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  1. #16

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    Re: MONORAIL SHOWDOWN (Educated Debate)

    Should have said "7/8 scale compared to the prototypes Walt Disney saw in Europe" i.e. "regular" sized transit. But you're right, I guess all of the others are 1/8 bigger than the original!

  2. #17

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    Re: MONORAIL SHOWDOWN (Educated Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kimura View Post
    I'm only familiar with Disneyland and WDW.

    From an aesthetic standpoint, Disneyland's Mark VIIs are nice. From a reliability and quality standpoint, not so much. I can't keep track of the number of times I've been there and discovered only one monorail operating. Fit and finish is pretty bad, too. There's a lot of warped paneling throughout the trains. This is especially noticeable if you look on the edge of the ceiling when you ride in the nose or tail.
    They usually only operate 1 monorail on less crowded days or when there is not much demand for the monorail. If lines start to get long or the park is pretty busy, they'll operate two monorails at once. I believe due to the track layout and having two stations, they have a maximum capacity of two monorails operating on the track at once

  3. #18

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    Re: MONORAIL SHOWDOWN (Educated Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by DonaldMissingPants View Post
    They usually only operate 1 monorail on less crowded days or when there is not much demand for the monorail. If lines start to get long or the park is pretty busy, they'll operate two monorails at once. I believe due to the track layout and having two stations, they have a maximum capacity of two monorails operating on the track at once
    My problem is with your idea is where to put a second platform at either stations and should the Round House get exstended and should two-sided doors be placed on the trains so they both platforms could be used for faster exiting?
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  4. #19

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    Re: MONORAIL SHOWDOWN (Educated Debate)

    They used to run more than two but I am not sure if they can do that anymore.
    In any case, if they changed the track a little bit and added a third station, they would then have three block sections meaning that they could definitely run three. Some stations would just have longer waits.

    I am not sure if it has been said yet but the real issue with having the train go into the other park is ticketing. How would you monitor who got on and off making sure that only park hoppers got off at each station? It could be done by ticketing to get off the platform or keeping certain cars sealed at each station, but the logistics and customer communication issues only add to the reasons not to do it.

    Furthermore, with a stop at DCA, the trip would become so long that walking would be a better option to the hotel from Disneyland, or to DCA from the Hotel.

  5. #20

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    Re: MONORAIL SHOWDOWN (Educated Debate)

    ^They could always release the people for DCA outside the gate in the esplande. That way the Monorail would be a DL attraction only and Park Hopers could ride from Hotel, to DL, than to DCA.
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  6. #21

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    Re: MONORAIL SHOWDOWN (Educated Debate)

    The issue there is that the trip between DTD and the esplanade would be so short and it is already a very short walk. Reversing the route would sort of help bit would it be worth it?

  7. #22

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    Re: MONORAIL SHOWDOWN (Educated Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    The issue there is that the trip between DTD and the esplanade would be so short and it is already a very short walk. Reversing the route would sort of help bit would it be worth it?
    Ehh.. It would help for the people going back to the hotel but not to Tommorowland because the route to the park is shortest. The way they have it is because that would mean going all of DtD then through DCA until we hit Disneyland. I think there is more demand going to the park then coming out of it.
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  8. #23

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    Re: MONORAIL SHOWDOWN (Educated Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by brianpinsky View Post
    My problem is with your idea is where to put a second platform at either stations and should the Round House get exstended and should two-sided doors be placed on the trains so they both platforms could be used for faster exiting?
    Disneyland's monorail system doesn't need two sided platforms and double sided doors because there aren't that many people that use the monorail for transport, unlike WDW. The current monorail system works fine as the wait time is usually only about 5 minutes. I think that the Disneyland Monorail System is used more for show as an attraction than it is used as a massive transportation system at WDW.

  9. #24

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    Re: MONORAIL SHOWDOWN (Educated Debate)

    I've always loved the Disneyland Monorail. In my life I've ridden the Mark III, Mark V, and Mark VII trains. I'm so used to Disneyland's monorails that when I use the monorail in Las Vegas, I usually find myself ducking my head when getting on or off because I'm just used to doing that with Disneyland's monorail.

    Here's a fun fact about the Las Vegas Monorail! When the Disney World Mark IVs were replaced by the Mark VI trains, Coral and Lime (the youngest in the fleet since they came online to handle the new EPCOT loop's capacity demands) were the last ones to be replaced. Where did they go after retirement? To Las Vegas! They were part of the pilot of the Las Vegas Monorail, traveling everyday between MGM Grand and Bally's. They were given new MGM and Bally's paint jobs (not sure which was which). They were retired when the system closed to expand to the current 4 mile system and replaced by the current fleet of Bombardier trains. I loved those old Mark IV trains. Even in Vegas they still felt Disney, even though I didn't know those were retired WDW monorails at the time. The old roundhouse still stands behind Bally's just north of the station.

  10. #25

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    Re: MONORAIL SHOWDOWN (Educated Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by DonaldMissingPants View Post
    They usually only operate 1 monorail on less crowded days or when there is not much demand for the monorail. If lines start to get long or the park is pretty busy, they'll operate two monorails at once. I believe due to the track layout and having two stations, they have a maximum capacity of two monorails operating on the track at once
    I am actually quite familiar with the operation. The system was designed to handle up to three monorails for maximum efficiency. That hasn't happened since the late 90s when the Mark V fleet size started decreasing in order to build the Mark VIIs which use the main bodies (not the chassis) of their predecessor.

    Back when Disneyland had a fleet of four Mark V monorails, they would operate three trains during peak periods such as summers and holidays. The cast members back then were well trained at quickly loading guests to minimize delays, so three trains worked quite well. Non-peak periods had two trains, and special events or private parties had one train.

    Now that their fleet size has been reduced by one, Disneyland no longer operates three monorails, but they do continue to operate two monorails daily which means about a five minute wait between trains (assuming efficient station load times). With only one monorail running, it can be up to a 10+ minute wait. During the off-season, one monorail sometimes isn't enough to keep the wait time at a minimum depending on the time of day.

    Lastly, Disneyland usually does not add or remove monorails based on demand throughout the day. I believe this was done in the past, but Mark VII design flaws have made the process adding and removing vehicles less efficient.

    I'm not sure if you've ever been on the monorail platform as a train was going offline or coming online after a repair. These days, they actually have to evacuate the platforms during this process because it now takes longer than it used to. When Disneyland had the Mark Vs, the operation hardly skipped a beat when adding or removing a monorail. Therefore, the clearing of guests from the platforms wasn't necessary.

  11. #26

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    Re: MONORAIL SHOWDOWN (Educated Debate)

    I would be very interested in the nightly routine or cleaning/servicing/maintaince done the the trains at the round house. And how does the windows work on the Mark VIIs since on rainy days they don't seem to close them and only the center bech is dry?
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  12. #27

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    Re: MONORAIL SHOWDOWN (Educated Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kimura View Post
    When Disneyland had the Mark Vs, the operation hardly skipped a beat when adding or removing a monorail. Therefore, the clearing of guests from the platforms wasn't necessary.
    Except that one time when they backed blue off the beam right onto the train tracks.

  13. #28

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    Re: MONORAIL SHOWDOWN (Educated Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kimura View Post
    I am actually quite familiar with the operation. The system was designed to handle up to three monorails for maximum efficiency. That hasn't happened since the late 90s when the Mark V fleet size started decreasing in order to build the Mark VIIs which use the main bodies (not the chassis) of their predecessor.

    Back when Disneyland had a fleet of four Mark V monorails, they would operate three trains during peak periods such as summers and holidays. The cast members back then were well trained at quickly loading guests to minimize delays, so three trains worked quite well. Non-peak periods had two trains, and special events or private parties had one train.

    Now that their fleet size has been reduced by one, Disneyland no longer operates three monorails, but they do continue to operate two monorails daily which means about a five minute wait between trains (assuming efficient station load times). With only one monorail running, it can be up to a 10+ minute wait. During the off-season, one monorail sometimes isn't enough to keep the wait time at a minimum depending on the time of day.

    Lastly, Disneyland usually does not add or remove monorails based on demand throughout the day. I believe this was done in the past, but Mark VII design flaws have made the process adding and removing vehicles less efficient.

    I'm not sure if you've ever been on the monorail platform as a train was going offline or coming online after a repair. These days, they actually have to evacuate the platforms during this process because it now takes longer than it used to. When Disneyland had the Mark Vs, the operation hardly skipped a beat when adding or removing a monorail. Therefore, the clearing of guests from the platforms wasn't necessary.
    Well written post Kimura! A very accurate history of Disneyland's monorail operations and the number of trains that they simultaneously ran in the first 3+ decades, vs. the downgraded operations they've had in the last two decades. The efficiency and reliability of the former system over the latter had to be experienced (e.g. as a pre-90s DLH guest using the monorails for transport) to believe how far the standards have slid.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 02-05-2013 at 03:50 PM.
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  14. #29

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    Re: MONORAIL SHOWDOWN (Educated Debate)

    I agree, that was a very well written post.
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  15. #30

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    Re: MONORAIL SHOWDOWN (Educated Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Well written post Kimura! A very accurate history of Disneyland's monorail operations and the number of trains that they simultaneously ran in the first 3+ decades, vs. the downgraded operations they've had in the last two decades. The efficiency and reliability of the former system over the latter had to be experienced (e.g. as a pre-90s DLH guest using the monorails for transport) to believe how far the standards have slid.
    Thank you. I'm right there with you. I feel that people these days just aren't aware of how the Disneyland Monorail has gotten worse over the past two decades. A lot of it has to do with the Mark VIIs themselves which have so many quality and reliability problems. One of the issues I referenced previously was how the process of adding and removing a monorail takes longer now than with the Mark Vs. The Mark Vs were given a maximum speed of 3 MPH between the track switch and the shop. When the Mark VIIs were introduced, they had to cut that speed down to 1.5 MPH because they found the chassis were hitting and scraping the concrete beamway! The difference between 1.5 MPH and 3 MPH may not sound like much, but trust me, it is SLOW enough to require clearing the platforms to keep guests from waiting too long.

    Back when they ran three monorails, cast members really had to stay on their toes to keep the operation moving. It seems now that they no longer have this fire under their feet, there is no longer any sense of urgency to get even their two trains moving as quickly as possible. Next time you are at the Downtown Disney station, observe the loading process. Especially during the after-dinner rush. I often find that cast members these days simply take their time loading before sending the train on its way. The next train into the Downtown Disney station cannot leave Tomorrowland until Downtown Disney is all clear. So when you have a slow crew running things at Downtown Disney, that just adds to the wait time... And that's one of the biggest differences between now and 20 years ago.

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