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  1. #46

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pretzel View Post
    I remember my childhood back in the 70s and bad behavior was just as bad then as it is now. The only thing that has changed is that Disneyland is no longer considered an "upscale", occasional experience that you get dressed up for.
    BINGO.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pretzel View Post
    It might be possible to reverse that trend with different ticket pricing schemes but it will be a huge gamble for the company, and it might not necessarily make it an equally profitable operation.
    Well, this is why I was thinking it'd be good to offer it strictly as an option, rather than completely switching over from the current system to ticket books. I don't think it would be that big a gamble, either, since it would only be adding an extra option to the existing ticketing options. Most likely, a lot of folks would still choose to purchase Passports and Park Hoppers, and APs would still be purchased (although we know many are not renewing theirs). This simply allows those folks who either can't or don't want to spend the cost of a Passport, Park Hopper, or AP a way to still enter the Park and enjoy it, albeit on a more limited basis. This sort of flexibility in pricing is, I think, a good thing.

    I mean, from Disney's viewpoint, better to make $30 off somebody than $0, right? If $87 is too much for someone (especially someone who is both limited in budget and time), but $30-40 is within reach, why not have them spend that money in Disneyland, rather than at Knott's or somewhere else?

    Would it solve the crowding issue? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. That's another issue, of course. If capacity is reached, they can suspend sales of ticket books at the Main Gate until the capacity issue subsides (in-park ticket sales could still continue, though).

    I just find it a bit peculiar that so many are naysaying this idea, when there are already 4 variations of the Annual Pass, three of which involve blockout dates (which necessarily make them limited access passes). This is just transplanting the same sort of idea and its inherent flexibility to the infrequent or one-time Park visitor, as well as those of us who have to manage more limited budgets.

  2. #47

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    The chances of ticket books returning are zero, or perhaps less than zero since we know that the NextGen system is what Disney's going to push towards over the next decade and that's diametrically opposed to the kind of "show up and ride six rides for $30" system you guys seem to think is even remotely feasible.

    The OP is based on a single anecdote about one misbehaving kid from one CM... Maybe the kid in question really just didn't like theme park rides and ended up at Disneyland with his family one day? I think it's a huge stretch to draw a conclusion about a supposed shift in demographic behavior based on a single story. What if that kid had messed up the bathroom 10 years earlier and said it was because he ran out of tickets to go on rides? Bam, the entire ticket system you guys covet is discredited.

  3. #48

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    I love it when people make every effort to not believe in something, and then call it impossible. "Not even remotely feasible." Yeah, that's what they said in 1954, too.

    Listen, you don't want to buy into a concept, that's fine, don't buy into it. But please don't pretend that "it's just not possible." Anything's POSSIBLE. Likely? Maybe, maybe not, that all depends on a variety of factors, such as who's running things in Burbank.

    And if you honestly think that forcing NextGen down everyone's throats and requiring EVERYONE to reserve time on EACH attraction in advance, with ZERO room for spontaneity, is going to be popular and welcomed by everyone with open arms, then you're sadly mistaken.

    I'm only talking about an OPTION. But hey, thanks for the hostility.

  4. #49

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    I never said it was going to be popular, just that Disney is obviously spending a ton of money on implementing it whenever possible. That's their corporate goal. Returning to a la carte pricing for rides is not going to happen. I apologize if that came off as hostile, I only meant to be realistic.

  5. #50

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    Yes, people are occasionally rude, but this thread makes it seem like Disneyland is a hellscape covered in garbage and graffiti with packs of ne'er-do-wells running rampant. Other than the very rare occurrence of line-jumping or littering, or seeing a grumpy guest get snippy with a cast member, I hardly ever see any bad behavior in the parks.

    If anything has changed since the old days, I would guess that the company doesn't have as many employees out and about in the park to clean, maintain, and (politely) keep guests in check. All the workers are there to operate rides and sell stuff. Same as everywhere - companies have cut customer service down to an absolute minimum to maximize profits. But I'm speculating that this could be the chief contributing factor to a behavior problem IF there really is one, which I don't think there is.

    I think that bringing back any incarnation of the old ticket system would be a disaster. Mixing it with all-access passes would be confusing, and pricing it low enough to actually make it worth getting instead of a day pass would just add to the crowding.

    Nickelodeon Universe at Mall of America has a pay-per-ride system, with an option to get an unlimited rides pass. When I went there, I spent a few minutes trying to figure out if I could save money by just purchasing the rides I wanted individually, but trying to compare all the different pass options got aggravating and I finally just said, "This is dumb, I'm getting an unlimited pass so I don't have to worry about it!"

  6. #51

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    Returning to ticket books would, IMHO, put Disney at a distinct disadvantage. One would have to wonder why someone would want to drive to Anaheim and pay $15/$20 in parking, plus $30 for the ticket book, to go on, say, five rides...when they could to go Knotts, Magic Mountain, Universal or SeaWorld and ride unlimited attractions all day long.

    As to whether struggling families would embrace it - I don't think so, either. Speaking from my own experience, it's actually a lot easier not to go somewhere than it is to go somewhere and have to keep being told "no, we can't ride on that, it's too expensive" or "no, we already rode our five rides, no more."

    I also think the ticket books would make it MORE likely that people would use Disneyland as a hangout. If you have a non-ride admission that is close to what someone pays for the movies, you know you're going to have a lot of people showing up to hang out.

  7. #52

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    Yeah, maybe you're all right. Maybe today's Disneyland guests are just too bloomin' STUPID to figure out what we kids were able to easily figure out 30 years ago.

    Maybe today's Disneyland visitors are just so used to having everything brought to them on a silver platter, that having to actually make choices and put a value on an experience, rather than just get everything all at once, would be just too hard for them. Why have just a slice of cake, when you can pig out on the whole cake? Why have just two or three slices of pizza, when you can stuff your face full of not just one pizza, but two?

    Oh, wait. What were we saying about that entitlement mentality? Yeah.

  8. #53

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    It's not an entitlement mentality at all, and it's not a personal attack - we're allowed to have differences of opinion. Really.

    It's about getting the best value for the dollar. In a lot of very fancy restaurants they offer lunch and dinner menus that throw everything in; on a cruise you pay one price for all the basics of food, lodging and entertainment and the add-ons aren't necessary for full enjoyment of the trip. It's the same concept.

    Also keep in mind that 99% of theme parks use the pay one price system, and there's a reason for that. Tickets and piecemeal prices have become associated with carnivals and smaller amusement parks.

    If money is tight you're going to choose the entertainment option that offers you what you feel is the best deal and the most bang for the buck. Pay one price admission offers that.

  9. #54

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    In the "old days" Disneyland was a unique destination in the world and going there was a special occasion, it was expensive but within the reach of the middle class, and guests received a premium experience for their dollars, and guest fitting for all those factors. And people knew how to behave in public in those days. People had respect for each other, even for strangers.Yes, there were many social ills back then, but there was an expected standard of behavior in public, at least in "nice" places such as Disneyland.

    Now, the company sells "Disneyland" as a commodity, available in 5 locations in the world, and sells it up in slices of time, 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5-day tickets, the various annual passes with their numbers of days included, and going there is no longer a special occasion for buyers of those passes, it's even more expensive, and guests receive a commodity-type experience. And guest behavior is fitting for all of those factors. And people don't know how to behave in public any more.

  10. #55

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    Also keep in mind that 99% of theme parks use the pay one price system, and there's a reason for that. Tickets and piecemeal prices have become associated with carnivals and smaller amusement parks.
    So, Disney should follow the crowd, and not do what carnivals, county fairs, and small amusement parks do, because....why? Is there something wrong with that? Is there something inherently wrong with offering an alternate choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    If money is tight you're going to choose the entertainment option that offers you what you feel is the best deal and the most bang for the buck. Pay one price admission offers that.
    It doesn't offer it if you can't afford it. Then you pay $0, Disney gets $0, and you have 0 entertainment.

    You'll have to forgive me; I grew up a local near Disneyland, and for us, it wasn't a vacation destination where we spent days on end doing nothing but exploring the Park, and it wasn't a "resort." Resorts were what rich people went to on vacations, usually in some far-flung locale you took an airline flight to, or an ocean cruise. We weren't rich, and we didn't go to any resorts or take vacations in far away places or go on cruises. But we could go to Disneyland! And somehow, amazingly, we kids were able to have the times of our lives with just 10 or 15 tickets each. Full days, 8 am to 1 am in the summer, and we came away with memories to last a lifetime.

    So, I don't know, maybe I see things a little differently. I'm sure that's very, very bad, and should be discouraged.

  11. #56

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Weaver View Post
    In the "old days" Disneyland was a unique destination in the world and going there was a special occasion, it was expensive but within the reach of the middle class, and guests received a premium experience for their dollars, and guest fitting for all those factors. And people knew how to behave in public in those days. People had respect for each other, even for strangers.Yes, there were many social ills back then, but there was an expected standard of behavior in public, at least in "nice" places such as Disneyland.

    Now, the company sells "Disneyland" as a commodity, available in 5 locations in the world, and sells it up in slices of time, 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5-day tickets, the various annual passes with their numbers of days included, and going there is no longer a special occasion for buyers of those passes, it's even more expensive, and guests receive a commodity-type experience. And guest behavior is fitting for all of those factors. And people don't know how to behave in public any more.
    Thank you, Bob. You remember.

    I just don't understand. All I want to do is recapture the real magic and the specialness of that time, and bring it back, so that everyone can enjoy it again.

    I dunno, I guess it's just a pipe dream.

    I don't know why I even bother sometimes. Everyone talks a bunch of crap about magic and imagination and dreams come true and all, but then when you have a dream, an idea, use your imagination, and try to capture some magic, people tell you what a terrible idea it is, and how it won't work, and how nobody would want it, and blah blah blah. It gets so frustrating and so discouraging and depressing dealing with all these "realistic thinkers." Thanks, but if I wanted realism, I'd just turn on the nightly news and forget all about going behind a berm.

  12. #57

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    I can't believe anyone
    I mean I think it would be horrible if anyone
    but there are people out there who seriously
    so I'll just agree with anyone who
    That way I'm not going against anyone who

    haaha! that was kinda funny in a way how you did that, got a kick out of that!! LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Bongo View Post
    It isn't just the trash mate. It's what people do to the parks. Tearing at peeling paint, spitting into the water of Splash Mountain, etc.

    i really can't read through this whole thread, but the above that is gross. never knew people spit into SM water..huh. well it's not like we are drinking it!

  13. #58

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    Is it just me or are things getting a bit hot in here?



    Quote Originally Posted by Retrocool View Post
    So, I don't know, maybe I see things a little differently. I'm sure that's very, very bad, and should be discouraged.
    I've seen this happen a lot where an older generation doesn't really see eye to eye with the newer generation. Like how people of the 80's say people of the 21st Century didn't have it as good as them. Just a different point of view that's all. It's like how for me in 10 or 20 years I'd start to see things wrong with the future community because it's something I did not grow up with. Now I'm not saying its good or bad, but it's just something that happens. Older generations will find things to talk about, whether nicely or unpleasant, in the future about future generations.



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  14. #59

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Retrocool View Post
    So, Disney should follow the crowd, and not do what carnivals, county fairs, and small amusement parks do, because....why? Is there something wrong with that? Is there something inherently wrong with offering an alternate choice?
    Again, it's not wrong, but it would give a distinct competitive edge to the other parks that do offer POP.

    It doesn't offer it if you can't afford it. Then you pay $0, Disney gets $0, and you have 0 entertainment.
    No, then you pay whatever Knotts, Universal, SeaWorld or Magic Mountain charges for their pay one price ticket, go there, and have a great time. Disney gets nothing out of that deal and the other parks get a boost.

    You'll have to forgive me; I grew up a local near Disneyland, and for us, it wasn't a vacation destination where we spent days on end doing nothing but exploring the Park, and it wasn't a "resort." Resorts were what rich people went to on vacations, usually in some far-flung locale you took an airline flight to, or an ocean cruise. We weren't rich, and we didn't go to any resorts or take vacations in far away places or go on cruises. But we could go to Disneyland! And somehow, amazingly, we kids were able to have the times of our lives with just 10 or 15 tickets each. Full days, 8 am to 1 am in the summer, and we came away with memories to last a lifetime.

    So, I don't know, maybe I see things a little differently. I'm sure that's very, very bad, and should be discouraged.
    If people are already complaining about how teenagers use the park as a hangout and are causing trouble...how would that change for the BETTER with lower admission costs or worse, no set admission charge at all?

    It's fine to have differences of opinion - I am not sure why you are taking this so personally. Nostalgia is great. It's not 1960 or 1975 now, though. Times change, business models change and the expectations of the public change. It doesn't mean those expectations are wrong in any way; it just means they're different.

    Also keep in mind that ticket books would require more CMs to handle the ticket collection, check APs or hoppers before allowing guests in line, etc. I'd rather see those CMs in other areas of the park where they're needed more, such as the restaurants where there's often only one register open. I was at Jolly Holiday one night where a manager/lead in street clothes was scrambling around to help serve customers because they were so woefully understaffed.
    Last edited by Malina; 01-14-2013 at 10:58 PM.

  15. #60

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    Re: Policy can breed bad behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    it would give a distinct competitive edge to the other parks that do offer POP.
    Disneyland used to have a "distinct competitive edge" no matter how they offered their tickets.

    In fact, there was absolutely NO competition.

    My, how far the place has slipped. And even more amazing, the number of people who do not see this at all.

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