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  1. #211

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    No, I don't see the need to be compensated because no one went out of their way to be in this movie besides the core actors. What it sounds like is sour grapes because someone may (but probably won't) get somewhat famous because of a film that casually features unknowing guests in it. Come on...should people get paid to be unwillingly on the news then? News channels are out to make a profit too. I get it if you think it's totally wrong to ever be on camera ever but look around this website or YouTube, it happens...a lot. If there's an issue where you seriously think this guy owes people something for essentially doing nothing then...I just don't get it.
    You know I think I'm hitting a brick wall in this discussion. All of these points have already been fully addressed above. I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it to you for a 100th time because it's all in this thread already. Basic points for review:

    1. There is a difference between an artistic film and a news clip/youtube home video.
    2. We've established that this is an artistic film and not a news clip - it's at Sundance, etc. This is also a professional effort - the filmmaker used SAG actors.
    3. All people who appear on camera in artistic films are considered performers whether they are starring, have one line, or are in the background.
    4. It is a requirement to inform ALL who appear in artistic films that they will be on camera, whether they have one line or 100. This is always done by filmmakers on every level.
    5. Not doing #4 is a breach of ethics. You don't get to put people in your artistic film without their consent. If you do, they have every right to sue you and block distribution of your film.
    6. It is also considered customary and ethical to pay performers in artistic films - both stars and background. If they are not getting paid, they still KNOW about the film and have consented to be a part of it.
    Last edited by Malina; 01-28-2013 at 12:37 PM.

  2. #212

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    How were the unpaid/unconsenting/uninformed people doing nothing?

    THE ACTORS...INTERACTED...WITH...THEM...ON...CAMERA... WITHOUT...TELLING...THEM.


    It sure sounds like they were doing something and not just casually walking through the background unnoticed. They were featured, front and center.
    Borat, anyone?

  3. #213

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    You do realize the extras and day players count as performers too, right? Same union (SAG -AFTRA), whether you are the star of the film, you say two lines, or you're just an unnamed extra walking in the background. So why is it OK to pay the principals and get their consent while tricking the under-fives and background to be in the film without their knowledge or consent?
    What if a film, being done for personal reasons, had performers that weren't paid (my brother, friend's sister, etc.). If no one was being paid, where does that put the issue? No paid principles, no paid extras or day players. Everyone involved just doing it because it was fun.

  4. #214

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    You know I think I'm hitting a brick wall in this discussion. All of these points have already been fully addressed above. I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it to you for a 100th time because it's all in this thread already. Basic points for review:

    1. There is a difference between an artistic film and a news clip/youtube home video.
    2. We've established that this is an artistic film and not a news clip - it's at Sundance, etc. This is also a professional effort - the filmmaker used SAG actors.
    3. All people who appear on camera in artistic films are considered performers whether they are starring, have one line, or are in the background.
    4. It is a requirement to inform ALL who appear in artistic films that they will be on camera, whether they have one line or 100. This is always done by filmmakers on every level.
    5. Not doing #4 is a breach of ethics. You don't get to put people in your artistic film without their consent. If you do, they have every right to sue you and block distribution of your film.
    6. It is also considered customary and ethical to pay performers in artistic films - both stars and background. If they are not getting paid, they still KNOW about the film and have consented to be a part of it.
    While there may be some "legal jargon" lock for the term "artistic film", I believe that many consider the videos they create as "artistic film", even if it's just their kid's first visit to Disneyland.

    But, when you just take the very vague, blurred vision look at the results of all those public exposures that the various "productions" (feature movie, news report, flash mob video, guerrilla movie or any of the thousands of other means of getting an unknowing person's presence exposed to the public via the internet or other means) may result in, it's difficult to draw a straight line in the sand.

    Yes, there are situations where the legal issues come into play (and the OT film is probably one of them), but everything can't be painted with the same broad brush. Your focus on the Industry aspects limits your appreciation for efforts that may be made to achieve similar level of artistic quality in an individual effort without going though all the professional Industry hoops.

  5. #215

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    For the definition of "artistic film", why didn't they consider Parody instead, which would sidestep some concerns about using copyrighted material.

    And they could have used actors for the guests standing in-line.

  6. #216

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Borat, anyone?
    Which was also why they have been sued many times.

    In those cases, the people do know they are being filmed - but are often mislead to why they are being filmed and how it will be used. Not that they are being filmed without knowledge.
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  7. #217

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    This guy sounds like a real creep. I hope Disney takes action against him. The film sounds awful. If you are going to go to the lengths to do a film like this, at least have a good plot.

  8. #218

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by DLFan1995 View Post
    What if a film, being done for personal reasons, had performers that weren't paid (my brother, friend's sister, etc.). If no one was being paid, where does that put the issue? No paid principles, no paid extras or day players. Everyone involved just doing it because it was fun.
    That's not the case here in this particular film, but that happens. People want to make a film so they round up willing friends and accomplices. Student filmmakers rarely have enough money to offer more than lunch and thanks to those involved.

    However, notice the word "willing" there...you still tell those involved in the film that they are going to be IN the film and what it's about, right? Even if you're not paying anyone you're still letting them know what you're doing. So those friends and accomplices are voluntarily deciding to participate.

  9. #219

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinkbelle View Post
    This guy sounds like a real creep. I hope Disney takes action against him. The film sounds awful. If you are going to go to the lengths to do a film like this, at least have a good plot.
    So if this was this movie had a plot you like more you'd be ok with it.....

  10. #220

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    I think what it comes down to is if this guy made this movie and kept it to himself (and maybe shared it with some friends and family), then it would be one thing (still not right, but nobody would have known about it).

    Since he chose to go ahead and submit it to major film festivals for maximum exposure, he needs to face the consequences of not following the rules and guidelines (set by both Disney and SAG-AFTRA).

    If this was just something on YouTube, yes, I'd be pissed if I was in it, but understand that maybe there were not trying to be professional about it. Clearly this filmmaker was and was just trying to see if he could get away with things.

    Something else to note to everyone who says that those people used without their knowledge weren't acting: if you improvise something in a filmed project, under SAG-AFTRA guidelines you must be compensated for contributing to the script. A friend of mine just got something like $300 for improvisational lines on a commercial. It's also against union rules to ask an actor to improv.

  11. #221

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    You guys just don't get it, nonfictional, educational, private or informative use would be covered in in fair use, this film is a commercial venture which puts it under an entirely different set of rules, on top of which it used members of the Screen Actors Guild which means that all extras and but players are required to be paid scale, then there is the fact that he used unknowing guests and cast members as bit players in said commercial venture in violation of Guild rules as well as various laws and rules and regulations regarding filming.


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  12. #222

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly


    OK. I'm going to chime in on this one. I think this might be post #3 from me but I usually don't have a lot to contribute (living in Utah). I actually saw the film last Saturday. I liked it. I'm a fairly big Disney fan (I try to visit Disneyland at least once a year) so it caught my interest. I also like underground films (Blue Velvet and Donnie Darko are two of my favorite movies). This is a underground film about the dark side of Disney.

    No, it does not shine a favorable light on the Disney Corporation. Yes it is a weird, underground film. It was shot in both Disneyland and Disney World. The movie is only supposed to take place in Disney World but I was able to tell which scenes were shot in which park since I'm so familiar with Disneyland. There are a TON of scenes shot on the rides (Dumbo, Snow White's Scary Adventures, Small World, Buzz Lightyear Astro Blasters, and a bunch of rides at Epcot).

    I read through this thread before I went to see the movie. I was also interested in how the "extras" would be used in the movie. In my opinion, everyone is getting upset over nothing. Not one "extra" is caught on film talking or is even in a shot for more than 2 or 3 seconds. I don't know that I could identify any of the "extras" in a photo lineup if my life depended on it and I was purposefully watching for them in the film. There are a couple of scenes that show Castmembers for more than a few seconds. Regular park guests? Not so much. They are there in the background but aren't part of the story. The scenes where the main character is looking for his daughter he does grab a couple of random people but it happens so fast I don't think that you could identify one of them. I can see how people would be upset being used as extras but I agree with the people that pointed out the weekly update. I don't think that it is any different.

    This is not a mainstream movie. I can't see it ever getting a theatrical release. The only comment I've heard from Disney is that they are "aware of the movie". I'm sure that they just want it to go away. If they sue the filmmaker they will surely be giving it a ton of publicity and stir up immense interest in the film. Somehow I imagine that they would be a bit upset about some of the scenes. There is a scene where one of the characters dresses up like Malefecent and kidnaps the main character's daughter. Another scene where after the main character dies (after making a huge mess in the bathroom) the Disney cleanup crew (with a big Mickey Mouse on their jumpsuits) cleans up the bathroom to get it ready for the next guest. There is also innuendo that the princesses are hired out by Asian businessmen as high-priced call girls. I also wasn't aware until now that the turkey legs were actually emu.

    After the film the director and three of the actors had a Q & A session. It was my impression that they did not "bring the film to Sundance to sell". He actually mentioned that he was surprised to be invited to Sundance and thought that the festival was more commercial. He was asked several times if he would be willing to "give the film away" in order to get it released and he said that he would. He got the money to make the film from his grandparents.

    It is a very weird toward the end and I would really like to see it again. There was all kinds of strangeness involving using his imagination and the Siemens Corporation (all under the Epcot ball before it exploded). It is definitely not a film for Disney's target audience. Hopefully it gets a small, quiet direct to DVD release so that those who want to see it can and those who don't can ignore it.

    Sorry for the long ramble. I can finally contribute to the boards! If you have any questions about the film I can try to answer them.

  13. #223

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    i've only skimmed this thread so maybe its been brought up before, but why have all the attacks been at the filmmaker & not at sundance? (not saying they should be attacked, i'm one of those that doesn't mind this film being made.) they are the ones that accepted the film into the festival, & they obviously had to know that the film surpassed a few legal issues. if this guy made this film & just showed it to friends would anyone have any issues with it?

    ^ & it looks like the argument about park guests being 'featured' in shots can be put to rest, we have confirmation from someone that has actually seen the film that that is not the case.

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by thedustycoyote View Post
    ^ & it looks like the argument about park guests being 'featured' in shots can be put to rest, we have confirmation from someone that has actually seen the film that that is not the case.
    Not when we have confirmation from the filmmaker who has stated in interviews that guests and cast members were seen on camera, interacting with the actors in the film.
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  15. #225

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by thedustycoyote View Post
    i've only skimmed this thread so maybe its been brought up before, but why have all the attacks been at the filmmaker & not at sundance? (not saying they should be attacked, i'm one of those that doesn't mind this film being made.) they are the ones that accepted the film into the festival, & they obviously had to know that the film surpassed a few legal issues. if this guy made this film & just showed it to friends would anyone have any issues with it?

    ^ & it looks like the argument about park guests being 'featured' in shots can be put to rest, we have confirmation from someone that has actually seen the film that that is not the case.
    He said they were in the shot for 2-3 seconds. That's enough to recognize a face for me. So this may be different for each person. And he said park guests were bing grabbed in the film, but that it happened "so fast". Editing could have added to that. I doesn't really matter how fast it was. Thats somebody's daughter, sister or girlfriend and you shouldn't grab anyone not privy to the situation, period.

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