to passers by. This is why a lot of artists/venues limit the number of tickets people can buy. Now, if I want to start 'Stormy's Discount Tickets' and sell (not rent!) tickets I would need a resale license (for tax purposes, not as a 'license to sell tickets') but again could sell at whatever the market would bear.

    The issue of 'non-transferability' according to my son is a matter of contract law (civil not criminal law) between the venue/artist (Disney) and the purchaser. This allows the venue/artist (Disney) to 'void' the ticket and refuse entry. So, I can legally sell the ticket to someone if I am acting in good faith, but Disney has the right to 'void' the ticket at the gate. Now it's highly unlikely that there is going to be a problem if I buy tickets for, say, 15 friends using my credit card (love free air miles) and they then reimburse me. But if I tried to buy 100 tickets with the idea of selling them, Disney would probably balk at it and require me to enter into some type of contract with them and prove I have a resale license, like travel agents & Costco do. Again, my purchase of 100 tickets with the intent to resell them is NOT illegal. But Disney has the right to either not sell me the tickets, or hold me to a contract.

    As far as renting, California has no law per se that forbids it. My son told me that when they handle multi-day events, they usually have picture passes with names on them. Again, he says it is a matter of contract law if someone allows someone else to try to use their pass. This voids the contract between his company and the original buyer and they void the pass and confiscate it with no refund. BTW, he says it's pretty amazing the number of people who actually try to use a friend's pass, even with a picture on it! He says it's technically not illegal to 'try', just really stupid. LOL. And, yes, they have had to call the cops on people who get angry, and no, the police won't arrest them for trying to use the pass. They just tell them to leave the venue or arrest them for trespassing if they refuse. Because it's all contract, not criminal, law. His company (or Disney) would have to sue in civil court if they wanted to 'collect damages', but he said that since they aren't out anything, why bother? He said if they caught someone inside the venue, they 'could' sue for the price of admission if the person refused to then buy a ticket, but again, why bother. Not enough money involved.

    A big key in resale/renting is the concept of 'in good faith', which someone mentioned before. If you buy a ticket believing it is valid, you are buying 'in good faith'. If I sell you a ticket, I must do it 'in good faith'. Meaning that both buyer/seller believe it is a valid ticket. Ticket renters are not operating 'in good faith', not because they are violating Disney's nontransferability policy itself, but because they know that, under that policy, the ticket is NOT valid after the first 'user' has returned it & they rent it to someone else. This means that they are committing fraud, but their way around it is by offering refunds. The 'fraud' is against the renter by renting them a ticket knowing that it may be voided at the gate, not Disney. But I supposed as long as they agree to give a refund, not much will be done. If they refuse to give a refund, I suppose you could take them to small claims court. The police or district attorney would only get involved in a criminal fraud investigation after a huge number of people were 'defrauded' a great deal of money by not getting a refund (think Enron, not ticket renters).

    TL/DR: In California, ticket renting is unethical, not illegal as long as a refund is offered. Ticket re-sale is not illegal unless it's done on-site. Civil contact law may apply, but criminal law most likely won't. Ticket renting still sucks.
    "Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.​"

  6. #66

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    Re: Guests with multi-day tickets now photographed to curb 'renting'

    Stormy - that was very informative!! Thank you!

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  7. #67

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    Re: Guests with multi-day tickets now photographed to curb 'renting'

    Quote Originally Posted by KellyMcG86 View Post
    Stormy - that was very informative!! Thank you!
    You're welcome. I knew having an ex-musician for a son would come in handy some day. That and free concert tickets! LOL
    "Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.​"

  8. #68

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    Re: Guests with multi-day tickets now photographed to curb 'renting'

    I would think a more sensible way to combat the renting of multi-day tickets would be to lower the cost of a one day admission. It seems so obvious.

  9. #69

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    Re: Guests with multi-day tickets now photographed to curb 'renting'

    Quote Originally Posted by loungefly97 View Post
    It's not illegal to resell tickets at, above, or below face value in CA. It is only illegal to do so on the premises of the event. That's why people looking to buy or sell tickets at a concert are so shady about it.

    As far as scalping goes, it's a complex issue, but the real truth is it finds the real market value of a ticket. If U2 sells tickets for a max of $150 but a scalper can sell them for $800, the tickets are actually worth $800, not $150. Many, many, many artists and bands get around this by, behind the scenes, selling tickets through Ticketmaster-owned scalpers. This way they look good to the public selling cheap tickets, but actually make their real value by selling them behind the scenes.

    It's not too much different than anything else. I bought a guitar for $200 and sold it for $1100. Should that be illegal too?

    The answer is for artists, Disneyland, etc. to do their best to limit it. I saw signs Saturday that multi-day ticket holders had to show ID upon entry, so perhaps the photo thing didn't work and they changed already.

    Resellers will always find ways. Some bands have forced those who buy tickets to be present and use the ticket for entry themselves. Scalpers just end up buying nosebleed seats, give them to the people who buy the good seats, they all enter, then the scalper hands the good seats over to the buyer and leaves.
    great post!

    Scalpers are indeed shady and I think Disneyland should do what they can to limit it, but for goodness sakes people, we do not live in a police state (or at least I hope we don't) and if it's not illegal, saying it should be punished to the fullest extent of the law is just... Silly.

  10. #70

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    Re: Guests with multi-day tickets now photographed to curb 'renting'

    Also great post Stormy! And agreed. It does suck.

  11. #71

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    Re: Guests with multi-day tickets now photographed to curb 'renting'

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Anything that stops ticket renting is A-OK by me. I'll just have to be sure my makeup and hair looks good for my 'close up'. LOL

    I want to say first that I DO NOT CONDONE TICKET RENTING IN ANY WAY,SHAPE OR FORM!!! Just sharing some info.

    As far as the legality of sale/resale of tickets, my son used to tour in a band and now works at a very successful internet firm that deals with musicians and athletes websites and ticket sales. He worked as the Director of Ticketing for a few years so I double checked with him as far as sale of tickets in California. Other states laws may differ.

    It is NOT illegal to buy and resell tickets for at, above, or below the artist's (or Disney's) set price as a 'private person'. The exception to this is scalping, which is defined as selling/reselling tickets AT the venue (in Disney's case, that would be on the physical premises). But, as a 'private person', I am free to buy tickets and list them on Craigslist, Stubhub, or even stand on Harbor Blvd (OFF premises) and offer them to passers by. This is why a lot of artists/venues limit the number of tickets people can buy. Now, if I want to start 'Stormy's Discount Tickets' and sell (not rent!) tickets I would need a resale license (for tax purposes, not as a 'license to sell tickets') but again could sell at whatever the market would bear.

    The issue of 'non-transferability' according to my son is a matter of contract law (civil not criminal law) between the venue/artist (Disney) and the purchaser. This allows the venue/artist (Disney) to 'void' the ticket and refuse entry. So, I can legally sell the ticket to someone if I am acting in good faith, but Disney has the right to 'void' the ticket at the gate. Now it's highly unlikely that there is going to be a problem if I buy tickets for, say, 15 friends using my credit card (love free air miles) and they then reimburse me. But if I tried to buy 100 tickets with the idea of selling them, Disney would probably balk at it and require me to enter into some type of contract with them and prove I have a resale license, like travel agents & Costco do. Again, my purchase of 100 tickets with the intent to resell them is NOT illegal. But Disney has the right to either not sell me the tickets, or hold me to a contract.

    As far as renting, California has no law per se that forbids it. My son told me that when they handle multi-day events, they usually have picture passes with names on them. Again, he says it is a matter of contract law if someone allows someone else to try to use their pass. This voids the contract between his company and the original buyer and they void the pass and confiscate it with no refund. BTW, he says it's pretty amazing the number of people who actually try to use a friend's pass, even with a picture on it! He says it's technically not illegal to 'try', just really stupid. LOL. And, yes, they have had to call the cops on people who get angry, and no, the police won't arrest them for trying to use the pass. They just tell them to leave the venue or arrest them for trespassing if they refuse. Because it's all contract, not criminal, law. His company (or Disney) would have to sue in civil court if they wanted to 'collect damages', but he said that since they aren't out anything, why bother? He said if they caught someone inside the venue, they 'could' sue for the price of admission if the person refused to then buy a ticket, but again, why bother. Not enough money involved.

    A big key in resale/renting is the concept of 'in good faith', which someone mentioned before. If you buy a ticket believing it is valid, you are buying 'in good faith'. If I sell you a ticket, I must do it 'in good faith'. Meaning that both buyer/seller believe it is a valid ticket. Ticket renters are not operating 'in good faith', not because they are violating Disney's nontransferability policy itself, but because they know that, under that policy, the ticket is NOT valid after the first 'user' has returned it & they rent it to someone else. This means that they are committing fraud, but their way around it is by offering refunds. The 'fraud' is against the renter by renting them a ticket knowing that it may be voided at the gate, not Disney. But I supposed as long as they agree to give a refund, not much will be done. If they refuse to give a refund, I suppose you could take them to small claims court. The police or district attorney would only get involved in a criminal fraud investigation after a huge number of people were 'defrauded' a great deal of money by not getting a refund (think Enron, not ticket renters).

    TL/DR: In California, ticket renting is unethical, not illegal as long as a refund is offered. Ticket re-sale is not illegal unless it's done on-site. Civil contact law may apply, but criminal law most likely won't. Ticket renting still sucks.
    bam! thats what i mean about the licensing! i just wasn't explaining it right!

  12. #72

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    Re: Guests with multi-day tickets now photographed to curb 'renting'

    Quote Originally Posted by KellyMcG86 View Post
    Ok, that's what I thought. I saw people arguing about whether or not it's legal to sell unused tickets, and it seems that that's really not the point of this. Just making sure!
    not unused nobody said anything about unused but half used tickets. like multi-days..and who was arguing? no arguing going on here..just points and opinions being made.

  13. #73

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    Re: Guests with multi-day tickets now photographed to curb 'renting'

    if something is non-transferable then that means you can't transfer it to someone else.
    ex: if you give you fastpass to someone else that is against Disney's rules/policy since those are also non-transferable. it even has the guest barcode on it. and you will get in trouble if you photocopy fastpasses and try to use them due to copyrights. ok i might be wrong on some of the info but i am just guessing

  14. #74

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    Re: Guests with multi-day tickets now photographed to curb 'renting'

    Quote Originally Posted by OliviaVonDrake View Post
    I would think a more sensible way to combat the renting of multi-day tickets would be to lower the cost of a one day admission. It seems so obvious.
    I don't see how that is a viable solution. If they lower the cost of a single day ticket there is no incentive to buy multiday tickets. Disney likes selling these as it gets the money up front for those days whether they are used or not. If a person is planning to spend three days in the park and buy a three day ticket and something comes up where the person can only use two of the days, Disney wins because the third day is paid for.

    Going the single day method, Disney would lose out on that third day.
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    Re: Guests with multi-day tickets now photographed to curb 'renting'

    Quote Originally Posted by DannyLand View Post
    if something is non-transferable then that means you can't transfer it to someone else.
    ex: if you give you fastpass to someone else that is against Disney's rules/policy since those are also non-transferable. it even has the guest barcode on it. and you will get in trouble if you photocopy fastpasses and try to use them due to copyrights. ok i might be wrong on some of the info but i am just guessing
    Printing counterfeit fastpasses is different from renting tickets.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

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