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  1. #196

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    You gotta pay em something!
    Now you are starting to understand.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  2. #197

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Ok but if you have any idea about how the movie business works, you'll understand that this movie will probably not get a wide release, and nobody will see it besides people the director will privately show (similar to a home video taken by a family of tourists). Again, the man used Disneyland as a setting to show off his talents as a director and filmmaker. If he gets anywhere, his next project will be with a budget, with paid extras, and in a controlled environment. This was simply a jumping off point to demonstrate his talents. The way I see it, this is no different than someone posting their home videos of Disneyland on YouTube without people's consent, in that such videos are also used for gain (efforts to gain viewers and subscribers). Once you realize that this is a sort of platform for a hopeful filmmaker, not an evil moneymaking scheme, then I think you'll put the issue into perspective.
    I know a lot about the film industry. And what I, and others here, have been trying to explain to you is that it doesn't matter that this isn't being distributed by a major studio. Nobody will see this film? Um, it's at Sundance, he wants it to be commercially distributed, and he's likely to send it to other festivals. He's putting it out there so people will see it. This is not a "jumping off point" from an amateur; it's exploitation from someone who HAS been around the film business long enough to know exactly how things work.

    It's also been explained over and over again how this is different from home movies at YouTube: intent, context and distribution.

    As mentioned, being a "hopeful filmmaker" with $0 budget is NOT an excuse to do this. Every student filmmaker, every indie filmmaker in LA, everyone who films in crowded ares GETS PERMISSION from their extras and day players. That's filmmaking 101. Plus, this guy had enough money to do greenscreen work and score the film...he wasn't working on a $0 budget by any means.

  3. #198

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    And his actors...well how else would you get people to be in your movie? You gotta pay em something!
    You do realize the extras and day players count as performers too, right? Same union (SAG -AFTRA), whether you are the star of the film, you say two lines, or you're just an unnamed extra walking in the background. So why is it OK to pay the principals and get their consent while tricking the under-fives and background to be in the film without their knowledge or consent?

  4. #199

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    You do realize the extras and day players count as performers too, right? Same union (SAG -AFTRA), whether you are the star of the film, you say two lines, or you're just an unnamed extra walking in the background. So why is it OK to pay the principals and get their consent while tricking the under-fives and background to be in the film without their knowledge or consent?
    Because this guy is not working with the SAG -AFTRA...he's paying someone to do him a favor by saying lines and acting in a way he wants them to. It's not like all the people enjoying their day at Disneyland are doing him some huge favor by minding their own business.

  5. #200

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    I know a lot about the film industry. And what I, and others here, have been trying to explain to you is that it doesn't matter that this isn't being distributed by a major studio. Nobody will see this film? Um, it's at Sundance, he wants it to be commercially distributed, and he's likely to send it to other festivals. He's putting it out there so people will see it. This is not a "jumping off point" from an amateur; it's exploitation from someone who HAS been around the film business long enough to know exactly how things work.

    It's also been explained over and over again how this is different from home movies at YouTube: intent, context and distribution.

    As mentioned, being a "hopeful filmmaker" with $0 budget is NOT an excuse to do this. Every student filmmaker, every indie filmmaker in LA, everyone who films in crowded ares GETS PERMISSION from their extras and day players. That's filmmaking 101. Plus, this guy had enough money to do greenscreen work and score the film...he wasn't working on a $0 budget by any means.
    You don't get paid to enter festivals. You get paid when someone likes your film and wants to distribute it. Or they like you and pay to have you make a legit movie. The thing is, you haven't even seen it but you somehow know that everyone in the park that day was explicitly seen in it...it is very possible to shoot in a crowded place without revealing identities of individual people not intended to be in the shot. Not to mention Modern Family did an episode at Disneyland...was everyone in the park that day paid extra because of the off-chance that they would appear ever so slightly on camera? I mean they added to the scenes because they gave a sense of crowdedness, so by your argument they should be getting paid right? Even when they blocked off sections for filming, people could walk by the 'sets' and possibly get on camera. These people were out of focus and not compensated. This could be the same deal.

    And agin, the whole point of this film is to tell a story. The filmmaker is not out to harm anyone or to tarnish Disney's brand. In fact, the way I see it he's benefitting a lot less than someone who takes pictures in the park (with other guests in them) unofficially and puts them up on this website.

  6. #201

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Because this guy is not working with the SAG -AFTRA...he's paying someone to do him a favor by saying lines and acting in a way he wants them to. It's not like all the people enjoying their day at Disneyland are doing him some huge favor by minding their own business.
    *sigh* the point is, they're all considered film employees, whether they are the stars or not. These actors were not "doing him a favor," they were paid to act in his film. So again, why is that OK for some of the performers and not others?

    And actually, yes he WAS working with SAG - AFTRA. The lead actors are ALL SAG - AFTRA members. You can't work in a film without union permission (or there are dire consequences), so they were all under SAG contracts.
    Last edited by Malina; 01-28-2013 at 11:51 AM.

  7. #202

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    You don't get paid to enter festivals. You get paid when someone likes your film and wants to distribute it. Or they like you and pay to have you make a legit movie. The thing is, you haven't even seen it but you somehow know that everyone in the park that day was explicitly seen in it...it is very possible to shoot in a crowded place without revealing identities of individual people not intended to be in the shot. Not to mention Modern Family did an episode at Disneyland...was everyone in the park that day paid extra because of the off-chance that they would appear ever so slightly on camera? I mean they added to the scenes because they gave a sense of crowdedness, so by your argument they should be getting paid right? Even when they blocked off sections for filming, people could walk by the 'sets' and possibly get on camera. These people were out of focus and not compensated. This could be the same deal.

    And agin, the whole point of this film is to tell a story. The filmmaker is not out to harm anyone or to tarnish Disney's brand. In fact, the way I see it he's benefitting a lot less than someone who takes pictures in the park (with other guests in them) unofficially and puts them up on this website.
    The interviews the filmmaker has given have said explicitly that there were at least some unknowing people who were seen on camera - both cast members, who had conversations with the actors on film, and children who were grabbed and turned around by the lead actor.

    The difference - and again, we've said this several times - is that when you film crowd scenes in public, it's Movies 101 to TELL PEOPLE and give them a chance to decide if they want to be there.

    When Modern Family was shot, I can GUARANTEE you that there were huge signs everywhere saying "we are filming ______ in this area. If you come into this area you are agreeing to be on camera for this project. If you do not wish to participate, please stay clear of this area today." Everyone who was on camera knew that filming was happening, and they consented to participate.

    Same with any other crowd scene you've ever seen in a film: if they're not paid extras, they have been fully informed that filming is taking place and are given the option to walk away and not be part of it. It's one thing to volunteer; it's another to be tricked into being part of something.

    It doesn't matter if the filmmaker was trying to tell a story. He sc***wed over a lot of people to do it. Period. You don't get to say, as a filmmaker, "I want a crowd and I'm too cheap/too unscrupulous to either hire extras, get consenting volunteers or let anyone know, so I'm just going to film this crowd without their knowledge or permission."
    Last edited by Malina; 01-28-2013 at 11:55 AM.

  8. #203

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    *sigh* the point is, they're all considered film employees, whether they are the stars or not. These actors were not "doing him a favor," they were paid to act in his film. So again, why is that OK for some of the performers and not others?
    ...because they aren't performing..?

  9. #204

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    The difference - and again, we've said this several times - is that when you film crowd scenes in public, it's Movies 101 to TELL PEOPLE and give them a chance to decide if they want to be there.

    When Modern Family was shot, I can GUARANTEE you that there were huge signs everywhere saying "we are filming ______ in this area. If you come into this area you are agreeing to be on camera for this project. If you do not wish to participate, please stay clear of this area today." Everyone who was on camera knew that filming was happening, and they consented to participate.

    Same with any other crowd scene you've ever seen in a film: if they're not paid extras, they have been fully informed that filming is taking place and are given the option to walk away and not be part of it. It's one thing to volunteer; it's another to be tricked into being part of something.

    It doesn't matter if the filmmaker was trying to tell a story. He sc***wed over a lot of people to do it. Period.
    Well I guess that's the difference between you and me. It would affect me in no way if I was involved in what might as well be this guy's home video because I'm not an integral part of it, was not forced to do anything, and will not be judged by it or remembered for it. It won't even make it to any 'real' movie theaters. Maybe I'm missing the little gear in my head that tells me that's wrong but whatever, it doesn't hurt anyone, affect anyone, or make anyone public. And I can't even stress to you enough how unless you've actually seen this film and know that there are people unwillingly on camera clear as day, then you can't really get too upset.

  10. #205

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    They even have photos of the Modern Family signs, in fact.

    Attachment 26937
    Attachment 26938

  11. #206

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    The thing is, you haven't even seen it but you somehow know that everyone in the park that day was explicitly seen in it...it is very possible to shoot in a crowded place without revealing identities of individual people not intended to be in the shot. Not to mention Modern Family did an episode at Disneyland...was everyone in the park that day paid extra because of the off-chance that they would appear ever so slightly on camera?
    Tyler, while your heart is in the right place and certainly free to the opinion that these people shouldn't care... your arguments of why are wrong and based on incorrect information.

    While we haven't seen the movie, we have seen the interviews of the actor and director, in which they describe interacting with day guests both inconsequentially and as part of the plot.. so there IS filming beyond just faceless crowds in the background.

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    I mean they added to the scenes because they gave a sense of crowdedness, so by your argument they should be getting paid right? Even when they blocked off sections for filming, people could walk by the 'sets' and possibly get on camera. These people were out of focus and not compensated. This could be the same deal.
    No it's not the same deal. Your modern family example, the people consented to participate and in turn consented to not be compensated. This example, the people not 'in on it' did not consent to either situation. The legality, and morality, are both fundamentally different.

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    And agin, the whole point of this film is to tell a story. The filmmaker is not out to harm anyone or to tarnish Disney's brand. In fact, the way I see it he's benefitting a lot less than someone who takes pictures in the park (with other guests in them) unofficially and puts them up on this website.
    When someone on this website posts photos of the latest construction, and becomes a headline in newspapers across the country, gets numerous interview requests, and gets put on stage for the world to see.. you let us know.

    But again - your comparison to 'dateline disney' or equivalent may be 'equal' in your mind is NOT equal in the eyes of the law OR ethics. So it's your opinion and nothing more. You're free to it, but it doesn't make it 'correct'.
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


    Am I evil? yes, I am
    Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

  12. #207

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Well I guess that's the difference between you and me. It would affect me in no way if I was involved in what might as well be this guy's home video because I'm not an integral part of it, was not forced to do anything, and will not be judged by it or remembered for it. It won't even make it to any 'real' movie theaters. Maybe I'm missing the little gear in my head that tells me that's wrong but whatever, it doesn't hurt anyone, affect anyone, or make anyone public. And I can't even stress to you enough how unless you've actually seen this film and know that there are people unwillingly on camera clear as day, then you can't really get too upset.
    The filmmaker has SAID there are people unwillingly/unwittingly on camera. The actors talked to people and put that dialogue in the film. How clear can that be?

    If you honestly don't think that people should be compensated or consent to being filmed for commercial movie projects - and you don't see it as a huge breach of ethics - well, no, I guess there's no way to convince you as such. You might feel differently when you're the one s***wed over someday, or tricked into doing a job without pay, and someone comes up to you and says "what's the big deal?"

  13. #208

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post

    When someone on this website posts photos of the latest construction, and becomes a headline in newspapers across the country, gets numerous interview requests, and gets put on stage for the world to see.. you let us know.

    But again - your comparison to 'dateline disney' or equivalent may be 'equal' in your mind is NOT equal in the eyes of the law OR ethics. So it's your opinion and nothing more. You're free to it, but it doesn't make it 'correct'.
    But what's the difference between being seen on a website or being seen in a film festival? In fact, film festivals are much more exclusive and whoever is in a little film like that is much less likely to be seen by the public than a picture on a free website. And although I did not know about such interviews, the point still stands...pictures, videos on YouTube, a film at Sundance...all pictures of people unwillingly available to the public domain.

  14. #209

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    The filmmaker has SAID there are people unwillingly/unwittingly on camera. The actors talked to people and put that dialogue in the film. How clear can that be?

    If you honestly don't think that people should be compensated or consent to being filmed for commercial movie projects - and you don't see it as a huge breach of ethics - well, no, I guess there's no way to convince you as such. You might feel differently when you're the one s***wed over someday, or tricked into doing a job without pay, and someone comes up to you and says "what's the big deal?"
    No, I don't see the need to be compensated because no one went out of their way to be in this movie besides the core actors. What it sounds like is sour grapes because someone may (but probably won't) get somewhat famous because of a film that casually features unknowing guests in it. Come on...should people get paid to be unwillingly on the news then? News channels are out to make a profit too. I get it if you think it's totally wrong to ever be on camera ever but look around this website or YouTube, it happens...a lot. If there's an issue where you seriously think this guy owes people something for essentially doing nothing then...I just don't get it.

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    If there's an issue where you seriously think this guy owes people something for essentially doing nothing then...I just don't get it.
    How were the unpaid/unconsenting/uninformed people doing nothing?

    THE ACTORS...INTERACTED...WITH...THEM...ON...CAMERA... WITHOUT...TELLING...THEM.


    It sure sounds like they were doing something and not just casually walking through the background unnoticed. They were featured, front and center.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

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