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  1. #16

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    It's true that following Walt's death, there was a "What would Walt do?" mentality that pervaded the company and impeded the very type of innovation that Walt championed.

    HOWEVER, the idea that all critiques of all changes ever for any reason are automatically invalid because Walt or Steve Jobs or the family from Meet the Robinsons or whoever was "pro-change" is preposterous.

    Yes, Walt loved innovation, and hated repeating himself. He also took inspiration from fairy tales that were hundreds of years old, and re-relased his major movies every seven years so that each new generation could experience them. He didn't say, "Well, they'll hate this old movie, lets change it all because that will automatically make it better."

    Regarding the equally preposterous idea that all Disney critics are "anti-change" - I've yet to see comments that Sunshine Plaza was better than Buena Vista Street. (I'm sure somebody here liked Sunshine Plaza better, but I haven't seen huge complaints that it's gone). And there's a thread out right now that says "Sad News...Innoventions" that's sad because Innoventions may NOT be changing yet, and people want it to!

    Quote Originally Posted by BC_DisneyGeek View Post
    This is a very simplistic way of looking at the issue. In your mind, all change is good, no matter what. You also dismiss any critics of change as being in complete disagreement and claiming to know what's best.

    Each change needs to be evaluated on its' own merits. Very few people want Disneyland to remain stagnant, but change solely for the sake of change is not necessarily a good thing.

    No one knows what Disneyland would be like if Walt were still alive, but we can certainly look to how he did things as a guide. Quality, original, and groundbreaking is how I would describe Walt's Disneyland. I know not every new attraction will be an E-ticket, but can we not ask if changes to Disneyland are indeed of high quality, unique, and something we haven't seen before?

    Movie tie-ins are fine, but the balance between those and original concepts for attractions has gone off-balance in many people's opinion.

    Look at something like Winnie the Pooh. Another tie-in which doesn't do anything dramatically better than existing dark rides. They could have blown us away by transplanting Hunny Hunt, but went for cheap and easy instead. Is that what Walt would have done? I don't think so, and if you blindly declare such an attraction as being "good", just because it's a change, I don't know what to say.
    Quoted for truth .
    Last edited by animagusurreal; 01-12-2013 at 02:16 AM.
    "Happy Working Song" parody for DCA remodel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-TYESfNTP8&feature=plcp

    Retro Rant Review of "The Hunchback of Notre Dame II" (comedy review of direct-to-video
    Disney sequel):
    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/user/animagus.../1/q1j7FU8QXu0
    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/user/animagus.../0/sasNTMDRBLU

    Retro Rant Review of "Home on the Range" (comedy review of Disney movie):
    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7mC-...feature=relmfu
    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoUie...feature=relmfu
    Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3Vea...feature=relmfu


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    Pratfall the albatross superheroine visits the Carthay Circle Theatre.

  2. #17

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by animagusurreal View Post
    He didn't say, "Well, they'll hate this old movie, lets change it all because that will automatically make it better."
    That would be George Lucas.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  3. #18

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Micoofy Duck View Post
    I see a great theme park, as it is and as it moves forward.
    This is a common opinion among folks who are unable to compare today's park against the park as it existed in earlier times.

  4. #19

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    That would be George Lucas.
    LOL. Exactly, I'm excited about the potential of ANYONE BUT LUCAS doing the new films . So you see, I like CHANGE sometimes!
    "Happy Working Song" parody for DCA remodel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-TYESfNTP8&feature=plcp

    Retro Rant Review of "The Hunchback of Notre Dame II" (comedy review of direct-to-video
    Disney sequel):
    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/user/animagus.../1/q1j7FU8QXu0
    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/user/animagus.../0/sasNTMDRBLU

    Retro Rant Review of "Home on the Range" (comedy review of Disney movie):
    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7mC-...feature=relmfu
    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoUie...feature=relmfu
    Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3Vea...feature=relmfu


    Visit my site: http://www.vividgroovy.com



    Pratfall the albatross superheroine visits the Carthay Circle Theatre.

  5. #20

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    Sorry. To clarify a little more. This was actually an interview with Tim cook on a conversation had with Steve jobs before his death. Got my things mixed up.

  6. #21

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    With how quickly word gets out in the world of the internet, it's so much easier for us to see that DLR's Winnie the Pooh and Monsters Inc. are the poor man's versions of the Japanese counter parts, that WDW has had issues with maintenance that do affect the show, and that people don't want half baked shows like the Toy Story Musical.

    That's why it's easier for us to hold Disney Parks to a higher standard. It's why Universal is closing the gap between them and Disney quality attractions. If we just accepted Disney Parks as they are no matter what, they'd become Knott's. Don't get me wrong, I love Disney Parks and enjoy almost every minute in them, but when something's so obviously neglected, such as paint on a handrail that's supposed to be new... you have to question what's going on. Or shows that are lack luster and go away after a few months like LuminAria.

    The whole "What would Walt do/think/etc." thing shouldn't be interpreted as being against change, but more of Disney Parks setting the highest standards. There should be ownership from everyone all the way up to the Execs down to the parking CM's. Not entitlement, but having pride in what goes on and how things work at DLR, WDW, etc.

  7. #22

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    I find it ironic that Steve Jobs said that about Walt when Apple basically is saying the same thing now: "What would Steve do".....
    “No worries, stay calm, one question. 
Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”

  8. #23

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    Guilty! Of being nostalgic for Disneyland of old. But I can whine about the bad silly changes I've seen (Tarzan's Treehouse) and applauded the good ones (DCA makeover).
    The one thing I'm not buying is the Lies for Profit. Disney has become excellent in spinning Lies in order to justify Profit. Goodness, Disneyland had great profits, maybe not excellent profits, yet someone had to think up a great Lie to justify increasing ticket prices. Also, someone got paid well for thinking up the Lie for cancelling Cast Christmas parties. These changes by Lies are not boding well for the company. Our American society is accustomed to Lies, with our presidents, Congress, corporations and people engaging in it.
    When a change is needed, I'm hoping Disney will do it for the good of the company. It just doesn't seem to be that way.

  9. #24

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Change isn't the issue. Bad change is the issue.
    This. Change is good as long as it's progress. Taking out something beloved for decades or iconic for the sake of something cheap and gimmicky, for the sake of selling more merchandise, is lacking in spirit and the quality that the company should always strive for.
    "The old man's gonna knock on the sky. Listen to the sound."

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  10. #25

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    Star Tours 2.0 = good change, as it mixed up the experience, upgraded technology, added a lot of elements from all six films in proper doses and added humor and action both, though I miss certain elements of the original 1989 version.

    The ham-handed and unsubtle Pirates film additions to the classic POTC = bad change.

    There is a difference. Not all change is bad.
    when the spooks have a midnight jamboree....

  11. #26

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ortizmo2000 View Post
    This. Change is good as long as it's progress. Taking out something beloved for decades or iconic for the sake of something cheap and gimmicky, for the sake of selling more merchandise, is lacking in spirit and the quality that the company should always strive for.
    Bingo.
    “No worries, stay calm, one question. 
Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”

  12. #27

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by RegionsBeyond View Post
    Star Tours 2.0 = good change, as it mixed up the experience, upgraded technology, added a lot of elements from all six films in proper doses and added humor and action both, though I miss certain elements of the original 1989 version.

    The ham-handed and unsubtle Pirates film additions to the classic POTC = bad change.

    There is a difference. Not all change is bad.
    Another bingo.
    “No worries, stay calm, one question. 
Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”

  13. #28

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Change isn't the issue. Bad change is the issue.
    Yes, I full hardheartedly agree. Hopefully this applies to the new Tomorrowland

  14. #29

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by RegionsBeyond View Post
    Star Tours 2.0 = good change, as it mixed up the experience, upgraded technology, added a lot of elements from all six films in proper doses and added humor and action both, though I miss certain elements of the original 1989 version.

    The ham-handed and unsubtle Pirates film additions to the classic POTC = bad change.

    There is a difference. Not all change is bad.
    Speaking to the choir. Pirates changes make me dizzy every time I pass that Mayor in the well scene. They should not be askin' where Jack Sparrow is they should be asking where the gold is. =====Bad change

  15. #30

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    This is a common opinion among folks who are unable to compare today's park against the park as it existed in earlier times.
    As a visitor of 40 years, I still see it as a great theme park. While Tomorrowland still lacks the kinetics and was destroyed with the remodel, the remainder of the park has grown in very positive ways. Too often we hold on to our nostalgic experiences of youth and fail to realize that the park had to change. Adventure thru innerspace, America Sings/Carousel of Progress, Mine train thru Nature's Wonderland...All things that I remember fondly and loved but were really past their prime. The Country Bears...that's a tough one. I don't remember it drawing big crowds in it's later years and I don't believe it's overly popular at WDW anymore. It was probably time for it to go as well.

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