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  1. #241

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Borat, anyone?
    And Borat ended up in litigation too.

    Not many here are saying that they aren't curious about the movie. I would like to see a few minutes of it out of pure, morbid curiosity. But more than a few, like me, who actually work in IP management, are saying that there are adequate grounds for both Disney and the unwitting supporting players (who were captured without their express consent) to sue the filmmaker(s) on several different fronts.

    It will happen and only then will we know whether there is some precedent or if this is just another cut-and-dry case that falls under easily determined brand / trademark / defamation / infringement and / or privacy laws.
    ~ Erik








  2. #242

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    It was just said that this was not in the movie. These parts were obviously edited out. I mean you have a person who saw the film first hand and you are still arguing about it.
    According to te person who was posting about seeing the movie, there was interaction with Disney workers.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  3. #243

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    According to te person who was posting about seeing the movie, there was interaction with Disney workers.
    First of all, it was said that these people could not be readily identified. Second, another poster also pointed out that many of the 'cast members' were listed on the film's cast list as actual actors. So either we've got some pretty successful Disney workers with Imdb pages, or you've got nothing left to argue about.

  4. #244

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Olson View Post
    And Borat ended up in litigation too.
    Ahh yes this film.....while it may have lead to some problems...it was still released...it still made money..and it's out on DVD now....

    I don't understand how he can get away with it but a smaller indy guy can't...

  5. #245

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    I wish that more people could see this movie so there could be more of a discussion about the actual movie. After seeing the cast and crew list I'm pretty sure that the Castmember that watched the little girl get slapped was an actor. There was a scene, however, where a Castmember was closing the gate on the Monorail. I don't think there would be any way to get that shot without filming an actual Castmember.

    I also am still wondering about my picture on Splash Mountain and Space Mountain. I don't remember seeing a sign that said that I would be filmed. I didn't sign a waiver or receive compensation. My image was displayed on a screen without my consent. My image was clearly used for commercial purposes because Disney then tried to sell my picture to total strangers that also appeared in the picture. I was never given the opportunity to "opt out". Should I be outraged?

  6. #246

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by bwillard View Post
    I also am still wondering about my picture on Splash Mountain and Space Mountain. I don't remember seeing a sign that said that I would be filmed. I didn't sign a waiver or receive compensation. My image was displayed on a screen without my consent. My image was clearly used for commercial purposes because Disney then tried to sell my picture to total strangers that also appeared in the picture. I was never given the opportunity to "opt out". Should I be outraged?
    Repeating what has been posted many times before, by purchasing a Disneyland ticket and entering Disney property you agree to Disney's terms and conditions, which include being filmed and photographed by Disney for whatever purpose Disney specifies. You may opt out by avoiding those areas where Disney is photographing its guests (in addition to the ongoing photography at Splash and Space, filming areas for specific projects are signed), or by not purchasing the ticket and by not entering Disney property.

    This does not include being filmed or photographed by third parties for commercial projects (like Moore's), and especially by third parties who do so in secret (like Moore).


    Quote Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    I don't understand how he [Borat] can get away with it but a smaller indy guy can't...
    A million-dollar indy film that is scored by a symphony orchestra isn't the work of some "poor little smaller starving artist guy." The myth of Moore as the pure-hearted artiste whose only concern is to make an artistic statement is even more nauseating than the PR bs that Disney spews about itself (if that's even possible!).

    As has been said before, if Moore hadn't punked the Disney Corporation, he wouldn't even be on the radar.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 01-30-2013 at 09:00 AM.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  7. #247

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    So what you are saying is that when I enter the park there is a reasonable expectation that I will be filmed while on Disney property? In my opinion that will kill any lawsuits brought by individuals against this film.

    It will be interesting to see how Disney reacts. It's a real can of worms. If they sue and block release of the film it will create publicity way beyond what the filmmaker would be capable of generating himself. We'll have to wait and see what happens...

    What if Disney purchases the rights to the film. According to the following

    Repeating what has been posted many times before, by purchasing a Disneyland ticket and entering Disney property you agree to Disney's terms and conditions, which include being filmed and photographed by Disney for whatever purpose Disney specifies.
    it would be OK to release the film without paying the "extras".

  8. #248

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by bwillard View Post
    So what you are saying is that when I enter the park there is a reasonable expectation that I will be filmed while on Disney property?
    That's not even remotely what I said.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  9. #249

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Disney can say they have the right to film you, but Disney can't make you part of their marketing campaign without getting a release. In crowd shots, sure. If you're featured in a testimonial, they should ask for a release. If you're photographed on a ride enjoying yourself, that's a bit different. They should get a release if your image is reproduced for a publication, but not if they are just selling one-off snap shot.

    Despite any terms and conditions, you always have recourse if you think your rights are being violated. A celebrity have greater protections in some areas, but not in all areas. For example, a celebrity can sue if their professionally taken image is used for marketing; however, there is less rights if their image is taken candidly and reproduced for a tabloid and treated as "news".

    I'm not a lawyer, but if you're concerned, best to seek advice from a lawyer. Usually a letter from a lawyer is enough to stop the worst abuses.

  10. #250

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    First of all, it was said that these people could not be readily identified.
    Based on one viewer's perspective. A viewer who did not know these and was only watching the film once. That doesn't rule out these people being recognized by someone who does know them, someone watching the film for a second time, or someone who can pick up facial characteristics faster than this viewer did.

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Second, another poster also pointed out that many of the 'cast members' were listed on the film's cast list as actual actors. So either we've got some pretty successful Disney workers with Imdb pages, or you've got nothing left to argue about.
    A. The lead actor and the filmmaker both confirmed that they interacted on film with workers without informing them or getting their consent.

    B. We don't know what "cast members" are listed on IMDB or what roll they have.

    Nothing was ruled out by the IMDB listing. Therefore, there is still plenty to argue about.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  11. #251

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Surely there must be some way we can prove that this guy is a bad director and a terrible human!

    Again I find most of the arguments against this fall a bit flat. This is 2013. What about a flash mob? What about what happened to this dude? Technology is changing the rules and failure to recognize that is very silly. At this point I'm done with the thread; the anti-Escape From Tomorrow squad has nothing to fall back on except pointing fingers at a rulebook like some irate school counselor. As I've said before there are a ton of interesting questions that this film asks, and most of you seem interested in none of them.

    Good art doesn't necessarily follow the rules, y'all.

  12. #252

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by bwillard View Post
    So what you are saying is that when I enter the park there is a reasonable expectation that I will be filmed while on Disney property? In my opinion that will kill any lawsuits brought by individuals against this film.
    Nope - as has been said before in this thread, you are agreeing and expecting to be filmed BY Disney FOR Disney purposes, and even then, they are very clear about informing you when they are filming. That is very specific.

    You're not agreeing or expecting to be filmed for other filmmaker's purposes.

    As for the examples given above - what of them? When you're in a flash mob you actually consent to use of your image. Any group that's putting together a flash mob has you sign a release so it can be taped/put on YouTube etc. Any time you enter a race there's also usually something warning you about photographers. It's in the race release you sign.

    Good artists are brash and bold...but you can do that while being ethical and respecting other people's rights. Yes, this guy broke a lot of rules: Disney's rules; California's privacy laws; SAG-AFTRA's rules. For the latter? Hey, if you are a serious filmmaker and you're putting your stuff at Sundance it's expected you're going to toe the line with SAG. It's how it is and you don't cross them. Frankly if anything comes of lawsuits/sanctions/etc. it's more likely to be from SAG than Disney.

    More than that, though, he made this film on the backs of people who didn't have a chance to opt out. However we want to frame it, he used the cast members and crowds at Disneyland to pull off his film. Exploitation of other human beings is not something to applaud.

    Maybe it's not a big deal for you personally if you end up on film in this. It might be a big deal to others - and you don't get to tell them that they shouldn't be upset about how THEIR image is used. That's their choice. And that's what was lost here, wasn't it? Everyone who was involuntarily put on film lost their choice in the matter.
    Last edited by Malina; 01-30-2013 at 09:17 PM.

  13. #253

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by The International View Post
    Good art doesn't necessarily follow the rules, y'all.
    Rules of form and function, no. If someone wants to make a sculpture out of dirty underwear instead of an established sculpting medium, more power to them.

    However, even art has to obey the law. Therefore, if underwear sculpting was illegal, the artist would have to obey the law and pick some other outrageous medium to make his sculpture that is legal.

    This guy should have worked within legal parameters when making his film or not made it at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    It might be a big deal to others - and you don't get to tell them that they shouldn't be upset about how THEIR image is used.
    Well said.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  14. #254

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    However, even art has to obey the law.
    No, it doesn't. Artists have been pushing the boundaries of law since the beginning of structured society as we know it.

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    Re: "Escape from Tomorrow" movie filmed in Disneyland secretly

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    However, even art has to obey the law.
    Exactly right. Artists have every right to violate artistic conventions -- to rip aside creative boundaries, shred artistic norms, and to do so as outrageously as they wish. But artists have no more right than anyone else to trespass, invade privacy, beat up on their spouses, drive while drunk or do any of the numerous other behaviors which over the centuries have been excused by "artistic temperament" -- an ancient stereotype which serves society poorly, and artists least of all. For those who make their living from their art, the "artist" defense of Moore's behavior is a lame joke.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


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