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  1. #226

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    This doesn't change the fact that APs are technically saving money per visit, which is the main point in arguing that it seems strange to give them the extra perk of extra hours.
    This is the thread in a nutshell.

    Now correct me if I am wrong. Annual passholders have just been given these extra hours recently. One extra hour in DCA on Saturday. One extra hour on Sunday in Disneyland. I apologize for not being clear about the extended hours, I believe on Thursday evening.

    Multiday ticket holders of 3 days and longer have always gotten one Magic Morning in Disneyland as long as I was buying those tickets, and that dates back to 2005 for me.

    I understand that park guests who are registered in the Disney hotels on property, have had early morning privileges as well on certain days. They most likely hold multiday tickets as well.

    So Annual passholders have just received the added perk that has been extended to other park guests for quite some time.

    All of these people have saved money on their tickets. A multiday ticket always costs less, per day, than a single day ticket. An annual passholder's daily expenditure for their ticket depends on how much they use it.

    I don't see the problem. The only one not getting the extra hour is the single day ticket holder.
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  2. #227

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Two points to add here:

    #1: I think the fact that Disneyland is adding perks to the AP offer is substantial proof that the AP numbers are trending downward. Something that should make a lot of people here happy.

    #2: The idea of Disneyland doing away with the AP is ludicrous. First off, it would take a year to "retire" all the annual passes. Disneyland without the AP revenue stream would change and it would change in ways that nobody would welcome.

  3. #228

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    This is irrelevant. APs are blocked due to park capacity. Did you know you can still buy your APs on a block out date?
    Oh...but you said they were an emotional impulse buy. Sooo people are buying on impulse and emotion on days they can't go? That seems kind of odd.

    APs are there to fill the park when it should be slow. Therefore, they may not be a loss but they are definitely not a gain, and as you said, they are filling up otherwise empty spaces. But the initial point of this thread was not to debate how profitable APs are, it's about the value of a vacation to the tourist vs. the AP. You have done nothing to explain why tourists shouldn't get extra hours in the park when they are paying more per day and have limited time without the ability to come back anytime. That's what this thread is about. And you know that APs save money because you just explained that Disney sells them to fill empty parks...so obviously they are discounted. However, Disney actually relies on the tourists in the grand scheme of things, but when a tourist goes during the slow season they are paying just as much as everyone else whereas the AP has the benefit of coming back later without having to pay anything extra. That is why it seems unfair to give APs the added bonus of staying in the park later.

  4. #229

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbaraann View Post
    This is the thread in a nutshell.

    Now correct me if I am wrong. Annual passholders have just been given these extra hours recently. One extra hour in DCA on Saturday. One extra hour on Sunday in Disneyland. I apologize for not being clear about the extended hours, I believe on Thursday evening.

    Multiday ticket holders of 3 days and longer have always gotten one Magic Morning in Disneyland as long as I was buying those tickets, and that dates back to 2005 for me.

    I understand that park guests who are registered in the Disney hotels on property, have had early morning privileges as well on certain days. They most likely hold multiday tickets as well.

    So Annual passholders have just received the added perk that has been extended to other park guests for quite some time.

    All of these people have saved money on their tickets. A multiday ticket always costs less, per day, than a single day ticket. An annual passholder's daily expenditure for their ticket depends on how much they use it.

    I don't see the problem. The only one not getting the extra hour is the single day ticket holder.
    Yes, this. And that last sentence is a good way of looking at it. But when it becomes a perk to everyone except one group of people who have the least amount of time, then it really becomes a punishment...buy a single day ticket and you're screwed out of some extra time while everyone else has some fun. To make it really beneficial to guests, it needs exclusivity and the group that should have the exclusive rights to it, IMO, are people who are from out of town or who can't take Disney trips that often. Heck, even you Barbaraann I think should be allowed extra hours because you travel from so far but to realistically narrow down who gets what, I think it's most fair not to exclude the people paying more per day and not having unlimited time to see everything.

  5. #230

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Oh...but you said they were an emotional impulse buy. Sooo people are buying on impulse and emotion on days they can't go? That seems kind of odd.
    Huh? It is odd that you don't understand how APs work. You CAN buy your preferred AP on a blockout date. It is a one time perk. Thus, it is the ultimate impulse and emotional purchase.

    APs are there to fill the park when it should be slow. Therefore, they may not be a loss but they are definitely not a gain, and as you said, they are filling up otherwise empty spaces. But the initial point of this thread was not to debate how profitable APs are, it's about the value of a vacation to the tourist vs. the AP. You have done nothing to explain why tourists shouldn't get extra hours in the park when they are paying more per day and have limited time without the ability to come back anytime. That's what this thread is about. And you know that APs save money because you just explained that Disney sells them to fill empty parks...so obviously they are discounted. However, Disney actually relies on the tourists in the grand scheme of things, but when a tourist goes during the slow season they are paying just as much as everyone else whereas the AP has the benefit of coming back later without having to pay anything extra. That is why it seems unfair to give APs the added bonus of staying in the park later.
    APs are there. Tourists come and go. APs build brand loyalty... etc. Brand loyalty can be exploited for profits, thus Disney can profit. If you don't market to loyal customers, you ARE chasing new customers, which are more expensive to court. Disney isn't spending a ton to satisfy their existing customers. All things being unfair, it is odd that you're trying to pit them against each other when they have different needs and time constraints. The tourist has come and gone. The APs are still around. Does this need to be spelled out?

  6. #231

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Why not accept the fact that Disneyland originally survived because of tourist dollars coming in from far off places but since the establishment of the Orlando park in Florida, Disneyland has evolved into a locals park.

    Locals who bought and developed real estate around the Disneyland area - They support the park by spending their time at the park more. By committing revenue to the park in an ongoing basis. By promoting the developments and news of the park to their friends and family.

    I doubt that an AP holder mistook the crane towering over Big Thunder Railroad for an attraction!

    The bottom line is that Disneyland is now a park supported mostly by local guests and any good travel agent or touring magazine can inform a potential tourist of this fact. If they want a tourist oriented experience, why not choose to go to Orlando ?

    Disneyland is a locals park. Get over it.

  7. #232

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    For me, Disneyland is a tourist attraction. I try once or twice a year, if I am fortunate enough, to play the tourist and spend time at Disneyland. Although, I don't do the other California stuff, since I travel alone and I don't drive.

    Disneyland is more fun than Disney World, at least for me. I have a much more relaxed vacation.

    The locals don't bother me. We get along fine. I have been there almost all the different times of the year, and it all fun for me. Other tourists may complain about the locals. Other locals may complain about the locals. I still get my money's worth, so I am happy to play the tourist in the locals park.
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  8. #233

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    APs are there. Tourists come and go. APs build brand loyalty... etc. Brand loyalty can be exploited for profits, thus Disney can profit. If you don't market to loyal customers, you ARE chasing new customers, which are more expensive to court. Disney isn't spending a ton to satisfy their existing customers. All things being unfair, it is odd that you're trying to pit them against each other when they have different needs and time constraints. The tourist has come and gone. The APs are still around. Does this need to be spelled out?
    Yes, I agree that it is easier to operate a park if you don't have to scrape and claw for every dollar. If that is all anyone wants out of the park (money), then that is certainly the way to go.
    And, that is too bad.

    If we're going to talk about "losses," we'll have to create a model of expenses. Expenses are either fixed or variable (or, if you insist, stepped) to admissions. That is about as far as I get without actual data.

    Also, AP revenue needs to be allocated in a more objective manner, since we don't know the eventual number of visits for any AP'ers. My method of allocation, stated on MiceChat a number of times is as follows: APer's first visit is allocated half the AP Price; APer's second visit is allocated 1/4 the AP Price; and so on. The 16th Visit for a PAP would be allocated less than a penny, so no more allocations after that. Any balance still around after a year -- if a PAP'er went only four times, the AP allocation balance would be $40.56 -- is allocated the day after expiration.
    The other way is to simply divide the total AP revenue by 365, and see how expenses (still not known by us) compare to revenue on a daily basis (after adding the day's till).

    (Walt certainly had a reason to close Disneyland on certain days in the off-season: not enough guests to run the park at a profit. Close two days, and that squeezes more guests into the remaining days.)

    We can get more complicated by adding interest payments or ROI into the discussion. More stuff we don't know.
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  9. #234

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Its a very simple perk, given to a select group. Not sure why it is blown out of proportion.
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  10. #235

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    While I agree that the majority of APs are local and pop in frequently, I think people underestimate the number of APs who are in Nor Cal, Vegas, AZ, etc. People who visit frequently enough to get their moneys worth on an AP, but still travel, use hotels, eat many meals in the parks or DTD, buy souvenirs, and stay several days at a time. I run into AP holders all the time up here.

    We don't, BTW, get the AP commercials on TV, but we do get a lot of DLR and WDW advertising.

  11. #236

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    Huh? It is odd that you don't understand how APs work. You CAN buy your preferred AP on a blockout date. It is a one time perk. Thus, it is the ultimate impulse and emotional purchase.

    APs are there. Tourists come and go. APs build brand loyalty... etc. Brand loyalty can be exploited for profits, thus Disney can profit. If you don't market to loyal customers, you ARE chasing new customers, which are more expensive to court. Disney isn't spending a ton to satisfy their existing customers. All things being unfair, it is odd that you're trying to pit them against each other when they have different needs and time constraints. The tourist has come and gone. The APs are still around. Does this need to be spelled out?
    Ok, this thread has run its course and I'm tired of it. But I will say this...I do know how the APs work, so instead of questioning my knowledge of the subject, you could address the fact that I clearly spelled out we are talking about the value of an AP versus the value of a tourist ticket, not the value of an AP to Disneyland. I really am not sure what about that is so hard for you to understand but whatever it may be, maybe techskip or someone else who can put it into better words than me will keep it going.

    Bottom line on my opinion, APs can go anytime and they go cheaper. Why not put your efforts into giving the tourists a better park experience rather than the APs? Though APs help, tourists keep the park afloat (summer time makes more money when APs are not only blocked out, but also when the park is not as crowded as the days leading up to summer...it's not a coincidence that July makes the most money yet the park is full of tourists even though the park isn't as crowded). And even still, the simple principle of the fact that tourists savor every money-spending vacation moment makes me think they would be much more appreciative from extra park hours, and benefit from it more than APs, making their blatant exclusion from the event kind of like a slap in the face. But hey, that's just me, and I am a former AP holder.

  12. #237

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Ok, this thread has run its course and I'm tired of it. But I will say this...I do know how the APs work, so instead of questioning my knowledge of the subject, you could address the fact that I clearly spelled out we are talking about the value of an AP versus the value of a tourist ticket, not the value of an AP to Disneyland. I really am not sure what about that is so hard for you to understand but whatever it may be, maybe techskip or someone else who can put it into better words than me will keep it going.
    I'm not questioning. I'm telling you how APs work especially with your response that showed your ignorance.

    Well, I'm tired that you haven't read what I wrote. I said in two posts the value of the AP versus what the tourist ticket.

    Post 223.
    Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP's?

    Post 224.Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP's?
    Bottom line on my opinion, APs can go anytime and they go cheaper. Why not put your efforts into giving the tourists a better park experience rather than the APs? Though APs help, tourists keep the park afloat (summer time makes more money when APs are not only blocked out, but also when the park is not as crowded as the days leading up to summer...it's not a coincidence that July makes the most money yet the park is full of tourists even though the park isn't as crowded). And even still, the simple principle of the fact that tourists savor every money-spending vacation moment makes me think they would be much more appreciative from extra park hours, and benefit from it more than APs, making their blatant exclusion from the event kind of like a slap in the face. But hey, that's just me, and I am a former AP holder.
    You keep saying this over and over again. The benefit the AP gets is independent of what the tourist gets. The tourist already gets the Magic Mornings. I've stated this several times.

    It is an excuse to keep saying the AP can go back. There is absolutely nothing wrong with an AP getting a special event to attend. And no, they are not going cheaper. They paid much more for their ticket than the tourist. You make it seem like the perks the tourist doesn't get will make them super upset. This is what you're feeling and it's absolutely silly. It is nothing more than your emotional reaction. You said this while claiming Summer/July isn't crowded (due to AP blockout days). The extra park hours isn't offered for APs in the high season. A different time and place for everything.

  13. #238

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Steven W,

    I am not ignorant. Thank You

    Edit: And just to clarify, as a former APholder (which those of you actually reading would know) I know how the system works. What I meant in the previous post that spurred such an excitable response from our friend Steven here is that because you can buy APs on blocked out days, they are not impulse buys--they are purchases that people take thought into. One of the points listed was that APs were emotional purchases but since they can be bought at any time, that's not always the case. That was all I meant.
    Last edited by TylerDurden; 02-21-2013 at 12:43 PM.

  14. #239

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    I'm not questioning. I'm telling you how APs work especially with your response that showed your ignorance.

    Well, I'm tired that you haven't read what I wrote. I said in two posts the value of the AP versus what the tourist ticket.

    Post 223.
    Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP's?

    Post 224.Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP's?
    You keep saying this over and over again. The benefit the AP gets is independent of what the tourist gets. The tourist already gets the Magic Mornings. I've stated this several times.

    It is an excuse to keep saying the AP can go back. There is absolutely nothing wrong with an AP getting a special event to attend. And no, they are not going cheaper. They paid much more for their ticket than the tourist. You make it seem like the perks the tourist doesn't get will make them super upset. This is what you're feeling and it's absolutely silly. It is nothing more than your emotional reaction. You said this while claiming Summer/July isn't crowded (due to AP blockout days). The extra park hours isn't offered for APs in the high season. A different time and place for everything.
    Why are you using the price of a single day single park ticket in your 'math'? As far as I'm aware the AP gives you unlimited access to both parks. Why dont you calculate using the price of a 1 day park hopper ($125)

    Lets see

    1 Day = $125
    2 days= $250
    3 days = $375
    4 days = $500
    5 days = $625

    Oh wow look, that Premium annual pass is 24 dollars more than 5 days of a 1 day park hopper (since if you're going to compare, you have to get the ticket that offers access to both parks)

    6 days = $750

    Oh just passed the PAP price. Whats that? You can keep going and not have to pay more with your high end annual pass?

    12 days = $1250, assuming the average APer goes about once a month.

    Yea you sure paid 'more' there with your pass.

    Wait whats that? You got around 6 days 'free' or so compared to the same amount of money paid for a hard ticket?

    Math, not emotions, no matter how you spin it Steven.

    You save money buying a PAP if you go more than 5 trips a year. Which I'm guessing a lot of the local AP population does

    And thats just counting the premium pass price, the SoCal ap, you only have to go twice
    Last edited by Wren; 02-21-2013 at 01:02 PM.
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  15. #240

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    Why are you using the price of a single day single park ticket in your 'math'? As far as I'm aware the AP gives you unlimited access to both parks. Why dont you calculate using the price of a 1 day park hopper ($125)

    Lets see

    1 Day = $125
    2 days= $250
    3 days = $375
    4 days = $500
    5 days = $625

    Oh wow look, that Premium annual pass is 24 dollars more than 5 days of a 1 day park hopper (since if you're going to compare, you have to get the ticket that offers access to both parks)

    7 days = $750

    Oh just passed the PAP price. Whats that? You can keep going and not have to pay more with your high end annual pass?

    12 days = $1250, assuming the average APer goes about once a month.

    Yea you sure paid 'more' there with your pass.

    Wait whats that? You got around 6 days 'free' or so compared to the same amount of money paid for a hard ticket?

    Math, not emotions, no matter how you spin it Steven.

    You save money buying a PAP if you go more than 5 trips a year. Which I'm guessing a lot of the local AP population does

    And thats just counting the premium pass price, the SoCal ap, you only have to go twice

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