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  1. #61

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    "Nobody goes there anymore because it's too crowded." - Yogi Berra
    Last edited by Esteban; 02-13-2013 at 12:35 PM.

  2. #62

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Magic mornings are not specific to Disneyland Resort hotel guests only. Yes you do get magic mornings every morning that it is offered while you are staying at a resort hotel, but all Park Hopper tickets that are 3 or more days include a magic morning so you can still stay off property and take advantage of this perk.

  3. #63

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    What he's saying is that AP's can go anytime. Why should they get extra hours? Didn't get what you want to do today? Then come back tomorrow! It's not quite as simple with people who only come once a year, decade, or even lifetime! Therefore, it would make sense to let the people who can't come every single day to get more time to do what they want to do and see what they want to see before they leave.

    As for Magic Mornings, that's a perk to staying at the hotels. With so many nearby and cheaper options, there has to be an incentive for people to stay at Disney, that's a business strategy. It can be argued that APs don't need anymore incentives, however. They're already getting discounts, and most end up saving money by going to the park more than three times a year. That justifies buying an AP in itself, but having a view of Grizzly River Run alone doesn't necessarily justify the cost of staying onsite. So Magic Mornings are a poor thing to compare to.

    You sound very bitter about it, and I know that not every AP is local or goes that frequently. But a lot of them do, it's just a fact based on DL's demographic.
    They get extra hours because Disney wants to control AP attendance and foster more predictable patterns. Disney also does these little extras to cater to those who experienced the greatest increase in price of all the different customers they have: The AP holder.

    I am also not bitter about anything. I am not bitter that APs get 2 extra hours of DCA, I'm not bitter about magic mornings, I am not bitter that My AP costs more, I am not bitter about crowds(I personally think crowds are improving since 2011). The only thing that mildly upsets me is that APs get a few days of extra hours and now people want to take hours from us. Why not 2 extra hours at DCA for APs and 2 extra at DL for ticket holders? But no, the consensus was disney should take from us. Bring APs down rather than build the tourist up. And that, imo, is the bitterness in this thread. The "Why should APs have this" mentality rather than saying tourists should get this. You don't have to attack the AP program and its perks to get what you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    Again Magic Morning is specific to hotel guests. What benefit is that to someone not staying in the Disneyland hotels or not part of the package? It's also select portions of the park, not the entire park. On some days the crowds are actually pretty heavy at rope-drop, so the assumption that "the morning crowd will be light" is exactly that... an assumption.

    It was designed to appease both groups, not just for the benefit of the tourist. They wanted to make the AP crowd feel "special" and they hoped the advantage would also offset the weekend AP crowd numbers. It does make the AP's feel special. It has not shown a drop in the weekend crowds. If it doesn't work, then it doesn't benefit the tourist irrespective of design. What I am saying is that if anyone should be made to feel "special" it should be those individuals who spent a substantial amount of money to see the park and don't have the option to see it multiple times over and over and over again. I honestly don't think anyone specifically should be made to feel special. I think a trip to Disneyland in and of itself should be special. But I highly disagree with the decision to place a sign notifying paying Guests that the park will have extended hours specifically for AP's. It's a "thanks for everything you're putting in our coffers by the way if you were a local you'd have this extra perk" sign.

    I remember the AP backlash when Disney enforced the "GCH hotel Guests only" policy at the GCH gate for World of Color's opening. I've seen entitlement based complaints over and over again. I don't know if Disney could "manage" without the AP population during the off season. I know they'd see a decrease in the coffers. But I KNOW they couldn't "manage" without the tourist dollars. They have continually scrambled to maintain and expand those tourist dollars. Without those tourist dollars there is no park. Families spend a small fortune to see Disneyland once a year, to pluck down a day, days, or even a whole week. Yet who gets the advertised perk?
    Look, I don't disagree that different groups should be catered to differently. But what I do disagree with is excluding a group of customers during normal hours. Why not add hours for ticket holders? Why must we call into question how much APs do or don't deserve what they got?

    My point is DCA extra hours took noting from the ticket holders. So why take normal hours away from AP holders?

    And if were going to base perks on who spends, I would imagine that day ticket guests spend the least out of all types of customers. Only tickets and sales revenue goes to disney while hotel revenue(disney's biggest profit margin) goes to off sites or no one at all.

    But I don't agree with that way of thinking. I like the idea of everyone getting their own special things. With a million APs, Hotels filling up like never before, and people coming from all over the world, a little special something for everyone goes a long way for a park that has this much demand. Expanding magic morning to ticket holders and maybe giving them an bit of time at night would be great. Heck, open up the whole park to them like you say and you can please everyone.

    My real and only beefs with the whole thing is taking from one and giving to another and the questioning of who does and doesn't deserve what. I believe you don't need to do that to cater fairly to all the different types of guests.
    In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

  4. #64

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Doesn't everyone know that when Walt made his speech he was talking to two groups (locals & tourists)?? Read the transcript:

    "Disneyland is your land *glances at the locals*.....

    ... or perhaps maybe YOUR land *points finger at the tourists". The fact of the matter is that we won't know who this land is for until we run our annual profits report. Until then, best of luck in trying to outspend each other because at the end of this rainbow is a wealth of benefits for either one of you, but certainly not for all of you. So with that, I declare this inaugural Disneyland Hunger Games, OPEN!!
    Many Bothans died to bring you these fastpasses.

  5. #65

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    I just want to take my kids to Disneyland. It's that simple. Everyone wants to take their kids to Disneyland..... but these days it is just too much money for waiting in lines and getting through throngs of people. It was always crowded at Disneyland, there were always lines, but it has crossed over into the ridiculous now. When I was younger, you just watched the fireworks, there weren't people camping out. The fireworks started and... you watched them.
    We can't even go in October anymore without massive crowds and getting screwed by these Halloween parties. (Come on, the parties are for the AP crowd. Tourist's just want to go to Disneyland and not get kicked out of the park early after buying an all day ticket.)
    I want something to change so I can take my kids to Disneyland. If that's handing me some fastpasses right off the bat, then that might work; but something. Not saving two years to wait in line.

    Also, you folks on here are passionate about Disneyland, and that's good. Do you really want -the teenagers hangin' at Space Mountain kind of thing-? I've always thought of Disneyland as a special place myself.

    Also, I'd like to say that I truly appreciate all of you for allowing a discussion to happen about this, because in experiences before people want to shut you up when you want to voice an opinion about this.

  6. #66

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    They get extra hours because Disney wants to control AP attendance and foster more predictable patterns. Disney also does these little extras to cater to those who experienced the greatest increase in price of all the different customers they have: The AP holder.

    I am also not bitter about anything. I am not bitter that APs get 2 extra hours of DCA, I'm not bitter about magic mornings, I am not bitter that My AP costs more, I am not bitter about crowds(I personally think crowds are improving since 2011). The only thing that mildly upsets me is that APs get a few days of extra hours and now people want to take hours from us. Why not 2 extra hours at DCA for APs and 2 extra at DL for ticket holders? But no, the consensus was disney should take from us. Bring APs down rather than build the tourist up. And that, imo, is the bitterness in this thread. The "Why should APs have this" mentality rather than saying tourists should get this. You don't have to attack the AP program and its perks to get what you want.
    I live in Orlando now, and go to WDW often. So I'm completely un-biased in this argument.

    For one thing, Annual Passholders actually pay less per day than the tourists do. So there goes that out the window (again, this is MOST, I know this isn't all AP's, but why would you buy one if you didn't end up saving money in the long run?).

    The problem is when people like me who can go all the time are making it more crowded, more difficult to find seats for shows, and less fun overall for people who are here for the only time in a very long time, and possibly for life. Do you know how many people can't afford Disney vacations? That population may not seem high to you because the people on this board have for the most part been to Disneyland, but for many people, Disneyland is a dream vacation. When people have saved up their whole lives to finally go, it makes me sad when they're greeted by tons of people who can go any day, taking away from the value of their experience. Why should a family who has looked forward to this vacation their whole life have to give up their spot at Fantasmic for a local? That's not to say, of course, that locals don't deserve to go whenever they want...but it would be nice for the people who are treating their trip much more specially to be able to see and do everything, maybe by getting to stay at the park later with less crowds.

    Furthermore, tourists are paying way more on average than APs. I've already stated that APs generally end up saving money in the long run (doesn't it pay for itself in like three visits?), but tourists pay more per day. And they don't get discounts on food or merchandise, which they are generally using more of because if you're on a once-in-a-liftetime trip to Disney, you're gonna spend all day in the park and buy some souvenirs. So what more do APs need? Why feel the need to stay later in the park? Because you didn't get to go on Indiana Jones? But can't you just come back and do that later on in the year? I know the family who are here for the first and only time ever sure can't.

    Again, I'm a former AP for both DL and WDW...I never expected anything. It was nice enough to get free parking and get to go to the parks whenever I wanted. And I always made sure to not get in the way of people out of town whenever I could, because I know how special a Disney vacation (not a daytrip, a vacation) can be.

  7. #67

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    ^ Well said!
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  8. #68

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Excellent!

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    I live in Orlando now, and go to WDW often. So I'm completely un-biased in this argument.

    For one thing, Annual Passholders actually pay less per day than the tourists do. So there goes that out the window (again, this is MOST, I know this isn't all AP's, but why would you buy one if you didn't end up saving money in the long run?).

    The problem is when people like me who can go all the time are making it more crowded, more difficult to find seats for shows, and less fun overall for people who are here for the only time in a very long time, and possibly for life. Do you know how many people can't afford Disney vacations? That population may not seem high to you because the people on this board have for the most part been to Disneyland, but for many people, Disneyland is a dream vacation. When people have saved up their whole lives to finally go, it makes me sad when they're greeted by tons of people who can go any day, taking away from the value of their experience. Why should a family who has looked forward to this vacation their whole life have to give up their spot at Fantasmic for a local? That's not to say, of course, that locals don't deserve to go whenever they want...but it would be nice for the people who are treating their trip much more specially to be able to see and do everything, maybe by getting to stay at the park later with less crowds.

    Furthermore, tourists are paying way more on average than APs. I've already stated that APs generally end up saving money in the long run (doesn't it pay for itself in like three visits?), but tourists pay more per day. And they don't get discounts on food or merchandise, which they are generally using more of because if you're on a once-in-a-liftetime trip to Disney, you're gonna spend all day in the park and buy some souvenirs. So what more do APs need? Why feel the need to stay later in the park? Because you didn't get to go on Indiana Jones? But can't you just come back and do that later on in the year? I know the family who are here for the first and only time ever sure can't.

    Again, I'm a former AP for both DL and WDW...I never expected anything. It was nice enough to get free parking and get to go to the parks whenever I wanted. And I always made sure to not get in the way of people out of town whenever I could, because I know how special a Disney vacation (not a daytrip, a vacation) can be.
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  9. #69

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    However they are not the primary audience. The AP program is a supplement.
    I won't argue that this is SUPPOSED to be the way it is.
    But, I think a majority of the annual attendance figures is AP'ers. And has been for some time (2012 might be an exception, but I cannot discount the possibility that AP'ers came even more frequently due to Carsland -- why wouldn't they?).

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    In fact they didn't "need" the AP program, they saw it as a potential secondary income.
    I agree. But, the Program is has been a monkey on the resort's back for 18 years now. It is, "the source of every problem in Disneyland" (hyperbole trademarked).
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  10. #70

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    I live in Orlando now, and go to WDW often. So I'm completely un-biased in this argument.

    For one thing, Annual Passholders actually pay less per day than the tourists do. So there goes that out the window (again, this is MOST, I know this isn't all AP's, but why would you buy one if you didn't end up saving money in the long run?).

    The problem is when people like me who can go all the time are making it more crowded, more difficult to find seats for shows, and less fun overall for people who are here for the only time in a very long time, and possibly for life. Do you know how many people can't afford Disney vacations? That population may not seem high to you because the people on this board have for the most part been to Disneyland, but for many people, Disneyland is a dream vacation. When people have saved up their whole lives to finally go, it makes me sad when they're greeted by tons of people who can go any day, taking away from the value of their experience. Why should a family who has looked forward to this vacation their whole life have to give up their spot at Fantasmic for a local? That's not to say, of course, that locals don't deserve to go whenever they want...but it would be nice for the people who are treating their trip much more specially to be able to see and do everything, maybe by getting to stay at the park later with less crowds.

    Furthermore, tourists are paying way more on average than APs. I've already stated that APs generally end up saving money in the long run (doesn't it pay for itself in like three visits?), but tourists pay more per day. And they don't get discounts on food or merchandise, which they are generally using more of because if you're on a once-in-a-liftetime trip to Disney, you're gonna spend all day in the park and buy some souvenirs. So what more do APs need? Why feel the need to stay later in the park? Because you didn't get to go on Indiana Jones? But can't you just come back and do that later on in the year? I know the family who are here for the first and only time ever sure can't.

    Again, I'm a former AP for both DL and WDW...I never expected anything. It was nice enough to get free parking and get to go to the parks whenever I wanted. And I always made sure to not get in the way of people out of town whenever I could, because I know how special a Disney vacation (not a daytrip, a vacation) can be.
    You are an exception. And that's a compliment.
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  11. #71

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by jsanch2 View Post
    Magic mornings are not specific to Disneyland Resort hotel guests only. Yes you do get magic mornings every morning that it is offered while you are staying at a resort hotel, but all Park Hopper tickets that are 3 or more days include a magic morning so you can still stay off property and take advantage of this perk.
    Beat me to it!

  12. #72

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    As a tourist who visits the parks once a year these days instead of 2 or 3 times (solely because of the huge crowds, no other reason), I would be highly offended if I saw such a sign.

    Very highly offended.

    I travel about 9 hours to get to DL, and the idea that a select group has such a privilege just rubs me the wrong way. I'm not criticizing any person who has an AP, it's the program and even worse, the way it's administered that bugs me.

    I agree with some of the others who have posted here; instead of more privilege for APs, there needs to be more restrictions. Especially the monthly payment APs. If the present trend continues, eventually my distaste for the huge crowds will outweigh the pleasure I derive from the parks. Then DL will have lost a customer who pays FAR more to occupy space in the parks than any AP ever will.

    The sad part is that as long as the loss of tourists (or APs, for that matter) doesn't have a negative effect on executive salaries and bonuses, no one will care.

    Rob.

  13. #73

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Where exactly are these huge crowds?

    I must be the luckiest person out there because I have never yet been to Disneyland in recent years (last 5) where I would say there is massive crowds, longest line I've waited in was 45 minutes for Space the last time I went.

    I typically go in October, April or February.

  14. #74

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    From a purely mathematical standpoint. As an AP after your first few visits your admission is essentially "free" based on current ticket prices. If you also took the parking option, after your first few parking jobs that's free as well. So walking into the park after your first few visits as an AP... just parking the car and walking into the park... you're already a net loss for the company. I was an AP. I rarely bought food, usually visited for a few hours in the afternoon and rarely stayed opening to closing. Whenever I did buy something I used my AP discount, and I never stayed on property (or off property for that matter since I am a local). I suspect I more in line with the typical AP then the a-typical one. Simply put I never spent enough to make up for the initial net loss of parking and admission per visit. Again we're talking extremely simplified mathematics. Is it my "fault"... no... Disney offered an exceptional deal and I was lucky enough to be able to take advantage of it.

    All of that said. My choice parking spot was taking up the spot of someone who may have paid for parking. My walk in was taking the place of someone who may have paid admission. Disney barely made a dime off me aside from the initial upfront and the occasional beverage or collectible. As I said I was a "net loss" just by walking through the gates and not doing anything more.

    This is why if anything it is the tourist, not the AP, that deserves an extra hours perk. This is why a gate was specifically built for Hotel Guests. This is why Magic Morning was initially offered only to Hotel Guests and later expanded as a package offering. This is why World of Color has a Fastpass system that favors the Hotel Guest... because it is the Hotel Guest, and those staying multiple days, that keep the lights on. Sure I was a "super fan" and we had a great run, but how much did I honestly bring to the table from a financial standpoint?

    Out of state or vacationing AP's are a little bit different. For them visiting can be anything from a 3+ hour drive to a plane trip. Some come for the day (just like how we love to day trip to San Diego). Some overnight, stay over a weekend, or stay the whole week. They are also more likely to buy because they typically go less often. For them the main reason for an AP is the cheaper cost vs actual ticketed media.

    So when we talk about this let's be realistic. A SUBSTANTIAL part of the AP population are locals like me. A majority of them utilize their AP's in a similar manner to the way I did. You have only to look at various TR's on here to see how accurate those statements are. I am not saying the tourists deserve the perk because of elitist tendencies. I am saying based on simple mathematics based on any financially driven rewards based system, they'd be far more likely to earn that perk.
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  15. #75

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    The simple mathematics don't make sense? The majority of people are regular ticket holders. The idea of extra magic hours are to give someone a special experience. If they open up without letting AP into the park for the first few hours it wouldn't make a difference to that ticket holder. The number of APs there early in the morning are not a significant number to make that experience special to the average ticket holder. And if they did this it would make being an AP less special and therefore less APs, and therefore less money for the park. I would go once a year at best if I wasn't an AP rather then the eight or so times I do go in a year.

    What you are arguing is all business should give the massive majority the biggest benefits while the few that can be singled out as special are the ones to get the shaft. Like charging seniors and students MORE for a movie ticket while everyone else who just walks up to the booth pays less.

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