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  1. #91

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    A lot of cultural and tourist attractions offer discounts for locals - and I think that is appropriate.

    Tourist dollars bring a lot into the economy but let's not pretend that there isn't an impact on the locals. There is, in terms of traffic, services used, etc. As a local there have certainly been times I've been directly inconvenienced by tourists. Locals pay taxes that keep Disneyland running, too - all those roads the cars and buses use, the airports, etc. are funded by city and state monies. Locals keep the parks running, literally, since they work there, and it would be a shame if someone who worked at Disneyland couldn't even afford to bring their family to the park.

    What Disney does in regards to local discounts is completely in line with what other Southern California attractions do and what other states do. Go to Vegas, for example, and you will see one price for you and a lower one for Nevada residents. And why not? They should be able to enjoy what is in their backyard.

    Crowds are crowds. It's horribly crowded at Disneyland over the Christmas season, and most APs (and ALL of the Southern California ones) are blocked out then. There are days when ALL APs are active and the park is a ghost town. This constant bashing of APs and the vilification of them for using the service they purchased gets really old.

    And one more thing, about the "the price you paid should dictate the basic services you get at Disneyland" argument...forget the APs for a moment. How far do you want to take that? Should someone who paid $125 for a three day military ticket get less than someone who paid full price? If I have a one day one park ticket am I entitled to less than you because you have a five day ticket? What about the person who earned their park ticket or volunteer service, horrors, they didn't pay anything! What are they entitled to get?
    You're missing the point entirely, and though this isn't just you, a lot of people arguing against the OP are only choosing to read certain posts and not others.

    First of all, no one is bashing APs at all or vilifying people who use them. I have been a part of the AP program for Disneyland, Disney World, and several other theme parks so I am not in any way criticizing anyone who uses them.

    Yes, locals pay the price in high tourist areas (I live in Orlando, and also spent a good amount of time in SoCal). And I agree to some extent that they deserve discounts because it's a good incentive when you're a local and it's also a way to sort of pay the locals back after putting them through some rough times in the busy seasons (although, to be honest, these tourist attractions are helping your economy but we won't get into that).

    Here's the issue I, and a lot of others, have with the system (again, this is not bashing people who use it). When you're a local who has an AP, and paid a discounted price for it, you are actually saving money to go to Disneyland, and after a certain amount of visits, it's free! Not only that, you have the option to eat off-property, don't feel the need to buy souvenirs, and even if you did, you get lots of discounts. I'm happy for you and I enjoyed my perks (before I moved out of California) while I had my pass.

    But compare that to the family from North Dakota. They have never been on a vacation all their life, and they decide that the one place they want to go to more than anywhere is Disneyland. They save up for years and years. They put several hours a day into planning their vacation to come. This is the most exciting moment of their lives so far and they'll be surprised if they can ever duplicate it.

    The time comes and this is what they see...long lines, heavy crowds, and blankets laid out all along the viewing area for Fantasmic. They don't have as acute of an understanding of the FP system as some of the locals do and ride less rides than them. They may miss Fantasmic because of the spot-holding, or sacrifice a few great rides to hold a spot for it. They don't get to do all the rides they wanted to do. They missed out on a few shows. They got bumped into and stepped on throughout a lot of their crowded day.

    Feel bad for these folks when they go home? Sure, they had a good time, but could it have been better? Now everyone can't expect their vacations to go as planned but here's the kicker...they saved up their whole lives to go to Disneyland, paid face value for park tickets and food and gifts, and can never come back again, all to be disappointed because it was full of people who can come back the next day...for free.

    Now AP's have every right to come to the park, I'm not saying they should all clear out because the North Dakota family is coming for the first time ever. But, why do the APs need extra hours after the park closes? Because they didn't get to ride Space Mountain as much as they wanted to? Well can they not just come back tomorrow and take a whirl on it? Even if you're not a local, you no doubt bought your AP to come back more than once a year. So while North Dakota family leaves forever, the locals get to stay and play and ride the rides they've ridden hundreds of times before, and most likely not pay for the overpriced food or gifts like the tourists do.

    This is not about Disney's business plan; this is about what people think is fair. APs have every right to enjoy the crud out of Disneyland when they pay good money to. But considering that the daytrips begin to pay for themselves, and that you don't spend as much money on in-park goods, or spend as much time planning out your day, do you really think it's fair that you get extra time in the park when the once-a-year and even once-in-a-lifteime tourists have to leave? Now, if you think that you honestly should get more time in a park you know like the back of your hand that you're basically coming to for free, then that's great. But as an AP myself, I feel bad for the tourists who are paying, planning, and not taking it for granted. Maybe you do think that you deserve extra time in the park, but hopefully this little story puts some things into perspective, and the AP holders will stop being so defensive about this perceived 'bashing' and understand the real topic here.

  2. #92

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    Great Post Malina!

    Its sad that people get so offended when a perk is offered to a group they don't belong to(even if that perk in no way negatively affects them). Its even sadder that instead of calling for their own perks at no one else's detriment they would rather force APs to lose theirs, or gain hours at the expense of APs. IMO this jealousy is unnecessary but it says a lot when there are plenty of options out there to give tourist's their time that don't involve taking something away from someone else. But I have a feeling its less about avoiding crowds and more about resentment....
    This is probably one of the most offensive posts I've ever read on this site. Calling out people for being 'resentful' because you think you're a cut above other people really makes me sad, especially considering how many people don't take Disneyland for granted anymore. You should really think about what you're saying and who will read it, and read my post above to see why no one is actually jealous of you. Micechat should be a friendly place to discuss theme parks, not a place to call out people who have less resources and opportunities than you for being spiteful.

  3. #93

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Minor point for accuracy. Per Disneyland website, they do NOT open earlier to the general public on AP Extended Hours Thursday.
    You are correct...they open early for the other events I mentioned, but on AP extended hours days, the park is open the usual hours (9am-8pm) and then open an additional 2 hours for AP holders.



  4. #94

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    BTW, unless I missed something in the thread, the extended hours are two (2!), on Thursday evenings during the off-season, and are for DCA only. This is what people are arguing about?
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  5. #95

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gn2Dlnd View Post
    BTW, unless I missed something in the thread, the extended hours are two (2!), on Thursday evenings during the off-season, and are for DCA only. This is what people are arguing about?
    I'm not sure the exact specifics of these days, but it's the principle of the general attitude being conveyed here that is bugging me (though I can't speak for everyone else).

  6. #96

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by KellyMcG86 View Post
    Just throwing this out there - maybe there shouldn't be a discount for locals? Just have the Deluxe and Premium AP? Since it seems that it's the locals who stop by for a few hours, don't buy anything, don't pay for hotel, etc?
    Businesses generally offer discounts for one of two reasons. Either they are rewarding frequent customers or they are trying to encourage more sales. You could argue either side of that with the AP discount. It could be seen as a reward for continually showing up. It could also be seen as encouragement to increase spending.

    Obviously Disney is making money on the AP program somehow, or they wouldn't offer it. With these points brought up, though, it does kind of make me wonder how? I know on APs like myself, who appear to be in the minority of AP holders, they (and the local businesses) make their money back ten fold. But as techskip pointed out, the majority would be local and therefore with their typical spending habits bring in less?
    People often ask why Disneyland is so expensive. sediment put it best in pointing out the extreme differences in what individual Guests pay on a daily basis for the same experience. Take my example of parking my car for "free" and walking through the gate for "free". Disney didn't make any money on that from me. If I buy a drink or two, or buy a birthday gift, they recoup some of the initial net loss. So they have to make that money up elsewhere. That's when you see price increases elsewhere. The AP program is profitable in the sense that it brings in a crowd when Disneyland theoretically should be a ghosttown (off season). It's "less" sales, but sales are sales when there otherwise wouldn't be someone there. It becomes an issue when the group spending less outnumbers the group spending more. Blockout dates were put in place specifically to manage this. The reason it worked was simple sticker shock. If you wanted more days it was a higher upfront cost. The institution of the payment plan lessened the impact of the sticker shock. Granted not everyone can utilize the payment plan. But... if you want more days, it's now an extra $20 or so a month etc.

    Or maybe they should consider not offering benefits like extended hours to SoCal passes?
    The initial conversation was to highlight that if anyone "deserved" the perk of extra hours it would be those with ticketed media. Disney "hopes" to manage the AP visiting behavior by offering extra hours. Disney is trying to appease both "crowds". In reality it isn't having an effect on the Friday attendance. So despite the reason behind "why" they're offering it... the AP's are getting extra hours Thursday night and the tourists are still seeing Friday crowds. Since it is a "soft" closing, no one is actually kicked out at DCA's normal closing time. Tourists may or may not realize they're open past closing. However Disney wants to make sure the AP's know the park is open later "for them" and places a nice sign out front announcing it.

    Having to pay extra for things like the Halloween Party was a slap in the face enough.
    If you have to pay extra for things that were previously free that is a sign that the previous program wasn't making the intended profit margin. Remember things like the Halloween Party have a primarily local target audience. Removing the fireworks from normal hours and limiting them to the ticketed party was a way of encouraging AP's to spend money on a separate event.
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  7. #97

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gn2Dlnd View Post
    BTW, unless I missed something in the thread, the extended hours are two (2!), on Thursday evenings during the off-season, and are for DCA only. This is what people are arguing about?
    Actually I chose to point out that Disney is directly advertising extra park hours for AP's. And that said advertisements are right next to the ticket booths. I was pointing out that it could be seen as insulting when you consider how much tourists are paying to take in the resort.

    I then took that a step further and pointed out that Disney is maintaining a healthy AP population while advertising multi-day tickets to the tourist claiming they can't see everything in a day due to high crowds. So the tourist walks in having been sold on multi-day tickets and sees a sign stating AP's have extra hours.

    Irrespective of hard or soft closing, that is the message being conveyed to the "big spenders".
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  8. #98

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    This is probably one of the most offensive posts I've ever read on this site. Calling out people for being 'resentful' because you think you're a cut above other people really makes me sad, especially considering how many people don't take Disneyland for granted anymore. You should really think about what you're saying and who will read it, and read my post above to see why no one is actually jealous of you. Micechat should be a friendly place to discuss theme parks, not a place to call out people who have less resources and opportunities than you for being spiteful.
    Never said I was a cut above anything or anyone. It is sad and it does seem a bit resentful when people want to TAKE from others. That is key here. TAKE. AP hours took from no one! But people advocating for tourist and ticket holders...all of their posts either say APs dont deserve what they have, Should lose what they have, or should give up normal hours for tourists. IMO that mentality is thinking you're a "cut above." I mean this entire thread is basically, I paid more than you and so I don't think you should have X and I should get Y from you.

    Yes Micechat is supposed to be a friendly place and this discussion could have been friendly. But when every post says APs dont deserve this, or they should lose this, who is really being called out here? I know after being in this thread I feel a bit uncomfortable. Are people actually thinking like this when they see me go to an AP event? And for what its worth, the jealousy comment was not about APs being able to go all the time and tourists having save and pay a ton to get here. It wasn't about money or resources at all. It was about people literally stating in this thread that they were offended by the mere existence of the extra 2 hours for APs. That is what I am addressing. That is what concerns me.

    When your enjoyment depends on what someone else does or doesn't have what else do you call that? I personally find all this putting AP holders under the knife for inspection offensive and I agree with Malina that this thread is bordering on bashing. I just can't help but feel attacked when how much I deserve something is called into question. I can't help feel like there are ulterior motives other than crowd avoidance when not one of you have put up an idea that doesn't take or cut down the AP.

    Im sorry if it seemed like I was attacking those that are less fortunate than locals. That wasn't my intention.
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  9. #99

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    Never said I was a cut above anything or anyone. It is sad and it does seem a bit resentful when people want to TAKE from others. That is key here. TAKE. AP hours took from no one! But people advocating for tourist and ticket holders...all of their posts either say APs dont deserve what they have, Should lose what they have, or should give up normal hours for tourists. IMO that mentality is thinking you're a "cut above." I mean this entire thread is basically, I paid more than you and so I don't think you should have X and I should get Y from you.

    Yes Micechat is supposed to be a friendly place and this discussion could have been friendly. But when every post says APs dont deserve this, or they should lose this, who is really being called out here? I know after being in this thread I feel a bit uncomfortable. Are people actually thinking like this when they see me go to an AP event? And for what its worth, the jealousy comment was not about APs being able to go all the time and tourists having save and pay a ton to get here. It wasn't about money or resources at all. It was about people literally stating in this thread that they were offended by the mere existence of the extra 2 hours for APs. That is what I am addressing. That is what concerns me.

    When your enjoyment depends on what someone else does or doesn't have what else do you call that? I personally find all this putting AP holders under the knife for inspection offensive and I agree with Malina that this thread is bordering on bashing. I just can't help but feel attacked when how much I deserve something is called into question. I can't help feel like there are ulterior motives other than crowd avoidance when not one of you have put up an idea that doesn't take or cut down the AP.

    Im sorry if it seemed like I was attacking those that are less fortunate than locals. That wasn't my intention.
    I've said multiple times in all my posts that no, I don't think APs should have anything taken away from them. I think we all deserve to get the perks that come with buying our passes (yes, our. Like I've stated numerous times I am and have been an AP holder). I also think that the tourists deserve a little more considering their situation and, again, I don't see any attacking going on here.

    The thing to also think about is that by maybe giving tourists some extra time (the original point of this thread), they are not taking anything away from APs either. This is not a traditional event yet, and I think the OP's main point was saying that after testing this out, and maybe giving it some thought, this privilege will be extended to tourists like those pointed out in my little theoretical story a few posts above who would appreciate it more. Nothing being taken away.

  10. #100

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    After going last night to the event...i can tell you that if they made it for normal ticket holders...the event would sell out everytime...and then almost be pointless since many lines would still be like 30 mins + for the rides anyway

  11. #101

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    I've said multiple times in all my posts that no, I don't think APs should have anything taken away from them. I think we all deserve to get the perks that come with buying our passes (yes, our. Like I've stated numerous times I am and have been an AP holder). I also think that the tourists deserve a little more considering their situation and, again, I don't see any attacking going on here.

    The thing to also think about is that by maybe giving tourists some extra time (the original point of this thread), they are not taking anything away from APs either. This is not a traditional event yet, and I think the OP's main point was saying that after testing this out, and maybe giving it some thought, this privilege will be extended to tourists like those pointed out in my little theoretical story a few posts above who would appreciate it more. Nothing being taken away.
    The title of the thread is "Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP" You may not think APs should have anything taken from them, but many in this thread and the OP do. I agree the privilege of extra hours should be extended to tourists. I even suggested giving them 2 hours of DL while APs get DCA. They could alternate each day if they want. But that wasn't what everyone else wanted. Many in this thread just don't think APs should have it at all which is why they dont just want to extend perks to tourists like you and I want, but to remove those perks from APs because to them, this nice thing given to APs is inherently offensive.
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  12. #102

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    I wasn't ignoring this post I wanted to wait until I had the proper time to address it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    A lot of cultural and tourist attractions offer discounts for locals - and I think that is appropriate.
    agreed

    Tourist dollars bring a lot into the economy but let's not pretend that there isn't an impact on the locals. There is, in terms of traffic, services used, etc. As a local there have certainly been times I've been directly inconvenienced by tourists. Locals pay taxes that keep Disneyland running, too - all those roads the cars and buses use, the airports, etc. are funded by city and state monies. Locals keep the parks running, literally, since they work there, and it would be a shame if someone who worked at Disneyland couldn't even afford to bring their family to the park.
    Disneyland itself exists because of tourists. You could argue most of Anaheim has developed because of tourism. Yes you pay taxes, but a lot of your taxes are actually offset by tourist dollars. Likewise Disney pumps even more money into the economy by being the largest direct and largest indirect employer in Anaheim. As to locals working there and not being able to afford to take their family there... that's reality as it exists now. Disney offers the "sign-in" perk specifically because the pay doesn't come close to what it would cost to visit the park.

    What Disney does in regards to local discounts is completely in line with what other Southern California attractions do and what other states do. Go to Vegas, for example, and you will see one price for you and a lower one for Nevada residents. And why not? They should be able to enjoy what is in their backyard.
    Disney is in line with other states/resorts in the sense that it offers a local discount during off season. Vegas is both a good and a bad example. The shows discount is during non-peak times BECAUSE they don't want the locals crowding out the tourists. The special room rates are also during non-peak times so as to discourage crowding out of higher paying tourists. Resorts in general also rely heavily on the casinos, and believe it or not there is a substantial amount of the local population that gambles on a regular basis! So they are "spending", they are "bringing money in".

    Crowds are crowds. It's horribly crowded at Disneyland over the Christmas season, and most APs (and ALL of the Southern California ones) are blocked out then. There are days when ALL APs are active and the park is a ghost town. This constant bashing of APs and the vilification of them for using the service they purchased gets really old.
    The longest continuous AP Blockout period is over Summer. Disneyland saw a drop in attendance over that period in comparison to both before the Blockout had gone into effect and in comparison to after the Blockout had ended.

    And one more thing, about the "the price you paid should dictate the basic services you get at Disneyland" argument...forget the APs for a moment. How far do you want to take that? Should someone who paid $125 for a three day military ticket get less than someone who paid full price? If I have a one day one park ticket am I entitled to less than you because you have a five day ticket? What about the person who earned their park ticket or volunteer service, horrors, they didn't pay anything! What are they entitled to get?
    A discounted military ticket, or a discounted Costco ticket, or a discounted 3 Day ticket, or a discounted 7 Day ticket does not compare to the full potential of an AP. It isn't even close.
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  13. #103

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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    The title of the thread is "Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP" You may not think APs should have anything taken from them, but many in this thread and the OP do. I agree the privilege of extra hours should be extended to tourists. I even suggested giving them 2 hours of DL while APs get DCA. They could alternate each day if they want. But that wasn't what everyone else wanted. Many in this thread just don't think APs should have it at all which is why they dont just want to extend perks to tourists like you and I want, but to remove those perks from APs because to them, this nice thing given to APs is inherently offensive.
    The title of this thread, and the subsequent first post, lay out why if anyone should be given the extra hours it should be the tourist who doesn't necessarily have the option to "come back tomorrow". If this perk had been advertised for Guests only and you couldn't get into DCA with an AP after the posted closing time would you be offended? Irrespective of soft or hard closing, that was the message sent to the visiting tourist. Disney had a sign saying "DCA hours extended for AP's". It didn't just say DCA hours extended.

    I find it ironic that the Halloween fireworks were removed from all park Guests and made a ticketed event only and that's "a slap in the face". Yet someone can drop a substantial amount of money on tickets for a vacation and be greeted with the above sign and it isn't deemed offensive. If anything AP's embrace having the extra hours over tourists, and one even posted that had it been available to tourists the lines would be a lot longer...
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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    The title of this thread, and the subsequent first post, lay out why if anyone should be given the extra hours it should be the tourist who doesn't necessarily have the option to "come back tomorrow". If this perk had been advertised for Guests only and you couldn't get into DCA with an AP after the posted closing time would you be offended? Irrespective of soft or hard closing, that was the message sent to the visiting tourist. Disney had a sign saying "DCA hours extended for AP's". It didn't just say DCA hours extended.

    I find it ironic that the Halloween fireworks were removed from all park Guests and made a ticketed event only and that's "a slap in the face". Yet someone can drop a substantial amount of money on tickets for a vacation and be greeted with the above sign and it isn't deemed offensive. If anything AP's embrace having the extra hours over tourists, and one even posted that had it been available to tourists the lines would be a lot longer...
    If people want to be offended by the sign, fine. I don't get offended when I have to clear the park for halloween parties or have to wait behind a rope while watching tourists have a crack at the park before me. At least not enough to wish these people didn't have access to these features. Especially when I am getting exactly the amount of hours disney advertised on their calendar...Because like I said before, with AP hours, no one is losing anything!

    The thing is that to get what you want, the AP does not have to lose anything. Yet you and many other posters in this thread have made it clear that this is exactly what you want. Its not enough to want more hours, which can be achieved without taking anything from AP or calling into question whether or not they deserve it. For some reason you also want APs to lose their privileges and give up normal operating hours for tourists.

    Step back from all of this and I agree with you. I think it would be great for ticket holders to have some time for themselves just like APs got. But remember that AP hours took nothing from the ticket holders. Heck, I'd bet DL was devoid of most APs around the time of the special hours so yay for ticket holders! But many of the ideas in this thread would take away from the AP when in reality, that is not really necessary considering the other options which dont negatively affect anyone. Which is why I have to wonder, are there some other motives behind the sort of solutions put up on this thread?
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    Re: Anyone else think the extended hours should be for regular Guests and not for AP'

    Pinrar, the key to this entire conversation is access. If you take something away from the tourist, even if it is in words only, what recourse do they have? If they don't get on rides X, Y, and Z due to high crowds and no Fastpasses do they have the chance to do it tomorrow? When will they get another crack at going to Disneyland?

    Now apply the same questions to the majority of AP's. If they don't get to ride on X, Y, and Z due to high crowds and no Fastpasses, do they have the chance to do it tomorrow? Next week? Next month? When will they have another crack at going to Disneyland?

    What I have continually said is that if anyone deserves the perk. If anyone should be given extra hours. It should be the ticketed media that doesn't necessarily have the chance to do it all over the next day, the next week, the next month. I am not as compassionate about tourist AP's because they chose the AP based on price. They made the choice of AP over ticketed media. It doesn't make sense to complain about not getting a ticketed perk after the fact.

    The reason that late hours wouldn't work for tourists is that the tourist demographic is primarily morning based. That is why Magic Morning is so popular. But again Magic Morning isn't park wide. Imagine the reaction from tourists if they had an "extra" 2 hours in the morning, entire park theirs to explore. What more could they do with the lighter crowds? How many more Fastpasses could they get etc.

    Even if something is taken from the AP, the recourse is to go back... be it next day, next week, next month. In fact the entire purpose of the AP program is to allow you to go back, at a highly discounted rate.
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