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  1. #46

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by The First Star View Post
    I just think Disneyland should extend its hours -- period.

    If there truly is no longer an off-season, in terms of crowding, then Disneyland shouldn't have off-season-type hours.

    If the real issue here is that tourists come from out of state and feel it's unfair to have to leave Disneyland at 8pm, then Disneyland should stay open until *at least* 10 or 11 on weekdays and midnight on weekends -- all year.

    The original justification for the shortened hours was that the crowds were so light that they couldn't support operations for extended hours. Now that it's busy all year, keep Disneyland open later all year. Let the schedule reflect the actual crowd levels.
    The reason you can't do that is that employees are in short staff during these so-called low seasons. Employees who are part-time because they go to school or have seasonal obligations don't care how crowded it is. If half of your employees are in school in October, then they have to work the hours around this.

  2. #47

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    The reason you can't do that is that employees are in short staff during these so-called low seasons. Employees who are part-time because they go to school or have seasonal obligations don't care how crowded it is. If half of your employees are in school in October, then they have to work the hours around this.
    I would add that just because crowds are at an all time high that doesn't necessarily mean that spending is up too. Those CMs and backstage support staff all need to be paid for those additional hours they work.
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  3. #48

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Right, because Disney can't afford more employees?

  4. #49

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    And the examples I gave show that when you're talking about leisure activities, money doesn't work that way. At the hotel you stay at, do you think everyone pays the same price? Do you think that everyone coming into DLR with hard tickets has paid the same price, for that matter? No. Some have bought their tickets at Costco, that person over there has a military discount, that one has a SoCal discount, that one bought a cheaper ticket from their employer; that one got a free ticket from their friend in Club 33; that one paid full price at the gate. The point being, everyone pays different amounts and gets the same product, which is admission to Disneyland for the day. APs are one more price variation in that mix.

    With the example you gave...at a fancy restaurant you might pay full price, but the person next to you is a friend of the chef; the one across the aisle is getting a Groupon deal and the one over there is using points from their American Express card for dinner. Again, the price is never equal for all and you can't vilify those who get a better deal.

    If you want to buy specific add-ons to your experience once you're in Disneyland it's one thing. If you're restricting basic access based on purchase price, it's quite another. The perks that APs get are no different than the perks you'd get if you were, say, in an airline frequent flyer club or a professional group. Businesses tend to want to reward those who stay with the company or commit up front to memberships.
    I think the issue that they are trying to point out is that when you offer discounts to such a large number of people, you start to permanently degrade the value of the product for everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by The First Star View Post
    I just think Disneyland should extend its hours -- period.

    If there truly is no longer an off-season, in terms of crowding, then Disneyland shouldn't have off-season-type hours.

    If the real issue here is that tourists come from out of state and feel it's unfair to have to leave Disneyland at 8pm, then Disneyland should stay open until *at least* 10 or 11 on weekdays and midnight on weekends -- all year.

    The original justification for the shortened hours was that the crowds were so light that they couldn't support operations for extended hours. Now that it's busy all year, keep Disneyland open later all year. Let the schedule reflect the actual crowd levels.
    The reason that this is unfeasible is that the park simply cannot run on 8 hours closure 365 days a year. There is so much more maintenance such as painting and refinishing that is done during the longer off season closures in preparation for the busiest of seasons. Sure, you can close attractions at any time for maintenance, but what about refinishing sidewalks, painting rockwork, replacing fencing, etc..? That kind of stuff can be done in half a day, but not in 8 hours when you also have to do all of the other general 3rd shift stuff as well.

  5. #50

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    I think the issue that they are trying to point out is that when you offer discounts to such a large number of people, you start to permanently degrade the value of the product for everyone.
    Why? If you are enjoying your vacation or your time at Disneyland, why would it be your concern what someone else paid or didn't pay - and why would that "degrade" your experience or the product?

  6. #51

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    First, to those of you complaining about crowds, unfortunately you have chosen a destination that is extremely popular and still has a cost/benefit that purchasers find desirable enough to continue to buy. Go on a less busy day. You can't? You don't want to? Well, guess what, a lot of other people are in the same boat so they show up on the same days you will. That's how crowds work.

    The reason they have APs is not to give locals a discount, it's to bring people into the parks MORE OFTEN. I guarantee that if locals had to pay per day, they wouldn't go nearly as often. This is a loss, as locals tend to bring friends, buy food, buy merchandise, etc.

    There are also non-local APs to consider, such as myself. I would only go once a year if I didn't have my AP. Every time I visit, I pay for a hotel, I put gas in my car, I buy food... So what if I didn't buy a 3 day park hopper because I know buying my AP pays for itself after three trips? So I made a smart finanacial decision for myself, and it make me spend my vacation time at Disneyland instead of somewhere else. It's a win-win for me and for Disney, and really for the local area due to my hotel, gas, and food purchases outside the park.

    They should absolutely offer benefits to APs to keep them coming, as they should to hotel guests as they are choosing to spend their money with the company. That's good business practice.

    As for the "magic", that's a whole different animal that is based on personal preferences and desires. We'd all love to have a non-crowded park for less money, but that's unfortunately not reality. Make what you want of it.

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    If the Extra Hours are offered to everyone, it pretty much cancels out the whole idea of a special perk.

  8. #53

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    I tend to agree with tech skip, as well. I'm an AP now and it's not like I haven't ridden everything at the park like ten thousand times. I grew up at the park, spent ten years as an attractions CM, and now visit the park whenever I get the chance.
    I think it would be nice for the paying guests to have some time away from the crowds generated by the APs who make up the majority of the visitors from what I understand.

  9. #54

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    And this is where the comment came into play about not allowing AP's into the park until 10am if the park opens at 8am... give the Guests a couple hours to clock in a few Fastpasses before the Locals rush in. That seems like a viable perk. I'm not talking about Magic Mornings, which is select rides/lands. I'm talking about full park access for ticketed media only for the first two hours of opening.
    This is exactly the purpose of the new my magic+ that will undoubtedly make its way west. Tourists will get four prebooked FP+ tickets meaning that when they set foot in the park for the day they already have 4 fast passes that don't prevent them from collecting more. This will be a huge advantage for them.

    This comment is not directed at anyone poster individually but more the general tone/direction of this thread:
    Another thing that I would like to point out is some of the rude comments made towards the AP holders in this thread. I too am not a local AP holder and with our APs make it down 3-5 times a year for several days each time. We still have to pay for gas/flight, we still have to pay for hotels, we still have to pay for food. Just because we enjoy coming to the park as do all the other AP holders local or not, does not make us crazy or weird as it has been suggested by several posters in this thread. We are all here on Micrchat because on some love we love the park. We don't have to be on sides against each other the tourists vs the AP holders. Management gives perks to both groups and this does not mean they care about one group more than the other. Each group keeps the park running in its own ways. We don't need to attack each other about how we individually enjoy the park. I also dislike when anyone pretends to understand what Walt would have wanted and thought. But the fact is he created the park to loved and enjoyed by everyone. Okay this is all. End rant.

  10. #55

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Using your line of thinking, the ones who should get Magic Mornings would be 1 or 2 day ticket holders and not 3+ day ticket holders, because they are at the park fewer hours.
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  11. #56

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    Using your line of thinking, the ones who should get Magic Mornings would be 1 or 2 day ticket holders and not 3+ day ticket holders, because they are at the park fewer hours.
    Actually using my line of thinking the ones who should get a new Magic Morning (meaning entire park open but no AP's until 10am) would be anyone holding actual tickets. Be it a single day or a 7 day... we're talking individuals that don't have the potential to visit multiple times for a substantial part of the year.

    I realize there are out of state AP's but I highly doubt that is a majority of the population. In fact, given the popularity of the monthly payment program and the inability for out of state AP's to be a part of it... I'm fairly certain the majority of AP's are local. Which means the majority of AP's might buy gas, might buy a hotel room if it is a special occasion. They might buy food if they are there the entire day and not for a few hours. They might get a souvenir or a collectible on certain occasions. However they are not the primary audience. The AP program is a supplement. For anyone who wishes to argue that point feel free to explain why AP's are blocked out in favor of the visiting tourist. The tourist who generally has to get a hotel room. The tourist who will normally spend all day in the resort. The tourist who usually buys meals, souvenirs, and collectibles... because the majority of the tourists don't have the option of just coming back next week. Disney has enough of a tourist population during peak periods to justify having AP blockout dates. In fact they didn't "need" the AP program, they saw it as a potential secondary income.

    My point remains. If someone is willing to spend a substantial sum of money to be here and visit Disneyland, seeing a sign saying "hours extended for AP's" next to the ticket booth is a slap in the face. Magic Mornings don't compare to that. You're talking about select attractions being open for Magic Mornings, not the whole park. You're talking an extra hour, not two hours. And you're talking specific guests, namely hotel guests with certain packages, not the entire ticketed tourist population.
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  12. #57

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    I don't disagree with you Techskip. The park has seemed more crowded over that last few years and when I see blankets laid out hours before Fantasmic and people lounging around like they've done it a million times, I feel bad for the once in a lifetime guest (or even the once a year guest). I also have to wonder during the WOC show, while trying to peek between people's heads - how many of these people see this show several times a month? It would be nice for there to be some way for regular ticket holders to get a couple hours in the evening in each park where they get a Fantasmic show or WOC show and can actually see what is going on. Maybe they could do one night a week for AP holders and another night a week for regular ticket holders.

    Usually we are regular ticket holders who visit once every couple of years for 3 days (from Arizona). Last year we decided to get AP's for our family when we heard about the big ticket price increase that was coming. We hadn't been in 2 years and our kids were at the perfect age to get the most out of it. It wasn't worth paying the regular ticket prices for the limited time it affords you in the park and the pressure that adds to the trip. We decided it would be worth it for just 1 year to have that feeling of not being rushed or overly frustrated at the size of the crowds. I think that is what Disney hopes will happen - that families like ours will finally give in and get that AP for a year and try to get the most out of it. There does come a time where the cost outweighs the benefit and once our passes expire we are taking a very long break from Disney. As others on this thread have hinted at - if it isn't worth the cost to you for the experience that you get- don't go. And, we won't. It is no longer worth the ticket prices, food prices, and crowd levels for us. I wonder how many other people are reaching that tipping point.

  13. #58

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    Actually using my line of thinking the ones who should get a new Magic Morning (meaning entire park open but no AP's until 10am) would be anyone holding actual tickets. Be it a single day or a 7 day... we're talking individuals that don't have the potential to visit multiple times for a substantial part of the year.
    They sort of do. Magic morning plus the emptiness of the park in the morning. Sure its not an official tourist perk with signs and a large group of people excluded like you want, but crowds are light in the morning even with APs out and about.

    I have to wonder, is this really about wanting a few hours of less crowds(which you get anyway without having to shut anyone out) or is it about feeling offended by being excluded from AP hours and wanting to take something away from them. Oh and those AP after hours don't take anything away from the tourist so I don't see why you would want to take from the APs access to normal hours. I don't think APers feel a slap in the face when they see the Magic morning signs or seeing the hotel families having some early fun from behind the rope on MS. Plus, whether you agree on its effectiveness or not, those AP extra hours were designed for the tourist's benefit.

    We hear so much of AP sense of entitlement but this thread really proves the phenomenon goes both ways...
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  14. #59

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    They sort of do. Magic morning plus the emptiness of the park in the morning. Sure its not an official tourist perk with signs and a large group of people excluded like you want, but crowds are light in the morning even with APs out and about.

    I have to wonder, is this really about wanting a few hours of less crowds(which you get anyway without having to shut anyone out) or is it about feeling offended by being excluded from AP hours and wanting to take something away from them. Oh and those AP after hours don't take anything away from the tourist so I don't see why you would want to take from the APs access to normal hours. I don't think APers feel a slap in the face when they see the Magic morning signs or seeing the hotel families having some early fun from behind the rope on MS. Plus, whether you agree on its effectiveness or not, those AP extra hours were designed for the tourist's benefit.

    We hear so much of AP sense of entitlement but this thread really proves the phenomenon goes both ways...
    What he's saying is that AP's can go anytime. Why should they get extra hours? Didn't get what you want to do today? Then come back tomorrow! It's not quite as simple with people who only come once a year, decade, or even lifetime! Therefore, it would make sense to let the people who can't come every single day to get more time to do what they want to do and see what they want to see before they leave.

    As for Magic Mornings, that's a perk to staying at the hotels. With so many nearby and cheaper options, there has to be an incentive for people to stay at Disney, that's a business strategy. It can be argued that APs don't need anymore incentives, however. They're already getting discounts, and most end up saving money by going to the park more than three times a year. That justifies buying an AP in itself, but having a view of Grizzly River Run alone doesn't necessarily justify the cost of staying onsite. So Magic Mornings are a poor thing to compare to.

    You sound very bitter about it, and I know that not every AP is local or goes that frequently. But a lot of them do, it's just a fact based on DL's demographic.

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    They sort of do. Magic morning plus the emptiness of the park in the morning. Sure its not an official tourist perk with signs and a large group of people excluded like you want, but crowds are light in the morning even with APs out and about.
    Again Magic Morning is specific to hotel guests. What benefit is that to someone not staying in the Disneyland hotels or not part of the package? It's also select portions of the park, not the entire park. On some days the crowds are actually pretty heavy at rope-drop, so the assumption that "the morning crowd will be light" is exactly that... an assumption.

    I have to wonder, is this really about wanting a few hours of less crowds(which you get anyway without having to shut anyone out) or is it about feeling offended by being excluded from AP hours and wanting to take something away from them. Oh and those AP after hours don't take anything away from the tourist so I don't see why you would want to take from the APs access to normal hours. I don't think APers feel a slap in the face when they see the Magic morning signs or seeing the hotel families having some early fun from behind the rope on MS. Plus, whether you agree on its effectiveness or not, those AP extra hours were designed for the tourist's benefit.
    It was designed to appease both groups, not just for the benefit of the tourist. They wanted to make the AP crowd feel "special" and they hoped the advantage would also offset the weekend AP crowd numbers. It does make the AP's feel special. It has not shown a drop in the weekend crowds. If it doesn't work, then it doesn't benefit the tourist irrespective of design. What I am saying is that if anyone should be made to feel "special" it should be those individuals who spent a substantial amount of money to see the park and don't have the option to see it multiple times over and over and over again. I honestly don't think anyone specifically should be made to feel special. I think a trip to Disneyland in and of itself should be special. But I highly disagree with the decision to place a sign notifying paying Guests that the park will have extended hours specifically for AP's. It's a "thanks for everything you're putting in our coffers by the way if you were a local you'd have this extra perk" sign.

    We hear so much of AP sense of entitlement but this thread really proves the phenomenon goes both ways...
    I remember the AP backlash when Disney enforced the "GCH hotel Guests only" policy at the GCH gate for World of Color's opening. I've seen entitlement based complaints over and over again. I don't know if Disney could "manage" without the AP population during the off season. I know they'd see a decrease in the coffers. But I KNOW they couldn't "manage" without the tourist dollars. They have continually scrambled to maintain and expand those tourist dollars. Without those tourist dollars there is no park. Families spend a small fortune to see Disneyland once a year, to pluck down a day, days, or even a whole week. Yet who gets the advertised perk?
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