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  1. #166

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    Savings? Huh? It's a mistake to look at the "savings" discount when you're spending lots more money for the AP initially and then spending tons in the park.

    Who's stopping the tourist from coming back any time they want to? And does it matter?

    Stop for a minute. You can't make these comparisons one for one. They don't make any sense anymore. The AP can certainly come back any time so why not get a once on a while perk? It doesn't take anything away from the tourist. The tourist can't miss anything if they are on a limited time schedule. You can give the tourist more, but they can only enjoy as much as their time allows.

    Your argument is about not giving the APs more because the tourists cannot enjoy it more. It is ridiculous.
    Lol, ok read this post carefully.

    An AP most definitely saves. If an AP goes more than a certain number of times, the pass pays for itself. You see, when a day ticket is 100 dollars and an AP is 500, once you go six times, you've gotten into Disneyland for free (I know those aren't the real prices but it's simple enough math to prove my point).

    Of course, that doesn't include the discounts they get on food and merchandise.

    Now, my argument, in fact, is not about taking anything away from the APs. It's that when the AP's visit costs less, and is worth less due to the repeatability factor, why should they get an extra perk of more time in the park over the tourist? I'm not saying that the AP's benefits should be taken away in favor of the tourists, but why exactly was the decision made to give, of all people, APs more time to play? Especially when you consider tourists are paying more per day, eating in the park, buying souvenirs (all for full price) and possibly staying in ridiculously expensive hotels.

    As for what you said about the tourist only getting to do what their time allows--that's exactly my point! So thank you for proving it for me the tourists are on time crunches, regardless of their financial situation. Seeing it all as many times as an AP does requires extra time in the parks, which makes it seem strange to me that extra hours would be offered to APs who can and probably have seen everything hundreds of times already.

  2. #167

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    The biggest misconception is that all AP's are locals.

    I am an AP, and I live in Chicago.


    May 11 - 16, 2015

  3. #168

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    Things change. It's not 1980, and there are different economic factors, more competition for Disney and other variables that would make it foolish to run the park the way it was run in 1980. If APs were taken away, ten to one there would be a large group who would just walk away, regardless of the one day ticket price.

    And can the AP program be brought back? Yes, but will there be anyone for it? Well, once you've alienated the demographic who made an advance financial commitment to the park by eliminating APs you are unlikely to get them back. There are already those who are so upset by Disney's elimination of the SoCal ticket deal -- seen as Disney turning its back on the community -- that they are vowing not to return to DLR.
    We won't know anything until the program is eliminated. My proposal has always been to allow one more renewal for each AP. So, it would be a two-year process. the perfect time to have done this was two years before Carsland opened, but they blew that opportunity.

    The AP is more of a commitment to use the park than to love it.

    What financial commitment are you referring to? You pay for one year, and you get one year. There is not like Club 33 with a large initial membership fee then some annual renewals (and if you don't renew, then goodbye initial membership fee). People stop renewing their AP's all the time, then buy them again whenever they want. And the terms are always the same: buy one year's worth of admissions, and you get one year's worth of admissions. The discounts for other purchases might actually be required in order to entice AP'ers to buy stuff once they're there. Because, most don't. Some do, most don't.

    You make it sound as if Disney is making people buy and renew AP's. Or, is it that AP'ers are making Disney offer AP's? "Or else"?
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  4. #169

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    We won't know anything until the program is eliminated. My proposal has always been to allow one more renewal for each AP. So, it would be a two-year process. the perfect time to have done this was two years before Carsland opened, but they blew that opportunity.

    The AP is more of a commitment to use the park than to love it.

    What financial commitment are you referring to? You pay for one year, and you get one year. There is not like Club 33 with a large initial membership fee then some annual renewals (and if you don't renew, then goodbye initial membership fee). People stop renewing their AP's all the time, then buy them again whenever they want. And the terms are always the same: buy one year's worth of admissions, and you get one year's worth of admissions. The discounts for other purchases might actually be required in order to entice AP'ers to buy stuff once they're there. Because, most don't. Some do, most don't.

    You make it sound as if Disney is making people buy and renew AP's. Or, is it that AP'ers are making Disney offer AP's? "Or else"?
    An AP IS a financial commitment. If you're an AP you're paying for your year in advance (yes, we know some are on payment plans, but not all). Disney probably hopes that the APs are more like me (who goes once a month, if I'm lucky, and does spend on food and merch) and less like the ones who go every week and don't buy much. Regardless if I use the pass twice or twenty times over the year, though, I've committed to give Disney a certain amount of money. They know for a fact they're getting that out of me.

    APs can't really make Disney do anything. If they didn't want to offer the passes, they wouldn't. However, I'm sure they know that the passes keep a certain amount of money coming in and that many would not visit Disneyland or buy tickets without the AP program. It's in their interest to keep it.

  5. #170

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    The thing is, you haven't "committed" any money. You have already did pay that amount. Maybe you'll pay for the following year. Maybe you won't. Disney can't count on your renewal. (Perhaps in your case, they can, but there are several threads on MiceChat about AP'ers not renewing. Heck, there is a trip report that discusses this right below this thread.)
    What you are actually "committing" to is going to the park, or else "not getting your money's worth." And the more you go, the more you get out of it.

    I have a question for you. If you plan to go to Disneyland once a month with an AP, would you go to DL if there were no AP Program and if the one-day entry fee was, say, 1/12 of the cost of your AP? And if so, how often?

    Just wondering.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  6. #171

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Lol, ok read this post carefully.
    Most definitely.

    An AP most definitely saves. If an AP goes more than a certain number of times, the pass pays for itself. You see, when a day ticket is 100 dollars and an AP is 500, once you go six times, you've gotten into Disneyland for free (I know those aren't the real prices but it's simple enough math to prove my point).
    You got to stop changing the definition. I know people like to say this, but spending more money is not saving.

    Your ticket was never free. It is an illusion. There is always a cost to you. It doesn't "pay for itself". You paid for getting in.

    Of course, that doesn't include the discounts they get on food and merchandise.
    Discounts on already high marked up prices to a captive audience is no real savings. Goodness.

    Now, my argument, in fact, is not about taking anything away from the APs. It's that when the AP's visit costs less, and is worth less due to the repeatability factor, why should they get an extra perk of more time in the park over the tourist? I'm not saying that the AP's benefits should be taken away in favor of the tourists, but why exactly was the decision made to give, of all people, APs more time to play? Especially when you consider tourists are paying more per day, eating in the park, buying souvenirs (all for full price) and possibly staying in ridiculously expensive hotels.
    The extra perk is something APs already paid for. To Disney, it is a marginal cost to keep their APs happy to build goodwill AND achieve their objectives in running the park. Disney has a strategy to use their AP holders to benefit Disney and APs. You might not see it, but AP can appreciate such gestures.

    While I can see you arguing in the corporations viewpoint that the tourists should be encouraged, there is another way of looking at it. The tourists are already in the park all day long. The APs usually visit for short spurts. Why not give the APs a special event since they haven't been tapped for the day or the week? Certainly they can come back on Friday, but Thursday night is a weeknight and they could keep the park open a bit longer for them.

    As for what you said about the tourist only getting to do what their time allows--that's exactly my point! So thank you for proving it for me the tourists are on time crunches, regardless of their financial situation. Seeing it all as many times as an AP does requires extra time in the parks, which makes it seem strange to me that extra hours would be offered to APs who can and probably have seen everything hundreds of times already.
    I don't get how I proved your point from the way you wrote it. So tourists are on time restrictions... And the point is?

    The AP have seen it all. So Disney offers them a chance to have an appreciation private parties to see it some more. But you're forgetting that not all AP holders use their passes the same intensity. In a previous Al Lutz report, some APs are laggards. They go less than usual. Disney can tap these APs that don't go as much.

  7. #172

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    There are also the tourists who are no longer going to Disneyland for their own reasons, one of which is likely that it's too crowded and no longer worth the admission price. TDA has let them all go.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  8. #173

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Steven W,

    if you buy an AP and go once a month, you have spent less money getting in than a guest who paid to get into the park with a hard ticket for the same amount of days. You are most definitely saving money by buying an AP. This renders your argument that APs are entitled to these things void.

  9. #174

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    To Disney, it is a marginal cost to keep their APs happy to build goodwill AND achieve their objectives in running the park. Disney has a strategy to use their AP holders to benefit Disney and APs. You might not see it, but AP can appreciate such gestures.
    Disney realizes not all AP holders are locals. And by making it on Thurs nights, they add the incentive for AP holders like me to come down early for a weekend, by getting extra hours on Thurs.
    If you see a cute yellow lab puppy with a yellow cape, WAVE! It might be us! (Or it may be someone else that lurks here!) Thank you for asking before you pet! Next trip, Dec 22-Jan 3rd.

  10. #175

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Steven W,

    if you buy an AP and go once a month, you have spent less money getting in than a guest who paid to get into the park with a hard ticket for the same amount of days. You are most definitely saving money by buying an AP. This renders your argument that APs are entitled to these things void.
    You're making the wrong comparison. The One Day Park price was never the price most people pay. Disney admits to this. Disney looks at how much YOU are willing to part with your money at any one time. $85 to $600. It's up to you.

    I love it when you say you're saving money on an AP that costs hundreds of dollars.

  11. #176

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    I have a question for you. If you plan to go to Disneyland once a month with an AP, would you go to DL if there were no AP Program and if the one-day entry fee was, say, 1/12 of the cost of your AP? And if so, how often?

    Just wondering.
    It's likely that I wouldn't. For one thing, the chance of Disney dropping the one day admission cost to $27 - which would be about 1/12 of my pass - is nil. For another, I'd be unhappy with Disney for dropping APs and really wouldn't want to support them anymore, regardless of how much I enjoy the parks. I'd perhaps go once a year, or perhaps I'd buy a pass to Universal instead.

    With my pass right now, I get there about once a month, but if I want to go more often, I certainly have that opportunity. If I am not feeling well, or a favorite attraction is down, or whatever, I can come back another day without paying more. I wouldn't be able to do that with hard ticketing.

    I'd also add that even though I'm paying about $27/month for Disneyland, every time I go to the park I easily spend $50 on merch and food. Multiply that by 12 and Disney is getting an additional $600 a year out of me. If I were paying for a ticket at the gate I would be watching my pennies much more and wouldn't buy as much, if anything.

  12. #177

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    You're making the wrong comparison. The One Day Park price was never the price most people pay. Disney admits to this. Disney looks at how much YOU are willing to part with your money at any one time. $85 to $600. It's up to you.

    I love it when you say you're saving money on an AP that costs hundreds of dollars.
    No his comparison is correct. You pay one flat fee for unlimited access, eventually if you go enough times, you'll have gone more comparatively than a single day ticket would for the same amount of time. Thus saving money

    If you go once a month, the AP saves you money over a hard ticket.

    You can argue semantics all you want, there is a number of times that you go with an AP that offsets that upfront cost based on the daily, or even discounted ticket prices.
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  13. #178

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    You can get this information if you subscribe to touring plans.

  14. #179

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbaraann View Post
    The biggest misconception is that all AP's are locals.

    I am an AP, and I live in Chicago.
    It's not a misconception (and I am sorry I missed you on your trip out). But it's similar to pumpkin patches that advertise 100lb pumpkins, or Christmas tree farms advertising 30ft trees. Sure there's a few 100lb'er's or a few 30ft'er's but how many smaller pumpkins are in the field? How many smaller trees are on the lot? The average AP is a local, I'd go even farther and theorize the majority of AP's are locals. That would be based on advertising (how many Disneyland AP ads do you hear on the local Chicago radio?). It would be based on park attendance when AP's are and are not blocked. It would be based on the ebb and flow of parking traffic and parking behavior described by Al. The bottom line is yes there are out of state AP's, but their numbers are substantially smaller than the overall AP population.

    While we're on the subject of advertising; Disneyland has been running the Buzz Lightyear AP ad non stop recently. At the end Buzz says something about the place being "too big" and "needing more time". A Disney voice then cuts in about being able to spread the magic all year, and monthly payment options... So even the locals are being scared into "It's too crowded to go just for the day, especially at that price". TDA sees it as a win/win. They advertise the sellout crowds and encourage higher level tickets, while also encouraging higher access level AP's because "it's crowded out there". Ironic when you consider the crowd is almost entirely Disney made. It doesn't become a problem until tourists go elsewhere... which they have been recently. If the tourists don't come back and pick up the tab who do you think will be handed the bill? I'll give everyone a hint, who's admission went up the most recently?


    A continual trend I've seen in the past 12 pages here, as well as on other threads is that if an AP has to pay for a full price ticket they wouldn't go. I've seen "cost prohibitive". I've seen "not worth it. I've seen "too crowded". But boiling it all down if the AP had to pay the cost of a regular ticket each visit they wouldn't go.

    So, if individuals don't think it is worth it to pay for a day ticket that's great. Why should the ones who do pay, who do feel it is "worth it" get less in the form of benefits and perks? Saying "I wouldn't go because of that price" simply proves my point.
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  15. #180

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    The average AP is a local. I'll agree to that. All AP's are not. So when I read a lot of these theories. Many of them do not apply to me. I spent $469 for my AP, and have already used it 10 times. I will use it about 4 more times on my next trip. I spend very little money in the park, and most of that is for food. I actually came home with money after my most recent vacation.

    I would never go just one day to Disneyland. Not because it isn't worth the price, but because one day in the park would not satisfy me. Disneyland is a vacation destination for me, and my brand new AP has allowed me to plan more vacation days.

    I enjoyed my two days of early entry that I got because I am now an annual passholder. I enjoyed the small discount that I got on my meals. I enjoyed my time. Crowds don't bother me. I work around those.

    I guess I miss the points of these comparisons, when I become the exception to the norm. I am a tourist with an AP.


    May 11 - 16, 2015

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