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  1. #181

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    It's been discussed over and over again what the differences are. There's a distinct difference between being part of a nonfiction/news/documentation video and being part of someone's fictional, artistic creation. People have a right to decide if they want to be part of the latter.

    Regarding the "why would you care about being on the film unless you're a criminal" argument - do you really think that's true? I have a friend who literally had to leave her state and change her name because she was in a domestic violence situation. If she were caught on film it could be dangerous for her for all sorts of reasons. Should she never be allowed to go in public because she might be filmed? She can avoid situations where filming is taking place if she KNOWS about them. Maybe some people don't want their children on tape in a film like this. Maybe some people don't want their images on film because they object to the film's content. They have the right to decide if they are going to be in a fictional film.

    Could this aforementioned friend still get caught on camera in someone's personal YouTube video of the park? Sure, but it's probably far less likely to be seen than a film.



    Being a poor starving artist is not an excuse for ethical breaches. LA is full of poor filmmakers who are working with one camera, volunteer crews, no filming permits, etc....who still manage to hire or recruit extras, give people the courtesy of letting them know they're being filmed for a movie, and compensate them in some way. The sad part about this is that if he'd put out a call for unpaid volunteer extras on craigslist he probably could have come up with a bunch of people who would have been happy to be in his film. But instead he decided to s***w over everyone who was in the park that day.

    This guy is trying to make his name off someone else's brand (Disney) and a lot of people who didn't consent to be a part of his work.

    As to the whole issue of making money off photos of the park - a couple of points there.

    1. Disney allows people to take photo/video for personal use, and doesn't have any ban or restriction on uploading it.
    2. A photo of a construction wall/etc. is depicting something as it is - ie, news reporting or documentation. It's not showing a fictional construct.
    3. Technically, Disney would be within their legal rights to shut down the videos on YouTube that show the rides, the ride music, etc. They don't, which shows they that have some tolerance. Again, though, a ride video is depicting the ride as it is - it's not adding something fictional or distorting the ride.
    4. As such, those videos do provide the sort of free advertising Disney actually likes.

    If someone were to, say, start selling a DVD of their ride videos I'm sure Disney would swoop right down on it.
    Ok, I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend with the criminal comment and I'm sorry about your friend. But like the post above me points out, how is this different than a picture from Fishbulb that has guests in it? I don't see any, especially when this is a video meant to display a person's talents as a storyteller and cinematographer, not as a way to aggressively take down Disney or make anyone upset.

  2. #182

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    I read about this when Dateline Disneyland tweeted it. Artsy AND filmed in secret AND at Disneyland? Sounds right up my alley, how cool!
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  3. #183

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    I've no particular interest in doing so. I do know that Disney has pulled a few videos of rides before they were opened and has also yanked some of their actual films off YouTube, but they allow a lot of others - the Horizons stuff, all sorts of ride videos, photos of backstage taken at RunDisney events, etc. - to remain. Clearly they're not so rabid about copyright protection that they're going to scream every time someone sets a video to "Under the Sea" or photographs a ride. I'm surprised they're letting someone sell park DVDs but if it's the park as it is, ie documentary/news, it's still not a threat to them.

    There's nothing inconsistent about that - Disney seems to be fine with things that don't distort their brand, and personal account of experiences in the park. They don't seem to be fine with things that violate their rules, exploit their guests and distort the brand. That's pretty much in line with every company.
    You obviously are not current with the 'preferred' treatment some in other social media circles are getting... Including commercial distribution and profiting from attraction videos and more... While at the same time Disney runs some off over trivial lens or tripod issues. Never mind the full exclusion of legit media and shutdown of other past activities
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  4. #184

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    You obviously are not current with the 'preferred' treatment some in other social media circles are getting... Including commercial distribution and profiting from attraction videos and more... While at the same time Disney runs some off over trivial lens or tripod issues. Never mind the full exclusion of legit media and shutdown of other past activities
    I obviously don't particularly care to stay up on all of it. It's Disney's park, it's private property, and they have the right to choose to enforce or not enforce the photo/video rules as they wish. Their own published regulations say that they get to decide who gets to do commercial filming at the resort. It's all at their discretion and that's their right. I'm sure they do give preferential treatment to some on social media. So do all of the other companies out there. I can think of at least two "unofficial fan websites" that are actually bankrolled by the products/actors/bands they feature.

  5. #185

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by The International View Post
    So, to recap:


    Some new construction at Disneyland (this is fine)


    In the background of this image from my upcoming film you'll see some of the treacherous villains! (this is morally repugnant)

    Really, I hope that guy in the blue shirt is okay with his image being used here... Fishbulb may have put him in serious danger by putting this image on the internet!
    Did every single person in that shot sign a waiver of liability BEFORE that photo was taken? If not, call the lawyers. There's money to be made ruining people's lives!

  6. #186

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Here is an excerpt from a video I posted earlier of an interview with the LA Times, where the lead actor describes how he had dialog with a cast member in the film as well as physically interacting with park guests who were not aware they were being filmed in a this movie by grabing unsuspecting young girls by the arm and turing them around when the lead actor was searching for his daughter. I don't see anyone would like to be grabbed by a total stranger for the sake of someone else's film. This is past simply background extras. When you have dialog with someone in a film, then it becomes a supporting role. With this kind of interaction and not being made aware of it? And with no release/wavier? I don't see how this can be justified no matter how you spin it.

    These people should have not only been told, but asked. But then the film could never have been made and these guys know it. Thats why they talk about "not getting caught".

    I'm just trying to put myself in the CM's and Park Guests shoes in how they will feel about being filmed in this way and on this level of public exposure. This film could get distribution and the writer says he hoping for it. Some will be fine with it, but some will be very upset due to privacy issues.

    These people have rights.






    Quote Originally Posted by Retrocool View Post
    Did every single person in that shot sign a waiver of liability BEFORE that photo was taken? If not, call the lawyers. There's money to be made ruining people's lives!
    These photos are used for news and commentary which fall under fair use.

  7. #187

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    I'm in the party of "this is wrong on quite a few levels." And my guess is it will probably be a crap movie anyway, just judging by the clip that was posted. At the same time, my curiosity is piqued to see if there is any ride footage in it. Damn these morals and their tearing me in two!

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  8. #188

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by orbitalpunk View Post
    Here is an excerpt from a video I posted earlier of an interview with the LA Times, where the lead actor describes how he had dialog with a cast member in the film as well as physically interacting with park guests who were not aware they were being filmed in a this movie by grabing unsuspecting young girls by the arm and turing them around when the lead actor was searching for his daughter. I don't see anyone would like to be grabbed by a total stranger for the sake of someone else's film. This is past simply background extras. When you have dialog with someone in a film, then it becomes a supporting role. With this kind of interaction and not being made aware of it? And with no release/wavier? I don't see how this can be justified no matter how you spin it.

    These people should have not only been told, but asked. But then the film could never have been made and these guys know it. Thats why they talk about "not getting caught".

    I'm just trying to put myself in the CM's and Park Guests shoes in how they will feel about being filmed in this way and on this level of public exposure. This film could get distribution and the writer says he hoping for it. Some will be fine with it, but some will be very upset due to privacy issues.

    These people have rights.


    Thank you for posting this. This really hits the nail on the head.

    I am sure it's easy to laugh and be dismissive about people's concern about how their images are used - until you end up on the receiving end of the exploitation. Or until you meet someone who actually has survived stalking or has some other legitimate reason to fear for their lives and safety. It stops being hyperbole then.

    I'm sure it's also easy to decide that these people should have happily worked for free in this guy's film - how would any of you like to work for free? Or be bilked into doing an unpaid job?

  9. #189

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    What's funny is, at one point I was trying to write a stage play partially set in Disneyland, and it had "Escape" in the title! It was called Escape from Trinaland. The main character (who was basically me) had a relationship with a psychologically abusive girlfriend, using the metaphor that she tried to make his life her own personal "theme park," while he fantasized about running away to Disneyland (which she had forbidden him to talk about). The story would be told in flashback from a trip to Disneyland when he got lost in Orange County and wound up on a nightmarishly endless Harbor Boulevard. There was also going to be a subplot in which an imaginary Walt Disney and Stephen Sondheim vied for his fan attention.

    But I never finished it...

    [/derail thread]

    Anyhow, I can see where some people might be upset if they were in it, but if they're just in the background, I don't see how this is any different than filming in public anywhere. Unless the people are directly involved in the movie (like some kind of Borat thing) in which case I imagine they would need permission. But I've never filmed anything. If you film an indie movie in Downtown LA, do you need the permission of everyone who walks by? (I guess the difference is that Disneyland is private property, but that would seem more like an issue of Disney vs. this guy).
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  10. #190

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by animagusurreal View Post
    If you film an indie movie in Downtown LA, do you need the permission of everyone who walks by? (I guess the difference is that Disneyland is private property, but that would seem more like an issue of Disney vs. this guy).
    the issue of 'right of publicity' does not change if you film in private or public - that is constant.

    What changes is what right do you have to film there to start with.. on public property, you can film without permission (but technically, you may be limited by permitting with the local gov), while on private property you are held by the whim of the property owner.
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  11. #191

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    Thank you for posting this. This really hits the nail on the head.

    I am sure it's easy to laugh and be dismissive about people's concern about how their images are used - until you end up on the receiving end of the exploitation. Or until you meet someone who actually has survived stalking or has some other legitimate reason to fear for their lives and safety. It stops being hyperbole then.

    I'm sure it's also easy to decide that these people should have happily worked for free in this guy's film - how would any of you like to work for free? Or be bilked into doing an unpaid job?
    Ok but if you have any idea about how the movie business works, you'll understand that this movie will probably not get a wide release, and nobody will see it besides people the director will privately show (similar to a home video taken by a family of tourists). Again, the man used Disneyland as a setting to show off his talents as a director and filmmaker. If he gets anywhere, his next project will be with a budget, with paid extras, and in a controlled environment. This was simply a jumping off point to demonstrate his talents. The way I see it, this is no different than someone posting their home videos of Disneyland on YouTube without people's consent, in that such videos are also used for gain (efforts to gain viewers and subscribers). Once you realize that this is a sort of platform for a hopeful filmmaker, not an evil moneymaking scheme, then I think you'll put the issue into perspective.

  12. #192

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    If he gets anywhere, his next project will be with a budget, with paid extras, and in a controlled environment. This was simply a jumping off point to demonstrate his talents. The way I see it, this is no different than someone posting their home videos of Disneyland on YouTube without people's consent, in that such videos are also used for gain (efforts to gain viewers and subscribers). Once you realize that this is a sort of platform for a hopeful filmmaker, not an evil moneymaking scheme, then I think you'll put the issue into perspective.
    the film had nearly a million dollar budget. These actors didn't work for free.. It was simply an indie film project. Certainly the people involved aspire to greater things, and hope this film helps their careers, etc.. but this is nothing like a home made movie you hope goes viral. These were professionals playing outside the normal lines.

    Did the guy pick Disney as part of an attention grabbing scheme? Maybe.. but which was bigger for him? The guerrilla aspect or the Disney aspect? We don't know.. but this was a professional film either way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
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  13. #193

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    the film had nearly a million dollar budget. These actors didn't work for free.. It was simply an indie film project. Certainly the people involved aspire to greater things, and hope this film helps their careers, etc.. but this is nothing like a home made movie you hope goes viral. These were professionals playing outside the normal lines.

    Did the guy pick Disney as part of an attention grabbing scheme? Maybe.. but which was bigger for him? The guerrilla aspect or the Disney aspect? We don't know.. but this was a professional film either way.
    Every film costs money. To buy the cameras, get the sound equipment, the editing software, and even the tickets to Disney can be factored into that relatively tiny budget. And his actors...well how else would you get people to be in your movie? You gotta pay em something!

    Paranormal Activity, for example, was originally meant to be remade into a higher budget feature once the studios saw it and hopefully liked it (its budget mainly went into refurbishing the house it took place in, so you can see how these million dollar budgets don't mean much). The only reason it came out the way it did was because Steven Spielberg liked it as it was. Still, it stands as a poignant example of what this filmmaker was no doubt trying to accomplish. He knows as well as you or I that movie theaters don't show guerilla-style films, and he knows he can't shoot at Disneyland. But he also knows that low-budget movies like Paranormal Activity, or El Mariachi by Robert Rodriguez, are often made simply for the sake of being able to show the studio big wigs something and saying 'here's what I can do', and hoping to make something out of it. And I could just as easily do that with a home video (of course, with much less chance for success).

  14. #194

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by DL Lover in LA View Post
    The problem is that you are essentially working without knowledge. If there was a sign saying that by entering a certain area you are giving permission to the production company to film you for free, that's one choice. But if you are not given a choice to be used for a commercially marketed product, that's another.

    When you walk into a theme park, you are allowing that theme park to use your image as you'd like without additional permission. That is a risk you are aware of. But the people who ended up making it in this film without knowing it were no aware of the content or the context that they were being used as.

    What if this was an adult film? If you were used in it without you knowing, would you be just fine with it? What if the person who was filmed is morally opposed to those types of films, but now they are a character in one?

    All I was saying about working is that I have worked background before in public settings (mainly colleges). Those of us hired to be there were paid nicely for doing so. And all the students at that college who were not paid were given the option to not be seen.

    If I ended up in this movie, I would have appreciated the option to not be seen or the knowledge of what they were doing.
    So I make a Youtube video of Mickey getting set on fire during fantasmic.....you a person I do not know screams, makes comments and are seen on my camera....can I not post the video now without your permission?

    Even though the video is not about you....its about Mickey..on fire..lol

  15. #195

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    This film should not be released. It's legal liability is unlimited. If the risk is taken, good luck for the filmmakers.

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