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  1. #241

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    But wait, theres more!

    Since there is a monthly payment plan, lets see the monthly cost of a PAP

    $649 divided by 12 months = 54.08. My that's much cheaper than 1 park hopper per month, that's much cheaper than 1 park hopper every other month

    Unless this is the world where 54 is greater than 125, or 649 is greater than 1250

    =/
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  2. #242

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by ravencroft View Post
    #1: I think the fact that Disneyland is adding perks to the AP offer is substantial proof that the AP numbers are trending downward. Something that should make a lot of people here happy.
    The decision to offer the AP's the perk is puzzling but I question how it could indicate a downward trend of the AP population. It's been spun on here as being either a perk for a blossoming audience, or encouragement for manipulating the Guest to AP ratio on weekend mornings. You could also argue (and I would back you) that it is indicative of a downward trend of the tourist population. This is technically the "off season". IF... big if there... IF the perk is carried over to pre-Summer, and/or if the AP room discount is continued to a busier season, it would substantiate that Disney is shifting the cost more to AP's. I suspect that is part of what is behind the AP price increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by ravencroft View Post
    The bottom line is that Disneyland is now a park supported mostly by local guests and any good travel agent or touring magazine can inform a potential tourist of this fact. If they want a tourist oriented experience, why not choose to go to Orlando ?

    Disneyland is a locals park. Get over it.
    do you honestly believe they've spent well over a Billion dollars redeveloping the second gate into a full day park, and Millions more redeveloping towers at the Disneyland Hotel, for locals? Disney has invested substantially in the message of a multi-day resort. They encourage 3 Day park hoppers in advertising and try their best to steer tourists to their hotel. Anahiem as a whole has lower taxes because of the hotel tax generated both by the resort and the hotels/motels surrounding the property. Yes locals are there in the "off season", but the "big fish" is the tourist, not the local who may or may not buy something each visit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    Its a very simple perk, given to a select group. Not sure why it is blown out of proportion.
    The reason it blew up is over the reasoning behind the group they decided to give it to.

    Quote Originally Posted by lalolovesme View Post
    While I agree that the majority of APs are local and pop in frequently, I think people underestimate the number of APs who are in Nor Cal, Vegas, AZ, etc. People who visit frequently enough to get their moneys worth on an AP, but still travel, use hotels, eat many meals in the parks or DTD, buy souvenirs, and stay several days at a time. I run into AP holders all the time up here.

    We don't, BTW, get the AP commercials on TV, but we do get a lot of DLR and WDW advertising.
    In the "big picture" I wonder what the % of AP's are that are local vs out of town, state etc. I suspect the population is primarily local due in part to the fact that the AP has a "So Cal" option AND is heavily advertised in the local area zip codes! I know there "are" tourist AP's, but the majority is likely local and the spending habits of the few would not outweigh the lack of spending by the many.

    There was also a comment on here about the 2fer going bye-bye. That is likely due to DCA's completion and the belief that it is now a "full day experience". Prior to the make-over the 2fer was used to boost DCA's attendance. Give people a day at Disneyland and then pad the numbers at DCA. What typically happened is everyone would do the Disneyland day... then wait... and the last 2 weeks of it DCA would be a ZOO. It's sad when you can literally see the effect of a promotion on park attendance sheets.



    As to the whole "AP vs Tourist" and "definition of loss"... Disney is looking for a specific ratio of AP to Tourist. They NEED the money generated by the tourist. Evidence of that is the summer blockouts. They WANT the money generated by the AP. Evidence of that would be the monthly payment option. NEED vs WANT, there is a difference. Irrespective of the physical number assigned to the attendance, when the ratio is more AP's to less Tourists there is less spending on a per Guest basis. This is in part because of a lack of admission sales. It also factors in parking, food and souvenirs. Not everyone stays on property, but those who do obviously add substantially to the Disney coffers as well. Again NEED vs WANT. As tourists leave for less crowded, less expensive destinations, Disney will begin to rely more heavily on AP's. AP's are already seeing things like dramatic increases in price both for the AP and for the parking pass. They are seeing things that were previously free become part of a ticketed package. And they are being encouraged to stay on property. At the end of the day someone has to foot the bill, and if the tourist isn't there guess who picks up the tab.
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  3. #243

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    This doesn't change the fact that APs are technically saving money per visit, which is the main point in arguing that it seems strange to give them the extra perk of extra hours.
    why? AP holders are just as much a park guest as day ticket holders. I think the extend hours should be for both AP holders and Day or multi day ticket holders because they are guests of Disneyland...

  4. #244

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    Why are you using the price of a single day single park ticket in your 'math'? As far as I'm aware the AP gives you unlimited access to both parks. Why dont you calculate using the price of a 1 day park hopper ($125)

    Lets see

    1 Day = $125
    2 days= $250
    3 days = $375
    4 days = $500
    5 days = $625

    Oh wow look, that Premium annual pass is 24 dollars more than 5 days of a 1 day park hopper (since if you're going to compare, you have to get the ticket that offers access to both parks)

    6 days = $750

    Oh just passed the PAP price. Whats that? You can keep going and not have to pay more with your high end annual pass?

    12 days = $1250, assuming the average APer goes about once a month.

    Yea you sure paid 'more' there with your pass.

    Wait whats that? You got around 6 days 'free' or so compared to the same amount of money paid for a hard ticket?

    Math, not emotions, no matter how you spin it Steven.

    You save money buying a PAP if you go more than 5 trips a year. Which I'm guessing a lot of the local AP population does

    And thats just counting the premium pass price, the SoCal ap, you only have to go twice

  5. #245

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Off the website this morning...

    These are the "specials" again indicative of Disney now being a multi-day destination
    3 Day park hopper $220 ($250)
    4 Day park hopper $245 ($275)
    5 Day park hopper $260 ($290)
    * ($) indicated normal price per website.

    So average expected DAILY admission for ticketed media
    3 days $73 ($83)
    4 Days $61 ($69)
    5 Days $52 ($58)
    * ($) indicated normal price per website.

    I didn't even bother with the 1 and 2 day since I wanted to be fair and give it a chance against the AP's!

    PAP $649
    DAP $469
    SoCal $329
    SoCalSelect $269


    We all agree that 5 day is the cheapest advertised non hotel package option on the Disneyland website correct... so...
    Pass No of Visits greater or equal to $52 average
    PAP approx 13
    DAP approx 9 (9.01 to be technical)
    SoCal approx 7
    SoCalSelect approx 6


    Now the average if each of AP visits once a month
    PAP $54
    DAP $39
    SoCal $27
    SoCalSelect $22



    Just thought that the theoretical has gone on long enough so there's the hard numbers as of 2/12/13 on Disneyland Resort | Welcome to the Magic

    Feel free to explain how anything less than $52 average is not considered a loss if the park capacity is full and tourists with a 5 day are unable to purchase/enter.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  6. #246

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    So what is the theory as to why the tourist is only offered a 5 day Parkhopper? Nothing more. If they want to come more than 5 days, they are told to purchase an Annual Pass. I am still trying to figure that out.

    I had a dilemna before my 6 day vacation became a 10 day one. I was wondering what to do with that extra day, and no park ticket. I solved my dilemna by doing the math. It was cheaper for me to buy an annual pass, add 4 days in a hotel with a friend, and I now have a ticket for my next vacation, which would again have cost me hundreds of dollars.

  7. #247

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbaraann View Post
    So what is the theory as to why the tourist is only offered a 5 day Parkhopper? Nothing more. If they want to come more than 5 days, they are told to purchase an Annual Pass. I am still trying to figure that out.

    I had a dilemna before my 6 day vacation became a 10 day one. I was wondering what to do with that extra day, and no park ticket. I solved my dilemna by doing the math. It was cheaper for me to buy an annual pass, add 4 days in a hotel with a friend, and I now have a ticket for my next vacation, which would again have cost me hundreds of dollars.
    I am guessing that the most popular is actually the 3 day, not the 4 or 5. Mainly because of the options offered with the 3 Day and the fact that there are other destination in Southern California to see! Typically if people are staying longer than a week they aren't expecting to spend the entire time at Disneyland.

    That assessment is based both on my own experiences with family and friends as well as friends' experiences booking vacations for tourists (both with and without Disney packages). This is also why DCA was built to reflect the different tourist "hot spots" of California. Someone sold Eisner on the belief that tourists would take the fake Disney version over the real version of said locations.

    It's also based on the fact that it is no longer offered which would indicate that it didn't sell well enough to justify having it.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  8. #248

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Again, I fall into the cracks as to what type of a tourist I am. I read another message board, and when the longer parkhoppers were not offered anymore, there was a bit of an outcry from families who did want to spend more than just 5 days at Disneyland. They are like me in that they wanted to take their time, and spend perhaps a week enjoying the parks. Instead, they now take their 2 additional days elsewhere. I guess there isn't enough of them for Disney to care about.

  9. #249

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    Why are you using the price of a single day single park ticket in your 'math'? As far as I'm aware the AP gives you unlimited access to both parks. Why dont you calculate using the price of a 1 day park hopper ($125)

    ...

    You save money buying a PAP if you go more than 5 trips a year. Which I'm guessing a lot of the local AP population does

    And thats just counting the premium pass price, the SoCal ap, you only have to go twice
    I'm still waiting for a point that you're trying to make.

    Sorry, you're not making any sense. What are you trying to say?

    You'll save money if you buy two (2) park hopping 5 day passes (see post 245). This is the exact tourist options. Don't discuss the buying of 5 separate park hopping tickets. No one does this.

    My comparison with the 1 day 1 park pass is based on the argument from techskip where he said "From a numerical standpoint what would have been $85 a day becomes $35 which in turn becomes $20 a day..."

    Guests who buy APs make up for lots of day trippers and they give Disney lots of money at the same time. This was my argument.

    Nice for you to try to argue from a completely different perspective and failing.

  10. #250

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    Now the average if each of AP visits once a month
    PAP $54
    DAP $39
    SoCal $27
    SoCalSelect $22

    Just thought that the theoretical has gone on long enough so there's the hard numbers as of 2/12/13 on Disneyland Resort | Welcome to the Magic

    Feel free to explain how anything less than $52 average is not considered a loss if the park capacity is full and tourists with a 5 day are unable to purchase/enter.
    Capacity is reached a few days in Christmas holiday when the Deluxe/SoCal/SoCalSelect are already blocked out. Nice try. When the park is packed, many tourists are turned away. This is a shame.

  11. #251

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    I'm still waiting for a point that you're trying to make.

    Sorry, you're not making any sense. What are you trying to say?

    You'll save money if you buy two (2) park hopping 5 day passes (see post 245). This is the exact tourist options. Don't discuss the buying of 5 separate park hopping tickets. No one does this.

    My comparison with the 1 day 1 park pass is based on the argument from techskip where he said "From a numerical standpoint what would have been $85 a day becomes $35 which in turn becomes $20 a day..."

    Guests who buy APs make up for lots of day trippers and they give Disney lots of money at the same time. This was my argument.

    Nice for you to try to argue from a completely different perspective and failing.
    No you dont, the adult 5 day park hopper equals to 58 dollars A DAY

    The most expensive PAP equals out to 54 dollars A MONTH, in which you can go more than 5 days total.

    You tell me which one saves more money, because you've been arguing a PAP is more 'expensive' than the equivalent days in tickets, which its not, even with a discounted 5 day park hopper.

    So again, semantics aside, you have no idea what you're talking about. Even the most expensive annual pass is a bargain compared to even the most generous 5 day hopper ticket deal.
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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  12. #252

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    No you dont, the adult 5 day park hopper equals to 58 dollars A DAY

    The most expensive PAP equals out to 54 dollars A MONTH, in which you can go more than 5 days total.

    You tell me which one saves more money, because you've been arguing a PAP is more 'expensive' than the equivalent days in tickets, which its not, even with a discounted 5 day park hopper.

    So again, semantics aside, you have no idea what you're talking about. Even the most expensive annual pass is a bargain compared to even the most generous 5 day hopper ticket deal.
    Sematics aside. I haven't made this argument "you've been arguing a PAP is more 'expensive' than the equivalent days in tickets, which its not, even with a discounted 5 day park hopper."

    Everyone else is arguing the per day amount gets cheaper, thus there is value. My argument was always that Disney charges a lot for their tickets and they are tricking you into thinking there is value in it.

  13. #253

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    Sematics aside. I haven't made this argument "you've been arguing a PAP is more 'expensive' than the equivalent days in tickets, which its not, even with a discounted 5 day park hopper."

    Everyone else is arguing the per day amount gets cheaper, thus there is value. My argument was always that Disney charges a lot for their tickets and they are tricking you into thinking there is value in it.
    There is value, its a better deal, there's math to prove that.

    And many people on this board have expressed sentiment that the PAP gives much too good of a deal for what it costs.
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
    -Dr. Strange

  14. #254

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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    This doesn't change the fact that APs are technically saving money per visit, which is the main point in arguing that it seems strange to give them the extra perk of extra hours.
    Semantics. They aren't really saving money because we all know that without the AP they would not make as many trips per year. The only folks that would truly save money are those that were making 10 trips per year without knowing about the AP program. You could then say they saved money by switching from one ticket media to an AP.

  15. #255

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    There is value, its a better deal, there's math to prove that.
    Using Disney prices to prove Disney prices is like using a stacked deck. In gambling, the house has the odds.

    And many people on this board have expressed sentiment that the PAP gives much too good of a deal for what it costs.
    Remarkable. No wonder the casinos in Vegas are so well appointed.

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