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  1. #256

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    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    The extra $100 in AP ticket pricing could be pure profit since APs are much more expensive than day tickets, and park expenses are fixed.
    Park expenses are not fixed. The more people in the park, the more Disney has to spend on labor, maintenance, supplies, entertainment and even parking.

    By instead of thinking of expenses, think about per capita spending. Disney tracks how much each person spends per visit and for an AP holder that turnstile click earns disney less money per visit than someone who has to pay $87 each time they go into the gate.

  2. #257

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    AP Parking pass (Deluxe and SoCal) is $129
    Disney expects $15 per car for standard parking
    Disney expects $15 for up to 2 cars for hotel parking

    Since the "day of" parking is refunded when you get the pass that leaves a balance of $114
    Which means after 8 visits your parking is "free".

    So the immediate question becomes, irrespective of the AP/Tourist ratio.. how much money is Disney losing in parking alone?
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  3. #258

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    AP Parking pass (Deluxe and SoCal) is $129
    Disney expects $15 per car for standard parking
    Disney expects $15 for up to 2 cars for hotel parking

    Since the "day of" parking is refunded when you get the pass that leaves a balance of $114
    Which means after 8 visits your parking is "free".

    So the immediate question becomes, irrespective of the AP/Tourist ratio.. how much money is Disney losing in parking alone?
    There is no free. Without the parking pass option, how many guests will try to take advantage of free Downtown Disney parking? How many will try to park in the residential areas of Anaheim? Or steal a space from a hotel/motel?

    Disney wants its money upfront. It is a sure thing. Otherwise, they will count on guest ingenuity. How much revenue loss will result from guests not paying for parking?

    Did you know that if you go to Downtown Disney on a crowded evening and you get directed to Mickey and Friends, you get to park for free!!!

  4. #259

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    There is no free. Without the parking pass option, how many guests will try to take advantage of free Downtown Disney parking? How many will try to park in the residential areas of Anaheim? Or steal a space from a hotel/motel?

    Disney wants its money upfront. It is a sure thing. Otherwise, they will count on guest ingenuity. How much revenue loss will result from guests not paying for parking?

    Did you know that if you go to Downtown Disney on a crowded evening and you get directed to Mickey and Friends, you get to park for free!!!
    Parking is free at Downtown Disney for the first couple hours though

    How many dollars do they lose when the lot is full, again when an APer reached the parking magic number that makes it 'free'?

    The AP car is taking 15 dollars that a non AP car parking there could have paid

    Its the same kind of thing regardless of what they already got from the AP, they're not getting any more money from them for parking.
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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  5. #260

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Park expenses are not fixed. The more people in the park, the more Disney has to spend on labor, maintenance, supplies, entertainment and even parking.

    By instead of thinking of expenses, think about per capita spending. Disney tracks how much each person spends per visit and for an AP holder that turnstile click earns disney less money per visit than someone who has to pay $87 each time they go into the gate.
    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    AP Parking pass (Deluxe and SoCal) is $129
    Disney expects $15 per car for standard parking
    Disney expects $15 for up to 2 cars for hotel parking

    Since the "day of" parking is refunded when you get the pass that leaves a balance of $114
    Which means after 8 visits your parking is "free".

    So the immediate question becomes, irrespective of the AP/Tourist ratio.. how much money is Disney losing in parking alone?
    Bingo x2. Compounding Disney's parking problems is the well documented fact that local APers arrive in single-occupant cars much more than do tourists.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
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  6. #261

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    So again, semantics aside, you have no idea what you're talking about. Even the most expensive annual pass is a bargain compared to even the most generous 5 day hopper ticket deal.
    Not if you are only planning to go for five days. If you are only going for five days a year, the AP is a rip off.

  7. #262

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    There is no free. Without the parking pass option, how many guests will try to take advantage of free Downtown Disney parking? How many will try to park in the residential areas of Anaheim? Or steal a space from a hotel/motel?
    Considering this answer... when was the last time you visited Disneyland and tried to park off property or in DTD? There are not very many residential options. DTD, for the most part charges after a couple hours. IF you wish to risk waiting for the attendants to go home be my guest but if you just leave your car there and they don't leave before you that's a heck of a bill! Hotels, and other businesses will tow your car (many have switched to a parking pass system and a lot of them also charge hotel guests for parking).

    So for anyone visiting, with or without a parking pass, Disney is really the only viable show in town! Unless you want to take the bus, or walk a half mile!
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  8. #263

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    StevenW, I believe your argument is that AP's are taking the space that would otherwise be empty. And that because the space would otherwise go unused Disney is generating sales they otherwise would not have. That would be true in the off season, which is what the AP Program was initially designed for.

    My argument has been and continues to be that the larger the AP population, the smaller the tourist population. The park does not have to be at capacity to feel "crowded". You said yourself that Disney has massively inflated the price of admission. If the tourist does not see value in vacationing at an overly crowded location they will go elsewhere. Which means the addition of more AP's is actually removing tourists who otherwise would pay more for admission and spend more in the park. Once those tourists are gone, good luck winning them back. As the AP population grows the costs will also start to shift to the AP population, primarily because there are less tourists and they've already reached the threshold at which they won't pay more. This has already happened, the latest round of price increases demonstrates this.

    To me that is how the AP program, under it's current population, is costing the company from a long term perspective. Disney has already "sold" them admission. They now have to "sell" the AP's other things to maintain costs. AP's typically do not need a hotel room. They typically do not spend as much in park. Simply put they do not spend nearly as much as a 3, 4, or 5 day park hopper would spend and they are USING more resources by continually visiting beyond what the admission average would have been.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  9. #264

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Semantics. They aren't really saving money because we all know that without the AP they would not make as many trips per year. The only folks that would truly save money are those that were making 10 trips per year without knowing about the AP program. You could then say they saved money by switching from one ticket media to an AP.
    I agree.
    I will also opine that the Converse of the If/Then statement is more true: IF you buy an AP, THEN you will plan to go more than 6 times.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  10. #265

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Not quite true. There is a fixed cost disney incurs for opening the park on any given day. Then there is a marginal cost for guests that come in over and above their planned operating configuration for that day. I am quite sure that park management has very good estimates for each of those numbers for any given week.

  11. #266

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post

    do you honestly believe they've spent well over a Billion dollars redeveloping the second gate into a full day park, and Millions more redeveloping towers at the Disneyland Hotel, for locals? Disney has invested substantially in the message of a multi-day resort. They encourage 3 Day park hoppers in advertising and try their best to steer tourists to their hotel. Anahiem as a whole has lower taxes because of the hotel tax generated both by the resort and the hotels/motels surrounding the property. Yes locals are there in the "off season", but the "big fish" is the tourist, not the local who may or may not buy something each visit.
    We live in Southern California and we stay at the hotels twice per year.

    The DCA expansion was done to increase the capacity of the resort. I am not claiming that everyone is a local or that only locals can go to Disneyland. My claim is that the guests are overwhelmingly locals. The tourists are probably 30% of the attendance.

    Its all good!

  12. #267

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Techskip, Disneyland is offering other "perks" besides extended hours. They are offering previews of shows, they are offering discount hotel rooms, they are offering first pick at merchandise. They offered free access to candle light procession this last Christmas. It is not only about trying to move some of the AP visits from Friday to Thrusday. I am pretty sure Al Lutz is right in his reports that they are scrambling to find stuff to offer to juice up the attractiveness of paying for an annual pass.

  13. #268

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by ravencroft View Post
    We live in Southern California and we stay at the hotels twice per year.

    The DCA expansion was done to increase the capacity of the resort. I am not claiming that everyone is a local or that only locals can go to Disneyland. My claim is that the guests are overwhelmingly locals. The tourists are probably 30% of the attendance.

    Its all good!
    If the primary audience is locals, why do they have blockouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by ravencroft View Post
    Techskip, Disneyland is offering other "perks" besides extended hours. They are offering previews of shows, they are offering discount hotel rooms, they are offering first pick at merchandise. They offered free access to candle light procession this last Christmas. It is not only about trying to move some of the AP visits from Friday to Thrusday. I am pretty sure Al Lutz is right in his reports that they are scrambling to find stuff to offer to juice up the attractiveness of paying for an annual pass.
    And none of those perks really had an impact on vacationing tourists... Most of the shows are local. Most of the artist signings and exclusive merchandise is local based. That's all local stuff. The one possible exception is the hotel discount if it was during the peak times. IF they are offering hotel discounts during peak times wouldn't that also be an indication of an issue filling the rooms?
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  14. #269

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    That TDA added extra hours for AP'ers on Thursday for the express purpose of having fewer AP'ers coming on Friday is evidence that TDA thinks the AP Program creates problems that it doesn't want to have.
    Sorry, TDA. That is not the solution. There is but one solution to eliminate all AP-Program-related problems..
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  15. #270

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    One last comment, going back to the original comment; the extra hours this last Thursday ended up being for the "regular" guests too. We were there from 5-9:30 and on the rides we went on from 8:15-9:30 I would guess 1/2 the riders had wristbands and 1/2 didn't. No one was checking at the ride entrances. The ride wait times were the usual, 40 minutes for Midway Mania and 40 for single riders at RSR. Just an observation.

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