Page 12 of 23 FirstFirst ... 2910111213141522 ... LastLast
Results 166 to 180 of 338
  1. #166

    • -
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Uijeongbu
    Posts
    6,542

    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by JMazz View Post
    He is more like MC than many members are giving him credit for.
    I don't see how he is anything like Mice Chat.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  2. #167

    • Pilot EdForceOne
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    15,619

    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by JMazz View Post
    Voila.
    I am so glad you went there. (Sorry, I am trying to catch up - been away for a while).
    It's a simple answer.. one is editorial and arguably 'newsworthy' and hence allowed under fair use and the definition of a 'public place'...

    the other is not.
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


    Am I evil? yes, I am
    Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

  3. #168

    • Pilot EdForceOne
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    15,619

    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by JMazz View Post
    Very debatable when one is on property. Just ask the TPR team/Robb Alvey.
    Since the on property topic is the main issue with this film maker, I think there is a correlation. Mr. Alvey commented about how Disney could shut down and/or limit Disney park news sites if they so choose. I am speaking of sites that post pics of what is going on in the parks (and make a profit).
    No - a very important distinction here.

    Disney could stop them from taking photos and bar them from the property... but Disney could not 'shut down' their use of their photos and video as long as they are used under purposes protected by fair use.

    This is how Disney can stop a news crew from setting up in their park - but can't stop a news crew from showing footage obtained from within the park.

    The other thing fansites could get a black eye from Disney is the use of IP in their names or graphics - because there they are typically using them outside the scope of fair use, and instead are using it for their own identities or promotion.

    There are very important, distinct, differences in what a comment from Rob Alvery says, and how you are applying it here.
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


    Am I evil? yes, I am
    Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

  4. #169

    • some assembly required
    • Offline

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    nowhere in particular...
    Posts
    687

    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    What Moore did has zero relationship with what MiceChat does. What MiceChat does is legal. What Moore did is illegal.
    I enjoy your posts Mr Wiggens, and I tend to agree with you much of the time, but in this post, I totalllllly disagree.

    (And I am happy to have read a handful of posts of other ppl making the Moore-MC connection.)
    ~Jay

    "Ahh-chooo!" ~ Walt Disney
    "Bless you." ~ My Grandfather
    (Disneyland, circa 1957)


  5. #170

    • some assembly required
    • Offline

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    nowhere in particular...
    Posts
    687

    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Olson View Post

    Brand Tarnishment - Having some creepy thirty-something dad stalking a couple of fourteen-year-old teens in the Parks is 100% counter to the image Disney works tirelessly to promote. Disney wants images of Daddy with his five-year-old daughter Jenny (in Belle dress, thank you) on his shoulders - not some underage teen with her legs around a pedophile's neck by the hotel pool.

    Brand Dilution - Disney has other concerns as a corporation with a *ton of IP under their control. We don't know exactly what you will see in the picture itself, but we do know that even the poster places multiple, well-known Disney assets right onto the key art.

    This is why you'll see companies start campaigns aimed at keeping people from calling a facial tissue a Kleenex, even when that company is Kimberly-Clark, who owns the Kleenex Brand. It is actually damaging to their ability to protect their Trademark if everyone simply asks for a kleenex when they want a tissue or makes a xerox instead of a copy or orders a coke when they really want a caramel-colored soft drink.

    Disney isn't some evil overlord bent on crushing a storyteller. They are a company that has worked for more than three-quarters of a century to build the best-recognized IP inventory on the planet. And they aren't going to let an independent filmmaker with a seamy story set in their backyard tarnish their brand.

    This is the truth of it from a guy who develops and protects IP for a living.
    This is where the issue lies and I think if Disney goes after him it is where they have a case. (The bolded from Erik's post)
    ~Jay

    "Ahh-chooo!" ~ Walt Disney
    "Bless you." ~ My Grandfather
    (Disneyland, circa 1957)


  6. #171

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Paper St
    Posts
    1,343

    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    This thread sort of reminds me of the one regarding the urban explorer getting banned from WDW...I'll ask the same question here as I did there.

    How is this different from people on fansites (like this one) posting pictures of construction sites? Are the people allowed to be taking over-the-wall photographs? Nope. Are they benefitting from them by posting them online? In a way, yes. Not to mention that this guy will probably not even receive a wide release for this film so we're all getting our panties in a wad for nothing.

    Regarding using 'extras' without paying them, there are ways to blur them out...in post production the guy probably just focuses the action on his actors. But let's be serious, people are videotaping at Disneyland everyday, and they'll catch other guests in the action on accident, but no one freaks out by the thought of these videos being shown to the video-tapers' family or YouTube. There's really nothing wrong with that unless some of you are criminals who don't want to be caught on camera.

    Look at it from a filmmaker's perspective. Film makers are poor, they often don't have the means to start off anywhere. This guy had an idea and only one way of making it happen. If his film tarnishes the Disney brand in any way (which I'm sure he knows it does), then it's not going to get released. The guy's probably fine with that. But he wanted to start somewhere. For those of you who have seen District 9, that started as a nine minute short by the same director...didn't get much of anywhere until Peter Jackson saw it, hired him to remake it with a bigger budget, and he did it right. The little home movie was a platform for the guy to get a legitimate career as a Hollywood filmmaker. If this film is any good, the guy will get picked up and get to make a legitimate movie and everyone can calmmm dowwnnnnn.

  7. #172

    • MaliBOOMer
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    1,247

    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Being against IP theft and invasion of privacy is hardly "getting upset just to have something to be upset about"

    Again, not all profit is monetary.
    In general, one cannot have a reasonable expectation of privacy in things held out to the public. You have no expectation of privacy in a public space, which includes non public property where anyone can get in of they pay.
    Favorite Ride: Indiana Jones Adventure

    Sign the Petition: https://www.change.org/petitions/goo...-original-form

  8. #173

    • some assembly required
    • Offline

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    nowhere in particular...
    Posts
    687

    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    I don't see how he is anything like Mice Chat.
    While there are differences, we have two entities making money from something that doesn't belong to them. Where do we draw the moral line? We both are in favor of rules (I see this from both of us all the time on MC)...

    I say this to everyone else:
    I am truely concerned with MCers being hypocritical. As a community, it looks bad on us. And it bothers me when so many MCers do it at once.

    No matter what a coaster guru may or may not have said, and no matter who may or may not have heard the conversation w/ said guru even tho I know he wasn't there, :P and no matter the laws, and no matter who breaks big rules or little rules, us MCers rely on talents of ppl who go into the park to get us the best shots. And then they turn around to make money from us (ads and offers). My shots don't make money, your shots don't make money either. The newscasters on channel five don't make money on their shots b/c they haven't made any pics within the berm as a rule-of-thumb. Sorry everyone, making money off of a BTMRR construction pic that was never intended to be seen by the public is NOT fair-use.

    No matter what buzz-words someone throws around ("fair use"), MC is not following this rule/law, nor are any of the other fansites. The sheer number of pics per week breaks the fair-use issue. We cannot condemn one style of guerilla art and praise another style of guerilla art on the basis of IP.

    If someone doesn't like the idea of this guys creepy movie, don't see it. And certainly one shouldn't give him a leg-up in the film industry by posting several times on the topic by arguing the same points over and over again. I am not saying who so as to avoid an argument.

    Ultimately, I refer readers to my first post on page four of this thread and I say, you just got sucked in! You may not want to see Moore's film, and you probably wont, but you may have just caused someone else to go see it. Is that everyone's intention here and maybe I just missed the memo???
    Last edited by JMazz; 01-25-2013 at 05:53 PM. Reason: clairifying Moore's film
    ~Jay

    "Ahh-chooo!" ~ Walt Disney
    "Bless you." ~ My Grandfather
    (Disneyland, circa 1957)


  9. #174

    •   
    • Minion
    • Online

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,838

    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Regarding using 'extras' without paying them, there are ways to blur them out...in post production the guy probably just focuses the action on his actors. But let's be serious, people are videotaping at Disneyland everyday, and they'll catch other guests in the action on accident, but no one freaks out by the thought of these videos being shown to the video-tapers' family or YouTube. There's really nothing wrong with that unless some of you are criminals who don't want to be caught on camera.
    It's been discussed over and over again what the differences are. There's a distinct difference between being part of a nonfiction/news/documentation video and being part of someone's fictional, artistic creation. People have a right to decide if they want to be part of the latter.

    Regarding the "why would you care about being on the film unless you're a criminal" argument - do you really think that's true? I have a friend who literally had to leave her state and change her name because she was in a domestic violence situation. If she were caught on film it could be dangerous for her for all sorts of reasons. Should she never be allowed to go in public because she might be filmed? She can avoid situations where filming is taking place if she KNOWS about them. Maybe some people don't want their children on tape in a film like this. Maybe some people don't want their images on film because they object to the film's content. They have the right to decide if they are going to be in a fictional film.

    Could this aforementioned friend still get caught on camera in someone's personal YouTube video of the park? Sure, but it's probably far less likely to be seen than a film.

    Look at it from a filmmaker's perspective. Film makers are poor, they often don't have the means to start off anywhere. This guy had an idea and only one way of making it happen. If his film tarnishes the Disney brand in any way (which I'm sure he knows it does), then it's not going to get released. The guy's probably fine with that. But he wanted to start somewhere.
    Being a poor starving artist is not an excuse for ethical breaches. LA is full of poor filmmakers who are working with one camera, volunteer crews, no filming permits, etc....who still manage to hire or recruit extras, give people the courtesy of letting them know they're being filmed for a movie, and compensate them in some way. The sad part about this is that if he'd put out a call for unpaid volunteer extras on craigslist he probably could have come up with a bunch of people who would have been happy to be in his film. But instead he decided to s***w over everyone who was in the park that day.

    This guy is trying to make his name off someone else's brand (Disney) and a lot of people who didn't consent to be a part of his work.

    As to the whole issue of making money off photos of the park - a couple of points there.

    1. Disney allows people to take photo/video for personal use, and doesn't have any ban or restriction on uploading it.
    2. A photo of a construction wall/etc. is depicting something as it is - ie, news reporting or documentation. It's not showing a fictional construct.
    3. Technically, Disney would be within their legal rights to shut down the videos on YouTube that show the rides, the ride music, etc. They don't, which shows they that have some tolerance. Again, though, a ride video is depicting the ride as it is - it's not adding something fictional or distorting the ride.
    4. As such, those videos do provide the sort of free advertising Disney actually likes.

    If someone were to, say, start selling a DVD of their ride videos I'm sure Disney would swoop right down on it.
    Last edited by Malina; 01-26-2013 at 02:16 AM.

  10. #175

    • "I don't like the color"
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    In the TARDIS
    Posts
    1,957

    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    It's been discussed over and over again what the differences are. There's a distinct difference between being part of a nonfiction/news/documentation video and being part of someone's fictional, artistic creation. People have a right to decide if they want to be part of the latter.

    Regarding the "why would you care about being on the film unless you're a criminal" argument - do you really think that's true? I have a friend who literally had to leave her state and change her name because she was in a domestic violence situation. If she were caught on film it could be dangerous for her for all sorts of reasons. Should she never be allowed to go in public because she might be filmed? She can avoid situations where filming is taking place if she KNOWS about them. Maybe some people don't want their children on tape in a film like this. Maybe some people don't want their images on film because they object to the film's content. They have the right to decide if they are going to be in a fictional film.

    Could this aforementioned friend still get caught on camera in someone's personal YouTube video of the park? Sure, but it's probably far less likely to be seen than a film.



    Being a poor starving artist is not an excuse for ethical breaches. LA is full of poor filmmakers who are working with one camera, volunteer crews, no filming permits, etc....who still manage to hire or recruit extras, give people the courtesy of letting them know they're being filmed for a movie, and compensate them in some way. The sad part about this is that if he'd put out a call for unpaid volunteer extras on craigslist he probably could have come up with a bunch of people who would have been happy to be in his film. But instead he decided to s***w over everyone who was in the park that day.

    This guy is trying to make his name off someone else's brand (Disney) and a lot of people who didn't consent to be a part of his work.

    As to the whole issue of making money off photos of the park - a couple of points there.

    1. Disney allows people to take photo/video for personal use, and doesn't have any ban or restriction on uploading it.
    2. A photo of a construction wall/etc. is depicting something as it is - ie, news reporting or documentation. It's not showing a fictional construct.
    3. Technically, Disney would be within their legal rights to shut down the videos on YouTube that show the rides, the ride music, etc. They don't, which shows they that have some tolerance. Again, though, a ride video is depicting the ride as it is - it's not adding something fictional or distorting the ride.
    4. As such, those videos do provide the sort of free advertising Disney actually likes.

    If someone were to, say, start selling a DVD of their ride videos I'm sure Disney would swoop right down on it.
    Agree with what you say here Malina. As a matter of fact Disney has swooped down before, anybody remember the Extinct Attractions Club?
    Whatever happened to the Extinct Attractions Club?
    “No worries, stay calm, one question. 
Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”

  11. #176

    • -
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Uijeongbu
    Posts
    6,542

    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    How is this different from people on fansites (like this one) posting pictures of construction sites? Are the people allowed to be taking over-the-wall photographs? Nope.
    The difference is, those construction photos were taken and presented in a news report type of fashion, not some fictionalized drama with this filmmaker's creepy spin put on them. In addition, there is nothing wrong with taking photos over a construction wall as long as they are not taken by going into an area where one is not allowed to go or by standing on a trashcan or in a planter which is also against the rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Not to mention that this guy will probably not even receive a wide release for this film so we're all getting our panties in a wad for nothing.
    Thank you for devaluing everyone else's opinion on here with the panty comment, but how wide the release is not the issue. Any play that this gets is something that could advance this guy's career. This means that he is profiting off of Disney's IP and other people's images without their permission.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin View Post
    In general, one cannot have a reasonable expectation of privacy in things held out to the public. You have no expectation of privacy in a public space, which includes non public property where anyone can get in of they pay.
    You are quoting a basic tort principal that is taught in the first year of law school, but this situation is different.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMazz View Post
    While there are differences, we have two entities making money from something that doesn't belong to them. Where do we draw the moral line? We both are in favor of rules (I see this from both of us all the time on MC)
    Again, the difference is how the content is presented. Here, it is presented as a news report of the happenings at the park. The other is a completely fictionalized format. They are totally different.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  12. #177

    • Pilot EdForceOne
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    15,619

    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    If someone were to, say, start selling a DVD of their ride videos I'm sure Disney would swoop right down on it.
    You mean like how they would shutdown Jeff Lange?? oh wait..

    You should follow Disney's inconsistent enforcement a bit closer
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


    Am I evil? yes, I am
    Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

  13. #178

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    477

    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    No, it's only because it was at Disneyland that we know about it. I know I, and I'm sure most others would feel that what this guy did was just as scummy at any other location.
    I agree. This movie had me very interested. I doubt the content would bother me, personally. If the content did happen to upset/bother me, that's my personal opinion, and it's none of my business if others enjoy the film or not. It's the manner he used to create it I find offensive. I still value respect and privacy.
    * *The dreams that you wish will come true* *

  14. #179

    •   
    • Minion
    • Online

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,838

    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    You mean like how they would shutdown Jeff Lange?? oh wait..

    You should follow Disney's inconsistent enforcement a bit closer
    I've no particular interest in doing so. I do know that Disney has pulled a few videos of rides before they were opened and has also yanked some of their actual films off YouTube, but they allow a lot of others - the Horizons stuff, all sorts of ride videos, photos of backstage taken at RunDisney events, etc. - to remain. Clearly they're not so rabid about copyright protection that they're going to scream every time someone sets a video to "Under the Sea" or photographs a ride. I'm surprised they're letting someone sell park DVDs but if it's the park as it is, ie documentary/news, it's still not a threat to them.

    There's nothing inconsistent about that - Disney seems to be fine with things that don't distort their brand, and personal account of experiences in the park. They don't seem to be fine with things that violate their rules, exploit their guests and distort the brand. That's pretty much in line with every company.

  15. #180

    • a wind to shake the stars
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    935

    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    So, to recap:


    Some new construction at Disneyland (this is fine)


    In the background of this image from my upcoming film you'll see some of the treacherous villains! (this is morally repugnant)

    Really, I hope that guy in the blue shirt is okay with his image being used here... Fishbulb may have put him in serious danger by putting this image on the internet!

Page 12 of 23 FirstFirst ... 2910111213141522 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [Idea] Armchair Imagitition II: Escape from the Tower!
    By jesterjack in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-25-2010, 10:07 AM
  2. Whats your favorite disney song from a classic movie
    By rob3gd in forum MiceChat News Archive
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 08-27-2009, 07:11 AM
  3. Escape From The Haunted Mansion
    By Lost Boy in forum MiceChat Main Lounge
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 11-15-2008, 07:24 PM
  4. Escape From Critter Country: an idea to alleviate congestion
    By BigThunder in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 08-22-2006, 08:27 PM
  5. New toys from upcoming Pixar movie 'Cars' released.
    By OogieBoogie in forum MiceChat News Archive
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-04-2006, 01:17 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •