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  1. #16

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    Where is all this trash people are complaining about? I attend the parks on average more than once a week and I never notice an issue with littering. I think one time since February 2012 I encountered an overflowing trash can in Pacific Wharf, but that's it.

  2. #17

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    That was a really interesting read. Although change is needed, I can assume a lot of Annual Passholders aren't going to give up their AP's very easily, or even have reduced benefits without giving their opinion on it. I do believe the AP Program has given some people the idea of entitlement, but changing the AP Program to try and keep these people down would also hurt honest going AP-er's like myself and many others. It would be very difficult to find a middle ground where both parties will be happy, or at least partially moody but still glad they have the AP program.

    My opinion on guests' behavior. There are the good, the bad, and the ugly. There may be a sea of good but the small spot of bad will always make things turn for the worse and ugly will rear its face. Times have changed with people's attitudes throughout the years, and there is no way we can really change that. So we either need to step up our game and go down on those people or just suck it in and trudge on through.

    And now onto the topic of the 'Pay to Ride' concept. Quite honestly I cannot imagine having to pay to ride an attraction. I'm not saying it's a bad concept, and I find the use of ticket books and the such quite endearing. But that's from a passive observing perspective. If I were put into that situation my day would end early because I would just run out of money too quickly and I'd end up leaving the park a few hours past noon by then. And I can also suspect a lot of locals and mostly tourists would be unhappy about this too, since we are all so used to the concept of 'Pay once and have unlimited rides'.

    Plus, I want the freedom of options. People, like me, like to do things on the fly. I don't want to plan out what rides I want to ride a number of times before I cannot ride anymore. That just takes out the fun in things, because then I'd have to adhere to a very strict spending rule. No matter how much I want to go see the Enchanted Tiki Room or ride King Arthur's Carousel, I just cannot or else I would not be able to ride Indiana Jones because I set down how much money I have to spend. It's like a casino where you tell youself in your mind that you must stop after a certain amount of money is spent.

    Also, agree or disagree with me as much as you'd like, but personally I think that making people pay for rides would make them feel even more entitled. "I paid good hard earned money to ride Splash Mountain. I paid with MY money so I'm going to enjoy this ride the way I want!"

    PS: Would single riders even still be available? Or would people have to pay too? How would Single Riders even work with a pay to ride concept installed? Would they pay the same price, get a discount, have penalties, etc. I have no idea since I have no previous experience with the 'Pay to Ride' concept.



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  3. #18

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkILIS View Post
    Where is all this trash people are complaining about? I attend the parks on average more than once a week and I never notice an issue with littering. I think one time since February 2012 I encountered an overflowing trash can in Pacific Wharf, but that's it.
    It isn't just the trash mate. It's what people do to the parks. Tearing at peeling paint, spitting into the water of Splash Mountain, etc.

  4. #19

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    I'd be very much in favor of charging a "ticket" for those attractions that currently have the longest wait times. Whether it's paper tickets or a card that you can simply "refill" if needed, I think it's the solution. And when you purchase a ticket for an attraction you get a reservation time for it.

  5. #20

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Disney could certainly go back to the old system of pay for play, but they would have to figure out a way to convince people to pay five dollars to see the Tiki Room. Or just replace it entirely.
    While I agree that it would be difficult to ask a guest to shell out $5 for the Tiki Room, the old ticket system required the purchase of a ticket book that included A through E tickets. Ticket Books at Yesterland

    So if they went back to the old way, you would have A through D tickets in addition to your E tickets. Eventually, you'd probably feel like you had to use those A-D tickets to get your money's worth. Thus, you might find yourself at the Tiki Room, ready to give up an A ticket.

    I believe it was designed this way to distribute guests throughout the rides. I don't think individual tickets were ever sold, but someone could correct me on that.

    By the way, isn't it crazy to think the Tiki Room could easily be an A ticket these days, when it started out as an E ticket? lol

  6. #21

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by The First Star View Post
    I believe it was designed this way to distribute guests throughout the rides. I don't think individual tickets were ever sold, but someone could correct me on that.
    Individual tickets were sold at attractions. Some of the ticket booths have been re-purposed but still inhabit the Park.

    Quote Originally Posted by The First Star View Post
    By the way, isn't it crazy to think the Tiki Room could easily be an A ticket these days, when it started out as an E ticket? lol
    The Tiki Room, if I remember my Disney history lesson, started out as a separate admission that was not covered by the A-E Ticket Books. It used to have an Audio-Automatronic Barker Bird, outside the Tiki Room, that enticed guest to purchase tickets for the show.
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  7. #22

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    Maybe this is just because it's been this way since I started going to the park as a kid in the 80's, but I can't imagine the park going back to the old system, whatever the benefits may or may not be.

    Re: the OP - I think the type of kid who would rather unroll toilet paper than go on rides at Disneyland would behave that way regardless of the ticketing system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bongo View Post
    ...Also, agree or disagree with me as much as you'd like, but personally I think that making people pay for rides would make them feel even more entitled. "I paid good hard earned money to ride Splash Mountain. I paid with MY money so I'm going to enjoy this ride the way I want!"
    Yeah, I can attest to that being true. I used to work at a Boomers' (then Camelot Park) mini-golf place where attractions like the go-karts had individual tickets. One woman called me a "dork" because her son was too short to ride the go-karts. And there were a lot of speeches about "I drove 5,000 miles and paid a trillion dollars so little Billy could ride the go-karts at Santa Maria Camelot Park for his birthday, and now you're telling me he can't?!"
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  8. #23

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    Bongo sez:"My opinion on guests' behavior. There are the good, the bad, and the ugly. There may be a sea of good but the small spot of bad will always make things turn for the worse and ugly will rear its face. Times have changed with people's attitudes throughout the years, and there is no way we can really change that. So we either need to step up our game and go down on those people or just suck it in and trudge on through."

    Very true and valid point. Yes, some people today have an unbelievably huge sense of entitlement. Others were either never taught to behave or have discarded those lessons. But, I can remember a time when those people-behaving-badly were vilified and/or shamed by others. Today, it seems that when people see bad behavior, rather than sending that person to Coventry, they think "Well, if they can do it, so can I!" and proceed to forget their own moral compass. Part of the problem, I will admit, IS the lack of response from whoever is in charge, be it CMs, the salesperson who gives in to a nasty customer at the mall, or the parent who allows their child to have a tantrum and then buys them 'that toy'. It used to be that it was expected that whoever was in charge would put the offender in their place. Now, the offender is usually given what they want. Why? I'd say, to avoid lawsuits and 'bad PR'.

    As a society, we have learned some rather bad lessons in how to get what we 'think' we deserve. And the truth is that no one 'deserves' anything based on who we are or how much we paid for 'whatever', we earn it by being a good citizen of this planet. Or rather, that's the way it should be. It seems that more people use bullying tactics rather than 'please and thank you'. This isn't just a Disney problem, but Disney is stuck with trying to deal with it and still be the 'Happiest Place on Earth'.

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  9. #24

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    I have liked the passport ticket concept. As a CM in the late 70s, it was an employee perk to be able to buy one for about $10.00. You can imagine how popular I was in my family circle. It didn't make me a mad maniac or entitled elite person nor did my family change either. But we could only control our behaviors. I guess other people had other ideas.
    I'm gonna blame half of Eisner, the last part of his tenure. That's when he OK the maintenance cutbacks and allowed Disneyland to become seedy. When the Big Honcho seems to believe in profits over a clean, well maintained park, guest will have to throw their garbage anywhere they see an overflowing trashcan.

  10. #25

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    Disney had no choice but to offer the unlimited use passports. Knots beat them to it first. I remember thinking when I was a kid how cool that you could do this at Knotts and not at Disneyland.

    There once was a day that Knotts really gave Disneyland a run for its money. As they say history is bound to repeat itself. If Disney doesn't pay attention to the competition they may once again find themselves left behind. And to be honest with my non- Micechat friends this might already start to be happening.
    Actually, DL used a form of this when I was a kid. They attached a red bracelet around your wrist and you could ride any attraction as many times as you wanted without exiting the ride to wait in line.

    That was I think back in the late 60's.


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  11. #26

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by The First Star View Post
    While I agree that it would be difficult to ask a guest to shell out $5 for the Tiki Room, the old ticket system required the purchase of a ticket book that included A through E tickets. Ticket Books at Yesterland

    So if they went back to the old way, you would have A through D tickets in addition to your E tickets. Eventually, you'd probably feel like you had to use those A-D tickets to get your money's worth. Thus, you might find yourself at the Tiki Room, ready to give up an A ticket.

    I believe it was designed this way to distribute guests throughout the rides. I don't think individual tickets were ever sold, but someone could correct me on that.

    By the way, isn't it crazy to think the Tiki Room could easily be an A ticket these days, when it started out as an E ticket? lol
    Having a crystal clear memory of the ticket book system -- here is how it worked: generally when you visited the park you used up all of your D & E tickets. A, B, and C were also used but usually when you went home your ticket book never had any D & E tickets left in it. However I usually did wind up with unused D & E tickets because my mom would buy a ticket book for herself but never went on any of the rides. They did have tickets you could buy that would simply let you into the park only with no rides but she always bought herself a ticket book so I could use her tickets as well. Because of this we almost always came home with some unused D & E tickets. Now the cool thing is that you could re-use old tickets. So whenever we went back to Disneyland we would bring our old unused tickets from prior visits and used those also to go on the rides - as I said I rarely bought individual tickets when I went to the park - I only remember having to do that maybe once and I don't even remember what that ticket looked like. You always had A-C tickets but D & E were always hard to be found in your ticket book at the end of the day.

    And the tiki room originally had no ticket but later obtained E ticket status if I recall. (maybe D). But here's my opinion of using ticket levels to rate ride experience: the Main Street vehicles all used A tickets, and Fantasyland rides were all A-C. But if they got rid of those the impact would be just as great if not greater than if they were to close POTC or HM.

  12. #27

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.



    Enchanted Tiki Room opened in 1963, and initially a separate ticket was required, which cost 75 for adults. That year, the E ticket had a face value of 50, so to enter the Tiki Room cost more than an E ticket cost. Even though the ticket says, "Walt Disney Productions" at the bottom, the Tiki Room was initially owned by Walt's private corporation WED Enterprises. So adult guests had to pay 75 in 1963 (approximately $5.64 in today's dollars) to enter the Tiki Room in 1963. Based on my limited research, the Tiki Room continued to be sold separately and was not listed on a regular E ticket until 1967.

    We also saved our ticket books if there were any unused tickets in them and brought them with us on our next visit. My Dad had the "Magic Kingdom Club" card and we could buy ticket books that had the same number of tickets and sold for the same price, but they weren't A-B-C-D-E tickets, all tickets in the book could be used on any attraction, so you could use them all for E attractions if you wanted to.

    I remember buying individual tickets inside the park only one time, at the mushroom-shaped ticket booth you see in old pictures of Fantasyland. I remember the cast member just pressing some buttons and the tickets were dispensed through holes in the flat area between you and them. They were the small tickets about 1.5 inches long, that come in large rolls and are used for things like church raffles and stuff. But they were stamped "Disneyland E" or whatever.
    Last edited by Bob Weaver; 01-13-2013 at 02:14 PM.

  13. #28

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    The problem is not the ticketing system. The problem is people. Sadly, people are needed to justify the existence of Disneyland.
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  14. #29

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ortizmo2000 View Post
    The problem is not the ticketing system. The problem is people. Sadly, people are needed to justify the existence of Disneyland.
    This. Society has been degrading at an alarming rate over the last 15 years. The problem is seen at Disneyland due to the large amount of people that visit it, but it's everywhere. Graffiti in restrooms is commonplace everywhere, not just Disneyland. From my understanding, it was not commonplace 30-50 years ago. People had respect for their environment, whether it was their own or someone elses.

    The Jungle Cruise is a prime example. I have been told my numerous people who visited the attraction in the 'early days' that the Jungle Cruise was famous for it's witty skippers who would crack really funny jokes. That's why it had a line. But then people started to get 'offended' by some jokes. Being Disney, they had to care that their guests would get offended, so limitations were put in place on the content of the spiels. Now that's one thing, but now the fact that people are having so much trouble getting in and out of the boats is disturbing. Your kid fell in the water? Why didn't you hold their hand? Why didn't you act like a responsible adult and guide them in yourself? So now it's our fault they missed their step because you didn't help them? You're going to sue us? Great. The netting on the sides of the boats is obviously there to prevent people from getting their fingers crushed between the boat and the dock. What happened to common sense so tell yourself not to put your fingers there?

    These may be examples from Disneyland, but it's everywhere. You don't have to look hard at all to see it.

    Personal responsibility is out the window, and it's society's fault, not Disney's. I want a private island now.

  15. #30

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    Remember the original version of this bridge?


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