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  1. #31

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by stevek View Post
    Too often we hold on to our nostalgic experiences of youth and fail to realize that the park had to change.
    Once again, that's not what Disneyland's critics are saying: the issue is not the necessity of change, but what the current Disney Corporate regime has changed certain portions of the park experience into.

    Over and over, posters on this forum explain in detail their criticisms of Disneyland and the standards and values from which those criticisms are derived. And over and over, their words are distorted, depreciated and dismissed with ad-hominem accusations of "you just don't like change," "you just don't understand that the park has to change," "your critical faculties are blinded by the nostalgia of youth," "you just want Disneyland to be what it was when you were a kid," and the parent program of this fallacious class, "you just want Disneyland to be a museum."
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 01-13-2013 at 08:22 PM.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  2. #32

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Once again, that's not what Disneyland's critics are saying: the issue is not the necessity of change, but what the current Disney Corporate regime has changed certain portions of the park experience into.

    Over and over, posters on this forum explain in detail their criticisms of Disneyland and the standards and values from which those criticisms are derived. And over and over, their words are distorted, depreciated and dismissed with ad-hominem accusations of "you just don't like change," "you just don't understand that the park has to change," "your critical faculties are blinded by the nostalgia of youth," "you just want Disneyland to be what it was when you were a kid," and the parent program of this fallacious class, "you just want Disneyland to be a museum."
    Seems like there are people in both camps. Those that don't like change for nostalgic reasons and those that don't what the corporate regime are doing, I just notice alot that seems to fall in the former. My point was not to distort, depreciate or dismiss anyones opinion on changes. My issue is more about generalizations discounting opinions because they didn't experience the park as it existed in the early years...50's-80's.

  3. #33

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by RegionsBeyond View Post
    Star Tours 2.0 = good change, as it mixed up the experience, upgraded technology, added a lot of elements from all six films in proper doses and added humor and action both, though I miss certain elements of the original 1989 version.

    The ham-handed and unsubtle Pirates film additions to the classic POTC = bad change.

    There is a difference. Not all change is bad.
    Very well-said. Change is good when it makes sense and serves to further the goal of whatever is facing the change. As you said, Star Tours was an excellent change that freshened a dated and aging attraction in good ways. The jury is out on Fantasy Faire until it opens, but from what I have seen in the concept art and construction, it looks like another good change that will revitalize an underused portion of the park. The addition of Disney characters to IASW and the changes made to POTC do nothing to further either attraction or make them better. The IASW additions, while relatively harmless, make no sense. And the injection of Jack Sparrow, Barbossa, Davy Jones, and Blackbeard into POTC are obnoxious changes that take the original story in another, backward direction.

  4. #34

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by stevek View Post
    ...My point was not to distort, depreciate or dismiss anyones opinion on changes. My issue is more about generalizations discounting opinions because they didn't experience the park as it existed in the early years...50's-80's.
    Fair enough. I totally agree that distorting, depreciating or dismissing opinions on either side of this debate is wrong. It doesn't help the debate, it only polarizes.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  5. #35

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Micoofy Duck View Post
    "ohhh burn!" - Easy A

    Always again, an opinion. I see a great theme park, as it is and as it moves forward. You want some kind of higher standard that you set yourself. I walk in happy, you walk in seeing flaws. Have fun.
    good point

  6. #36

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Micoofy Duck View Post
    You want some kind of higher standard that you set yourself.
    Wiggins didn't set the standard--Disney did. Wiggins just still expects that standard.

    (He's so silly!)

  7. #37

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Micoofy Duck View Post
    Always again, an opinion. I see a great theme park, as it is and as it moves forward. You want some kind of higher standard that you set yourself. I walk in happy, you walk in seeing flaws. Have fun.
    "I can never stand still. I must explore and experiment. I am never satisfied with my work. I resent the limitations of my own imagination. " - Walt Disney

    So clearly, Walt hated his work, including Disneyland. Oh wait...

    "That place is my baby and I would prostitute myself for it." - Walt Disney
    "Happy Working Song" parody for DCA remodel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-TYESfNTP8&feature=plcp

    Retro Rant Review of "The Hunchback of Notre Dame II" (comedy review of direct-to-video
    Disney sequel):
    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/user/animagus.../1/q1j7FU8QXu0
    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/user/animagus.../0/sasNTMDRBLU

    Retro Rant Review of "Home on the Range" (comedy review of Disney movie):
    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7mC-...feature=relmfu
    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoUie...feature=relmfu
    Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3Vea...feature=relmfu


    Visit my site: http://www.vividgroovy.com



    Pratfall the albatross superheroine visits the Carthay Circle Theatre.

  8. #38

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    Re: Not moving forward...

    What was the moral from that awsome Disney movie that has been barried into company history because it seems not to sell tickets...Keep Moving Forward... That is if the compay really embraced the stance the founder had than the fear is that we will stop moving forward and start looking back and when you turn your head around you are going to trip and fall. (Just look at WDW) Just my two cents.
    Check out my work on openstreetmap.org
    http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=33...om=17&layers=M

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